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#480017 ME2: Launch Party Thread

Posted by Dark-Mage on 23 February 2010 - 06:05 PM in Mass Effect Series

The editor also has Kasumi available to be edited in, though I haven't tried adding her yet


Seen this on the bioware forums and youtube I think... If you try adding her into the game it causes errors, and might make your game crash. However, it is possible to have her in your party during the suicide mission. Her outfit and face appear to be nothing more than place holders, but the dialouge is there.

As for the Tali/Legion early recruitment, I saw some speculation on that being changed for the console. Kind of annoying, as I wouldn't have minded having to switch CDs more regularly (Yes, I'm a console player) but I actually like the structure of the game so it doesn't really bother me *shrug*

Some of the hidden dialouge is pretty good though, and I'm sure you cna find it all on youtube.



#479813 Surviving the suicide mission

Posted by Dark-Mage on 22 February 2010 - 09:49 AM in Mass Effect Series

Spoiler


Qwinn


Spoiler



#479794 ME2: Launch Party Thread

Posted by Dark-Mage on 22 February 2010 - 07:35 AM in Mass Effect Series

Finally finished my first playthrough, and... *wow*. I'm totally blow away. What Bioware promises, they deliver.


Congrats! And this is exactly how I felt after my first playthrough. Really was an amazing experience in my opinion. You been on the official forums much though? ... There seems to be a lot of haters over there.

Actually too scared to make an account and say I liked the game for fear of being flamed to death! I'm obviously exaggerating, for comical effect, but still :huh:



#479792 Surviving the suicide mission

Posted by Dark-Mage on 22 February 2010 - 07:31 AM in Mass Effect Series

Quick question regarding Mordin. Going to mput it in spoiler tags though, just in case :-)

Spoiler



#479789 Loves & Hates

Posted by Dark-Mage on 22 February 2010 - 07:26 AM in Mass Effect Series

Another dislike
- Having to buy Star maps, especially for the systems which contain most of the side missions. This just seemed, to me, like an unnecessary money sink in a game that has a pretty poor economy in terms of player wealth.

And another like
+ How I have to nitpick in order to find things to dislike about this game  :lol:



#479653 Zero Punctuation reviews Mass Effect 2!!

Posted by Dark-Mage on 21 February 2010 - 05:02 AM in Mass Effect Series

Yeah, he does seemed to have not hated it as much as he pretty much hates everything else.

Can see what he meant by scanning planets, but to be honest I actually liked that *shrug* Much better than driving that bloody Mako, at least.

My only annoyance was with him complaining about the game being too easy. Complaining about a video game, with an increasable difficulty setting, being too easy is just plain silly to be honest. Obviously someone who left it on the default setting.

But he is still pretty damn funny. Best opening line ever! :-)



#479563 ME2 News

Posted by Dark-Mage on 20 February 2010 - 07:16 AM in Mass Effect Series

Today's News:
Mass Effect 2 Deconstructed: Part One @ Critical Gamer


Pretty good article so far. He makes some good points, as do the comments beneath the article. More importantly, he draws attention to, and comments on, some of Mass Effect 2's short comings without being a complete douche bag about it. I?m looking forward to the next instalment.

How's your play through going, Archmage? Been able to finish yet whilst being distracted by the Winter Olympics?



#479508 ME2 News

Posted by Dark-Mage on 19 February 2010 - 02:22 PM in Mass Effect Series

I thought we *saw* Harbinger several times during the game, and he was a Collector... kinda looked like Pilot from Farscape. I thought he was the one we see crawling to some sort of comm station as the place is about to blow up in the end game.

Qwinn


Spoiler



#479506 ME2 News

Posted by Dark-Mage on 19 February 2010 - 02:19 PM in Mass Effect Series

Not so much wrong, as exaggarated, I would say. .p


Inaccuracy by any other name is still inaccuracy :-P

But yeah, I reckon calling it an exaggeration fits. His outright determination to make some kind of negative point prevented something silly, like the facts, from getting in his way.

And yeah, the Doc will explain her motivations in some dialogue, and the article had that right; she joined Cerberus because she wanted to serve on a spaceship.


True, she wanted to serve on a spaceship. A spaceship piloted by a sick patient of hers, and that was eventually going to be captained by her former commanding officer, but a spaceship none the less :-)

It seems a little like feeding a book to a shredder just to rewrite a few details.


