I suppose Imoen's developing Bhaal powers is conditional on player's choices. In my present game that draws close to the end (105 game days, 5 days wandering around for dialogues) she hasn't had any.

Well maybe an evil character might want to give it a try  

I can understand why many may question the opportunity of a romance, anyway this
has to do with habits, education, culture.
But why on earth a PC, raised in Candlekeep with Imoen, without even knowing she was
his (half)sister, has to be EVIL to fall in love with her?
(Evilness/Love is an almost oxymoron, actually....)
Nobody here ever felt something for a girl who happened to be a friend?

Maybe you're speaking about straight sex?

It's more than possible they fell in love with one another at that time. That wouldn't be evil for sure. Trouble begins when you actually get to know of that.

Evilness/love - yes, quite right. But some amount of evilness and some amount of love is within every human.

My personal views on the subject are not fixed, my character is not really I in BG2. He has a different background, somewhat different personality he may have and generally his life is more eventful and more morbid than mine. As a paladin he's 100% unlikely to engage in physical if they're biological siblings. But if not... Who knows. Or would anyone be able to kill a true love within himself if it out of the blue turns out the soulmate is a sibling?

Another point is that Gorion had something to say about their upbringing. I suppose he would treat them as siblings if he thought they were. He would realise the love between the two as well and before they do even, being an experienced sage and harper. What about this?

En route.

Small only. Get the WinBiff tool from TeamBG and find the picture in ToB portrait file or give me your email to send it to you.

Mediaeval is quite nice as compared to modern one. Esp. legal. Designed solely to prove white is black and black is white...

UUU, 200% just in case, not dispellable, no resistances.

The pen is mightier than the sword, they say, so make a book that can be equipped as a weapon. +1 to hit/1-2+1 crushing damage, 10% chance of inflicting terminal boredom on victim.

Shall I write memoires then?

I think for an item to give 'equipped effects' it has to be (held) in a weapon slot or one of the clothing slots.  You could make it a ring; that should work.

Right. I hoped to avoid this vause the man wanted it as a book, but I think he'll swallow the pill and accept a cloak or ring Thanks

How do you equip a book? I guess items in one of the quickslots don´t count as equiped items.

Right. Even when I defined it as a wand or a scroll it still didn't count. Any possible way to set this straight without scripting?

Renmauzo: I hope it wasn't too close. Sorry if this caused pain to you.

Lady A: I also would feel more guilty for killing a man alive a thousand times than for killing him dead once. But we can't assume the man actually prefered the second way.

Hmm... Anyone thought what happens emotionally to those 13 to 18 might-have-been mothers when they someday realise the full spectrum of what they did / was done to them? Well, not only 13 to 18. Adult women are known to have committed suicide after thinking more about the subject. Cases of (partial) insanity happen more often.

If you deliberately kill someone who can't defend himself, no matter how you justify yourself before yourself or others, it will get you some pretty nice day. Of course if some feelings are left in you and there is only oneyou.

I have a problem. I've done a book for someone and everything works smoothly except for the equipping effects selected: +1 wis +2 int.

When it hadn't worked and everything I tried failed, I even copied the effect directly from other 100% working Bioware items and it still didn't work. All the data entered are obviously the same except for which stat to change and how much. I don't see any possible reason for it not to function properly. There are no additional effects to interfere with. I've been doing various customs for some time, but I've nevered experience such a thing.

I hope someone knows the case, but should you wish to look at it and try it yourself I'll send it to you via email.

I'll be most thankful for any help.

To handle the matter in a more realistic roleplaying fantasy word way, the pregnancy could be prevented -or negated- via the use of a wish.
What if we wished that the child was never conceived?
Would you call it a murder?

Prevented not, Negated yes. Do you feel any difference whether I hypothetically dismember you with Carsomyr or tell Nalia to desintegrate you (or to wish you ceased to exist)? Personally I wouldn't like either possibility applied to myself.