Which is also why I used the term overkill. That explanation, which referred to game play mechanics rather than story, is pretty weak to be honest. But I stand by what I said, for me it just fits. I can see why you wouldn?t buy it though :-)

Also, as far as building an dramatic arc that spans the whole series, scrapping most of what happened in ME1 and dismissing it with a few character comebacks and a handful of dialogues...


How was it scrapped exactly? Sure, it didn?t dwell in excruciating detail on everything that happed in ME, but everything that did happen was somehow acknowledged as part of the continuity/timeline.

ME2 COULD have made something of, say, if you saved the council or not. It doesn't. The council only appears for a brief flash that contributes shite for the story.


A brief flash that acknowledges you saved them, and in return they reinstate you as a Spectre. In comparison, if you don't save them, and Made Uldina(sp) the Human councillor at the end of ME, you don't get made a Spectre again. At least, that is what I found when I started up the games 'canon' story.

It is only minor reference to past events, but then again that is all I was expected and wanted from a sequel.

I think the issue is, that in ME1 Cerberus was used as a standard faceless evil interest group whose reps you could riddle with bullets all day long and still keep a clear conscience.
In ME1 there is nothing to suggest there is anything redeemable about the organization.


That is true, and to be honest that is how I still feel about them.

So since it's not really foreshadowed in any way... I'm thinking the Cerberus twist may actually have been introduced to the storyline fairly late in the development of the game.


Here we agree. Read an interesting theory somewhere that the protagonist was originally going to be a Cerberus agent. I think, from that point of view, the Cerberus storyline fits quite a bit more. Then the role was shoe horned onto Shepard. I?m happy with the outcome, many people aren?t



Ehm. Counting in the longest estimates for the age of the universe, and the estimates for time it takes for life to develop at all... The reapers couldn't possibly have enough data to make for an acceptably thorough statistical analysis.


True, but Sovereign does strong suggest that this cycle has repeated itself quite a few times. That is still a massive ego boost, a confirmation of the Reaper?s superiority when compared to organics, even if not enough data is available for a realistic statistical analyse.

Therefore, being logical machines, they would start making predictions for eventualities, and calculating their probabilities accordingly.


Not if they did not consider an organic species resisting their plan. Which they did not. Even though his activation of the Citadel failed, making it obvious that something had changed, Sovereign still considered himself and the Reapers unbeatable.

Although, I suppose that could have been AI bravado, and in fact his attack on the station was motivated by desperation. Maybe he was scared the other Reapers would make fun of him that his turn at being the Vanguard didn?t go so smoothly :-(

I actually feel kind of sorry for him now lol

Because all they have is time and the stockpiled resources of entire species?


Most of which they spend snoozing.


Oh yes, I'd forgotten that. Yeah, it sure did sound like reaper influence. Except, um, wait. What? Have all life wiped out by bugs instead of wiping it all out themselves?
Hm, I dunno.


Tis just a theory, Virgil did mention that Sovvy was possibly acting out of desperation. Maybe he just wanted a distraction so he could get to the Citadel and find out what was going on there.

Oh, but somewhere you mentioned that Harbinger might be another reaper.
Yeah, might be, I had mostly focused on shooting him up thus far, but the way it leaves the collector general empty in the endgame suggests it might not be a collector.
And the possession system seems similar to ME1 endgame Saren.


I felt quite sorry for the Collector general in that scene, and yes I?ve noticed the re-occurring pattern of feeling sympathy for the villains. But still.

But MUCH less sensible from the POV of: "Where the hell was Harbinger when Sovereign was getting shot up?".
As pointed out in the article, a reaper double-team would have owned the field back and forth.
(And where were the Collectors then? even they would have helped. xP)


Which I also think was another inaccuracy of that article.

To be honest, based on the cut screen of the Citadel attack, I doubt another Reaper there would have made much of a difference. The article made it sound like Sovereign single handily raped the entire Citadel defence fleet, (When all ship casualties, except one vessel, can be attributed to the Geth fleet) And sure, it took out a fair few Alliance vessels in that battle, but it was destroyed pretty damn easily itself. And that was just a small portion of the Galaxies overall ship numbers.

No, even with Harbinger, Sovereign?s plan would have failed. Just like Harbinger and the Collectors launching their own attack against the Citadel also would have failed, since they would have lacked the ability to send in an infiltration team to disable the Citadel?s defences.

Hahaha. xD
Fun.

But no.
I can't specifically pinpoint who it is, but someone states clearly that there's no evidence of anyone ever having visited the scenes of abductions, not even DNA traces.


Maybe they clean up after themselves? They do seem to be doing a pretty thorough job on Horizon. That obviously leads the issue of Vicaar remaining undiscovered, which the game tries to explain away. I guess it?s up to the player if they find the explanation sufficient or not, I bet it?s no surprise as to what side of that argument I come down on :-P



#479490 ME2 News

Posted by Dark-Mage on 19 February 2010 - 12:25 PM in Mass Effect Series

The key points of the criticism were targeted at the startup, discontinuity, and the ending of the game


That they were, and if you’ll allow me to waft the wet flannel of weak excuses, I shall try to rebuke some of these criticisms. Or, in the very least, offer my own opinions on them. What you do with that is entirely up to you.

Also, there may be spoilers :-)

-Mysteriously a ton of old Normady SR1 crew has happened to jump over to Cerberus. Some apparently only for the kicks.



This is one of the instances when he was outright wrong.

With the exception of Joker and the Dr., all the other crew members are Cerberus agents/operatives. Handpicked by the Illusive man because they don’t have the same level of Xenophobia that a lot of Cerberus recruits do.

Joker gave his reasons for joining Cerberus, and I’ve read that if certain conditions are met the Dr (Can’t remember her name) does the same. Their logic/reasoning might not seem adequate to some people, but then to others they do. I guess that is why I love stories so much, as they are all about interpretation.

-Basically you start with precisely the same setup as you end the first game with; from a storyline perspective they could just as well have skipped the whole dying part and split up the old crew with more plausible plot devices.


This is true. The way Shepard is separated from the original Normandy, its crew, the systems alliance and the council, does seem a little along the lines of overkill. However, I think that beginning serves three purposes.

1. It demonstrates how vastly superior, in terms of technology, the Collector ship is. Outside of the marketing surrounding the game, this is pretty much the first in game hint that if certain conditions aren’t met then Shepard and his team are going to die. Bioware really does go out of its way to emphasis this point. They probably felt they had to make it extremely obvious to avoid any kind of negative backlash. I may be wrong about this though.

2. It allows Cerberus to establish some kind of ‘ownership’ over Shepard. Gives them leverage with which to force him onto this mission, kind of along the lines of ‘we brought you back, now you owe us’. This may seem a tad unnecessary, given the stakes of the mission, but when looked at the organisation employing this technique it seems like the kind of thing they would do, and would need to do in order to even get a Paragon/Survivor Shepard to even talk to them.

3. It also allows for the new Normandy to be introduced, with all the new rooms and features without having to add them to the old Normandy. I think that starting with the same old Normandy, but with all the new rooms etc added onto it would have been a plot hole/massive inconsistency... But, to be honest, even I feel this justification is particularly weak and almost didn’t mention it. Just tack it onto the end for sack of a completed picture, as it were.

-In ME1, Cerberus was a completely evil organization, feeding soldiers to thresher maws just to see what happens, and generally engaging in unacceptable behavior. In ME2, all of this somehow just goes away, and Cerberus is turned into an fairly openly operating group that actually paints their fricken logo on their ships. xP


Before I begin on this point, I just want to mention that I think there is no such thing as good and evil. Meaning, these two things are not absolute truths, but rather different points of view. Nobody thinks of themselves as being evil.

With that in mind, we were given a very negative view of the effects and actions of Cerberus, and I obviously disagree with their ideas but that does not make them evil. Instead, they are portrayed as a group who believe the ends justify the means. Sacrificing the lives of a thousand humans, and perhaps countless non-humans along aside is deemed a worthwhile cause if in the long run it saves the lives of 10,000 humans, or keeps all of humanity safe for a little bit longer.

Essentially, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
And this is still present within ME2. The dark past of Cerberus is very much in the minds of all your former allies. Anderson and the council stonewall you because of Intel linking you to this particular group. Ashley/Kaiden pretty much outright snub you, and the Illusive man sends you, a selection of his own people, and a team of aliens with varying expertise on a suicide mission. Knowing full well that the chances of any of you returning are slim, but it might just stop the abduction of human colonies and thus keep humanity as a whole a little safer for the time being. Like I said, the ends justify the means. That aspect of Cerberus did not go anywhere.