Edit: As for who the foetus could have become, I believe it's irrelevant and if I remember I've already said this. If you murder (non = kill) a murderer you are now colleagues. If we justify abortion in certain cases this will lead to further moving of the borderline as well as provide arguments for legalising euthanasia. Who then maybe? (RPG stat limit? 'everyone below sum total 75 will be kind to report to Royal Magic Labs for desintegration')

Who are we to judge one we don't even know much of if ever to judge a human being (judge a being because there are simply no deeds to be weighed). As you see, nothing religious, nothing political. Continue your discussion please.

Well, I did say that portion wasn't relevant. I agree with you completely. As long as its clear that it applies to the reverse as well: the reverse just being the argument that the aborted child could have been someone important.

Right. It was just general, not to (at ) you. And you're of course right. Hmm... as for the second part: many famous people in history grew up after being born in conditions that would encourage abortion were it possible then. Most artists did. Plenty of already born siblings, extreme poverty, no views...

Hmm... I also guess there are some people among us who know that by experience. Same to medical problems. And I don't think those people are disappointed with the fact they live.

Notice: innocent = not guilty of any crime against you. Next: A realy heavy guilt is to be followed by death penalty if ever (some people fight against death penalty, but for abortion - typical). Last: Who are we to judge one we don't even know much of if ever to judge a human being (judge a being because there are simply no deeds to be weighed). As you see, nothing religious, nothing political. Continue your discussion please.

Well, while certainly against the biological side of biological incest, I am not decided in this matter. It's a typical moral issue. But again, what is moral? Certainly my answer wouldn't meet with the expectations of an average 10 INT 10 WIS citizen...

I don't say by this that the average LG/10/10 would really disapprove of the sole fact. Actually in mediaeval times incestuous intercourses sort of cemented family ties, especially in Dark Ages and far from the Pope. On some isolated island for example . But he would certainly speak loudly against such pratices.

I wouldn't. Even if I decided not to follow this path myself, I wouldn't blame anyone for doing so, my being LG. Well, in fact I couldn't condemn anyone for this even if charname and Imoen were biological half-siblings (no more than half - just the avatar impregnating two different women, I'm not a libertine). It doesn't really look outrageous to me in this particular case. Outrageous would be only the possibility of my own doing this... Well, but no point pondering the last variant - I've just recalled she's younger and from other source, so the woman were different. Still we can't be sure about the body Bhaal used...

As for the roleplay part, I don't quite agree this should be a slower progressing romance. It's a sister anyway. Some things are already obvious, the links between the two established. They're also closest friends possible and this really counts. In real life there are lot of things you do with non-romance friends of opposite sex that you don't quite do until until the romance is developing swiftly. For example the very emotional kiss on lips with Imoen sketched by Quitch is something classified as romance activity, but in fact goes with friends (XY-XY excl.). In Late Roman culture (esp. Eastern part) for example it had no less important meaning and almost the same conotation, but was also used when greeting members of opposite sex if emotional ties were (pretended/supposed to be) extremely strong. Emperors and their sisters often did this. But again, single persons and not within one sex.

I believe such tendencies and activities may well be employed in romance options for the mod. Starting from this, and then gradually deviating (well, this is kind of deviated sign of friendship anyway). The more PC & Imoen do, the more they allow themselves to do next time as borders have innate tendency to expand and so it works until it's clearly not pure brother to sister relationship. And they could even realise they have no qualms about this. It happened sometimes when people for example fell in love with twenty years younger/older step siblings they have hardly seen before. Here, because they technically are no siblings, the incest feeling is even weaker and could easily be overcome this way.

But when within the avatar, he was still Bhaal, therefore there was still some element of him within every avatar.

The question everyone argues over is whether this is enough...

You couldn't be more right, Quitch. And this is the whole fun, I bet. While biologically not incest, there is a touch of incest to it... She's more than a sister sharing the Taint. Don't tell me people that this is not one of the main reasons you want the romance option. Myself included although I'd rather read the dialogue to have some psychological fun then act like an incestor (not yet decided ) to get it.

I'm afraid that being NG has very little bearing on it Chev. That's quite the generalization based on some arbitrary gaming rules.