Cerberus does seem to be operating more freely, but for the most part, they confine their actions to the terminus systems which are home to a vast array of ‘dark’ organisations and societies. It’s not like they have this large team flying around through Citadel space. Again, for the most part.

Additionally, Cerberus is a secret society. The reason Shepard encounters such limited resistance to his presence on civilised worlds is because most people are unaware of this groups actual existence. Thinking back to ME1, even an Alliance Admiral had to go to the shadow broker for Intel on Cerberus, and I imagine that he had top security clearance. Anderson refuses to hand out Intel to Shepard about Banes, who I believe was a scientist linked to Cerberus... Not too sure aobut that though.

So, since few people know of their existence, I imagine that their specific logo/symbol is even less known. It, perhaps, has weigh in the Terminus systems and thus may even be acting as a warning to other groups (like the shadow broker) who are thinking of interfering with Shepard’s mission. Given what Liara tells you about the SB, that seems to make sense to me. Just thought of that whilst typing, pretty good idea I thought 

Mindless self indulgence aside, I’ll move onto the next point.

-The reapers have apparently left themselves with no viable contingency plans in case the citadel invasion goes wrong. This makes no sense. Reapers are supposed to be smart.


Reapers are also greatly arrogant and believe that no organic life could ever resist them or break their cycle. Given the fact that no organic life has done this until now, that is only going to fuel that arrogance.

Reapers are machines, so first and foremost their thought process is driven by logic. Logic based on calculations and previous evidence. They believe no race will ever discover the secrets of the Citadel, and be able to stop them. Until this date, no race ever did discover the secrets of the Citadel or were able to stop them.

So why waste resources on contingency plans when your Plan A will never fail? Expecting the worst, and preparing for that, is a very human characteristic. Based on past experiences, and emotional fears, we know that things can go wrong so we make preparations. A machine would operate differently. They don’t fear organics, they feel the secrets of their technology are safe, and finally, they know that their trap is perfect.

If the Ilos research station had not remained hidden, their trap would still be perfect.

You could even argue this the other way, and say that they did have a contingency plan, in the form of Harbinger. I’m pretty convinced that Harbinger is another Reaper. It could be hiding in the Milky Way somewhere, or perhaps it was controlling the Collectors from dark space.
Personally, the former option seems the most likely.

Sovereign failed to take the Citadel by force on two occasions, as I believe the Rachni queen hinted at their aggressive actions was somehow forced, so it could have been reaper indoctrination.

If not, then Sovereign’s only attempt, which was the calculated and flawless an invasion plan you’d expect from an ancient machine, ultimately failed. So Harbinger would learn from that force would not work, as Sovereign had an army, a back door onto the Citadel for an infiltration team and a Geth fleet.

-It is implausible to claim that the Collectors' modus operandi (flying about in a big damn mountain with atmosphere-burning rocket thrusters) would not leave any marks on the colonies they hit. It suggests implausible incompetence on part of whoever was investigating.


Throughout the game you are told Colonists are disappearing, not Colonists are packing up of their own free will and all simultaneously leaving their colonies. That kind of implies that they are being taken, which kind of implies somebody noticed the great big scorch marks of the rockets.

-With hundreds of thousands of colonists missing, the Alliance and the Council seem to implausibly not give a rat's ass.


It’s a purely human problem, so the council can’t get involved. The colonies are all in the terminus systems, so neither the council or the alliance has any real jurisdiction or powerbase there.

Also, since Kaiden/Ashley are sent to install defence towers, and they believe it’s Cerberus kidnapping these colonists that kind of implies that notice has finally been taken.

Think I’m going to stop mulling over every point in minute detail now, as this has gotten longer than I originally intended.

So really, the core point as I see it is, that the games don't really hold together.


But I guess that is where we will have to disagree. But like I said, stories are all about interpretation.

EDIT: I see Qwinn beat me to most of it. Oh well :-)



#479482 Loves & Hates

Posted by Dark-Mage on 19 February 2010 - 10:49 AM in Mass Effect Series

Likes,

+ The Story
+ The 'structure' of said story, with party recruitment being divided into two blocks. This, I feel, gave the game an ordered narrative without making it too linear. I guess I can understand the complaints about not being able to get certain companions first etc, but for me that wasn't an issue.
+ The characters - They are all rather well written in my opinion.
+ The loyalty missions - Again, very well done. Mordin's was probably my favourite. The story, and the music playing over important scenes. Very atmospheric.
+ The improved Side missions, though a few more would have been nice.
+ The Removal of the Inventory system, which was horrid and a complete waste of time.
+ The removal of the Mako - basically, the same as above
+ The new weapons, and the thermal clip system. Just felt better to me. Though I understand, and can see, where all the complaints are coming from.
+ The cutting away of all that unnecessary RPG fat, as one reviewer called it. Despite losing some of my favourite abilities from the original, I think Game play was vastly improved by the stream lining of the classes and abilities. It just feels better now, in my opinion, and goes to show that an RPG's Character development/levelling up mechanic does not have to be overly complicated to be enjoyable. Some people would, and in fact do, disagree with this viewpoint. Each to their own I guess.

Dislikes,

- The lack of credits, which I hope is an issue that will be solved with the Introduction of the Hammerhead and other DLC.
- Not being able to transfer thermal clips, or re-use them. You'd think that once it had cooled down it would be ready to go again... The game kind of portrays them as ammo clips, rather than removable, and universal, heat sinks.
- The complete removal of all internal heat sink weapons. Would have been nice if Bioware kept some of these weapons floating around in game, maybe to compensate for limitless ammo, they could have done less damage or something. Just an idea.
- The short romances. Three LTs just did not feel enough to me, but what is there was pretty good.
- Not being able to remove helmets. To be honest I paid more for the Collector's Edition, primarily for the Cerberus armour and I quickly removed it cause it just made cut screens and NPC conversations look silly. Vanity has a price I guess.

Can't really think of anything else, nothing that hasn't already been covered at least. Oh, and I stuck with the grenade launcher after getting the heavy weapons achievement. Cause I'm boring like that  8)



#479478 ME2 News

Posted by Dark-Mage on 19 February 2010 - 10:17 AM in Mass Effect Series

To be frank, I feel that Samus (or whatever he is called) was simply talking out of his arse for the most part. Any points he made that came close to even resembling a coherent argument were utterly overshadowed by his misunderstanding of the game's storyline. In fact, at times, it's not even a case of misunderstanding but rather a case of being outright wrong.

Maybe it's because I've thought about it and used my own conjecture etc, but I don't see any plot holes in the story. Things that have yet to be explained in full detail perhaps, but that does not a plot hole make.

For the sake of example,

Spoiler


Oh, and in regards to the final boss, Philiposophy pretty much summed up my opinion. But I would add that,
Spoiler


Just my two credits :-)



#479259 ME2: Launch Party Thread

Posted by Dark-Mage on 17 February 2010 - 09:48 AM in Mass Effect Series

Just finished my first play through, with a male solider, and thoroughly enjoyed it. It is better than the original in every way, in my opinion.

Was able to save everyone and finished with 49/51 of the possible achievements. Have no real nitpicks with the game to be honest, though the lack of credits was slightly annoying and a few more side quests would have been nice.

Was happy to see the removal of the Mako as well. Scanning is rather tedious, but was a lot better than driving that flipping thing around the same planet for huge sections of the game.



#477636 ME2: Launch Party Thread

Posted by Dark-Mage on 01 February 2010 - 04:13 PM in Mass Effect Series

I got my copy today. Was going to wait, due to other commitments, however, I found out that my local Game still had some collector's editions in stock so I grabbed one whilst I could, even if it was overpriced. Looking forward to seeing more of the game :-)



#474075 Comments on "Malleus Animorum"

Posted by Dark-Mage on 05 January 2010 - 09:41 AM in Scribbles on the Wall

Sorry for the late reply, Tempest.
I'm sorry to hear that, as I rather enjoyed your fic. I may not have commented as regularly as I could have done, but I always kept a look out for updates etc. Good luck to the DnD campaign, and whatever else you turn your creative flair to. :-)



#462863 Comments on "Malleus Animorum"

Posted by Dark-Mage on 18 September 2009 - 07:51 AM in Scribbles on the Wall

Hurray for education, eh?  :ph34r:



#461840 Comments on "Malleus Animorum"

Posted by Dark-Mage on 09 September 2009 - 03:31 AM in Scribbles on the Wall

Hey, Tempest. Just a quick note to let you know that I'm still reading and enjoying this story. I find your 'realistic' approch to the tale to be quite refreshing. Finally, the Bhaal dream was really well done. Keep uo the good work :-)



#449690 Comments on "Malleus Animorum"

Posted by Dark-Mage on 27 May 2009 - 09:34 AM in Scribbles on the Wall

Hey, Tempest. Just a quick note to let you know that I'm still reading, and enjoying, Malleus Animorum. Unfortunately I don't really have any indepth criticism to offer.