Madam, do you thus imply that it is possible to kill innocent and remain good?

Just the fact that its arousing such debates is enough to leave the morality of it as a case-by-case basis. Don't agree with abortions? Fine, don't get one and keep your opinion to yourself. Agree with them, get one. You have no right to let your morality affect the lives of other people who think differently and have different opinions.

Now, of course, you'll argue the same towards the unborn fetus. Perhaps we can argue about the killing of bacteria using household cleaning products next?

Disclaimer: Nothing personal, no offence intended to anyone.

Raistlin: bacteria are not human beings nor even intelligent beings.

You state that if one's against abortion he shouldn't have one and keep quiet? Say this also to those who are for: have one and keep quiet. If it's allowed by the law, you do or not to and accept ALL the consequences of the fact WHATEVER they be.

And speaking of applying your values to other people: sometimes you have to. Wouldn't you intervene if two hugs were beating up a woman in your presence for example? What is this more than just applying your morality to other people?

And again I agree with Littiz: the matter is of whether you may or may not kill upon specific conditions. But you still kill even if hiding behind 'abortion' term. And good-aligned kill only if it cannot be avoided. Imoen is neutral good (notice: not much concerned about law) ergo she won't do that. QUED.

Sorry for three posts in a row, but I think it's better than one whole page long. I propose we establish another thread for this discussion. It doesn't really touch the subject of Quitch's mod.

Note To Any Who Are Against Abortion: Isn't it funny how Right To Lifers only care mainly about those who are not yet born/sentient and the elderly, when it comes to taking/preventing their life, why not worry more about people in the ages between who get killed elsewhere.

With your permission, you confuse two different matters. Go and blame Amnesty International for forsaking homeless cats.

And tell me nothing about the right to choose, please. You are always free to choose to murder whomever possible and then serve a term.

To topic starter: My apologies if this is too far from topic subject.

To anyone: Everyone is encouraged to PM me rather than hunt me down at topics. No need to involved innocent passers-by

I'm sure Immie kitty *likes* kiddies!
Why on earth should she love that egoistic swashy of yours??

Right. Abortion? She's NG!

I agree that characters shouldn't refer to themselves as thieves or
kensais or whatever..
They just can do something, or something else

Well, you generally know that you're a mage cause you've done some studies, same to priest who's been ordained properly... And paladin or ranger has a code to follow, so he knows who he is. Especially if he's talking about this all the time like me . You know you're a thief if you're hiding in shadows, stealing things, backstabbing and so on. Some kits are also chosen willingly only... Like Wyrmslayer or a spefic diety priest (dnd 2ed).

(Imoen melts into your arms, your lips meeting for...)

Quitch, what was next? Lip-kissing is sort of thing you do to friends XY-XY excluded.


Edit: Imoen, how do you feel about my being a paladin?

Edit2:

"Do I make you horny, baby?"

Yes! Yes! Oh, Bullajami, ever since we left Candlekeep I've felt closer to you... I thought it was simply because we were spending so much time together, but I think I love you. (Imoen melts into your arms, your lips meeting for...)

Imoen, how would you react if a fellow Bhaal child--particularly a Bhaal child you grew up with, like, say...me...made a pass at you? A serious pass, not just joking?

Ewww... I don't even want to think about it.

If those two go together and get along with one another well, I've just become the most sincere admirer of your work, Quitch, and I mean this. Really. And well, it would be nice if those appeared in dialogue or flirt option either (in jcompton's fashion). First the growing contradiction unnoticed by Imoen (9 wisdom, quite an innocent one ) and then some personality conflict. Or if she considers what she does with PC a... kind of play (and things DO happen and develop)... Well, it's just as fine. Whichever of those two (assuming that the latter was not a sister kind of loving together with sisterly lip-kissing), together with an incest or not an incest issue (my answer is BOTH if you ask) will make your NPC mod more interesting than any other.

Shame I hadn't come here earlier.

I'm helping with testing , so expect many bugs

I will

Sorry, Rennie&Sim. If it's not dull for you, it's simply not objectively dull, but only dull for me