The way the story is progressing is good, and your battle scenes are well written. Looking forward to seeing what happens next. Keep up the good work :-)



#442555 Comments on "Malleus Animorum"

Posted by Dark-Mage on 05 April 2009 - 11:32 AM in Scribbles on the Wall

I liked the way you handled the Umar ruins quest, Tempest. Very dramatic read. What were the spells Umar used againsts Alexandria (the two cast in quick sucession) and Nalia (that bolt of negative energy) if you dont mind me asking?



#439353 multiclassing question

Posted by Dark-Mage on 01 March 2009 - 08:48 AM in NWN Series

haha yeah, sorry. I just clicked on the link on the main page and assumed you meant BG. My bad.
Mixing a spellcasting and non-spellcasting class isn't always a good idea though but I think there are some buold ideas out there to multiclass and still reach a decent spell casting level.

I wouldnt go as high as 10 levels in rogue, and a cleric/mage build simply wouldn't work too well as both your divine and arcane caster levels will be gimped. I tried in Neverwinter Nights in a PW and I just always felt underpowered. The rogue/mage concept might work though.

And again, sorry for the 2E rant :-P



#439304 multiclassing question

Posted by Dark-Mage on 28 February 2009 - 06:46 PM in NWN Series

The level pattern you described sounds like third edition to me, Gert Jan. BG uses the second edition rules, so you don't get to pick which class levels up when. Rather, the experiance your multiclass character gains is then divided between the two classes you have. They both level at the same time, however, your character will advance at a slower rate than a single class character.

If you wanted to duel class instead, with a human character, then it would be better to start with a rogue and then duel when you reached your desired level. Never really played around with builds that much so you will have to ask somebody else when the best time to switch from rogue to mage would be. Once you do switch though, you won't be able to gain any more levels with the rogue class and you wont regain your rogue abilities until your mage level reaches the point when you dueled. It could be one level higher, I'm not sure.

I hope that helped.



#439273 Shepard's dead?!!?

Posted by Dark-Mage on 28 February 2009 - 07:19 AM in Mass Effect Series

But wouldn't making every single choice, no matter how small, matter in terms of effecting the story of the sequel just result in a crap load of additional work for the game programmers etc? Okies, the small ones not so much, but the big ones like whether or not the human fleet came to the rescue at the end is going to seriously affect the state of the game world.

Personally, I hope that they just pick a 'canon' series of events, preferably the paragon path, and stick to that. Maybe using old saves for minor details like who Shephard was (in terms of gender, history and class) and some of the other less important events.



#439139 Shepard's dead?!!?

Posted by Dark-Mage on 26 February 2009 - 04:14 PM in Mass Effect Series

Suppose there is always the chance that the Geth(?) simply have it wrong on their databanks? They believe Shephard was K.I.A, but he survived the attack?



#439136 Least Favorite BG2 NPC!

Posted by Dark-Mage on 26 February 2009 - 03:09 PM in Baldur's Gate Series

Voted for Edwin.

Never really saw the appeal of his character to be honest. He is supposed to be a genius evil wizard but is most of the time portrayed as something out of a comedy sketch. Simply overrated.



#439134 Shepard's dead?!!?

Posted by Dark-Mage on 26 February 2009 - 03:03 PM in Mass Effect Series

They probably told us not to delete save games because of the ending of the first game. Depending on whether you are paragon or renegade, you make important decisions at the very end that I imagine will have huge consequences for what happens after the game. I don't think it has much, if anything, to do with Shepard.


Surely they are just going to pick a 'canon' path though, and write the story from that point of view, rather than writing two seperate stories based on your actions in the first game. So I can't see how our saved games will be used in that fashion.