Thanks for letting me know. I guess I haven't been keeping up to date.

I think that a good RPG can be made within 12 months providing that it's built around a pre-existing graphics engine etc.

This was the case with KOTOR 2, but the people at Lucas Arts were so hellbent on rushing the game out for Christmas 2004 that they were prepared to make any sacrifices to meet their goal. Some people might actually view the release of an incomplete game as acceptable as long as sales of the game itself reach projected sales figures.

Does anyone know the official sales figures for KOTOR 2?

I mean like the fire and ice damage effects seen in Icewind Dale. All we see in BG2 are pixelated blobs running up and down the height of anyone struck by a weapon that inflicts (fiery or freezing) elemental damage.

Interesting.

I haven't had a chance to try this mod yet, but what I've really wanted for a long time was for someone to replace those awful ice troll animations (which are basically shrunken shadowy versions of normal BG2 trolls) with the proper ice troll animations from Icewind Dale.

Also, BioWare went through all the trouble of putting proper glabrezu animations (from Torment) in BG2, only to leave the summon glabrezu spell (which summons a deadlier Nabassu) unchanged. When I summon a glabrezu, I expect to summon a glabrezu, not a nabassu!

Keep up the good work.

I'm still waiting for my thieves who can wear hoods without being forced to wear armour, as well as improved undead summoning (where I can summon zombies and lesser skeleton warriors who actually wield swords), and refined fire and ice damage special effects (the last refinement to BG2 alone will make a lot of BG2 fans happy).  

You know, I started replying, explaining why I wanted to do it and how it was not intended as offence to anyone sort of thing, and then it suddenly donned at me: I do not have to and I already did. I can simply do as I please, and what my writting ability, technical sophisitication and time allow. And the very last thing I want to spend all three of these very valuable to me things on - is on arguing about other people's moral stands on homosexuality.

So, would a female Tyler Durden be just as believable?

I couldn't empathize with Jade in Beyond Good & Evil, but I enjoyed the game for what it was nonetheless. How is Torment any different? You may not be able to relate to the main character, but that doesn't mean you still can't enjoy the ride.

How did you manage to endure playing as Tidus in Final Fantasy X, or do you avoid most Japanese RPGs whose main characters are male as well? Other than being given a voice with which you can steer the course of the story, again I ask, how is Torment any different?

I'd rather create my own character in an RPG setting instead of playing the role of someone else, but most gamers feel differently. Would female gamers like to play more games with female lead characters who aren't intended to be eye-candy for sex-starved male gamers? Of course. Will we ever see that day? Unless more women stop obsessing over their appearances and start playing more games, the answer is no.

Oops, the above post is mine, but I posted it when I wasn't logged in.

Then again Ms. Croft is designed to be attractive for your standard male-gamer.

Yeah, Core sold out in that respect. Lara Croft's original creator never intended for her to assume such an impossible figure. In the end, however, she was sexed up for no other reason than to bait in a male audience.

Out of all the characters, Grace is the one I can most readily see as bisexual...

I bet you're the type of person who would automatically assume that any attractive woman is bisexual. Why is that I wonder? What are your thoughts on the ever voluptuous Bloodrayne? What about the beautiful Maria from Star Ocean III?

Also, since Fall From Grace is a succubus, a creature born into existence for the sole purpose of tempting men into selling their souls, why on Earth would she swing both ways? Perhaps her darker half is bisexual. I would actually find the idea of homosexual urges being the product of an evil version of herself strangely believable.

Hell, maybe Trias is bisexual too since he's an angel and therefore must be "open-minded" about "matters of the heart". Yeah, I'm sure that God wouldn't frown on the idea of people screwing members of the same sex when human beings were equiped to procreate with the opposite sex -- not the same sex -- at all. *Rolls eyes*.

Man, I see that this community hasn't changed in the slightest since my last visit. How's the latest Viconia romance mod shaping up by the way?

I'll be cheering you on though, playing as an ugly male was what put me off of playing the game when it first came out. That, and the horrible cover.

Wow, how superficial and shallow of you.

Maybe if the game had Yuna showing her ass off in tight short shorts on the front cover instead you would have reconsidered. Oh wait, that was the front cover for FFX-2 which sold millions of copies.

Guys, I know that I am horrible etc, but I was wondering if any of you can provide an input on the following issue (PLEASE NO: YOU CANNOT DO THAT, BECAUSE IT IS A BLASPHEMY AND LIKE TOTALY DESTROYS THE UNIVERSE, BECAUES I ALREADY TOLD YOU I AM HORRIBLE!)

I would like to convert my PST game for a female Nameless One. I have NOT played the game yet, since I was put off by having to play a male and I am again facing the issue of not being able to play it with a male, so I started doing some changes and figured... why not?

Any information on why I would not be able to do it (key story points, engine limitations etc) will be appreciated - I do not mind any spoilers.

My plan so far:

Mortuary:

- Change Nameless One animation to FFG's animation
- Change Deheionarra (or whatever) to a male and rewrite her dialogue for a male; delete voicing (it's terrible anyway)
- See if <PRO_LADYLORD> tag will work and change all the dialogues that require it.
-alter Mortis dialogues

Previously pointed conceptual problems:

Ravel - will have to make her bisexual
Annah - will either have to make her bisexual or skip her romance
FFG will be changed to a male incubus (using NAMELESS one animation/portrait)

Where should I begin?!

Personally, I view PS:T as a game that tells the tale of a man's inner struggle for redemption. However much you might not want to admit it, men and women are fundementally different both biologically and psychologically. Besides, aren't women in general way too vain to tolerate playing the role of a zombified amnesiac who has the complexion of a shrivelled corpse?

Like it or not, the vast majority of gamers are male; I hope for your sake that you've prepared yourself for the wrath of yet more curvaceous scantily-clad female characters who have a nasty habit of posing for the camera at every available opportunity.

It's actually amazing how many games depend on sex appeal to sell themselves to the gaming public (games such as Bloodrayne, Dead or Alive, Tomb Raider etc). The only people who are complaining are straight women who also wouldn't like the idea of a female humanoid feline mutant with a waggling tail hitting on them.

Why not make Annah a man too?

You have once more selectively ignored Domi's point. Out of arguments?

I've made my case -- nothing short of Viconia's original writer stating that she was never intended to be anything other than heterosexual will convince you she is heterosexual. I dare say even then this mod would go ahead as planned.

Viconia's original writer is the only person who has any right to *officially* expand her original character, or make *official* changes. That's the perogative of whoever invented her. Domi's point is therefore moot. Adding a homosexual facet to Viconia's character isn't a believable expansion of her character no matter how well-written it may be.

By your logic everyone in the game is potentially bisexual simply because there's nothing in the game to prove otherwise. You could make any number of claims without any evidence to support it. That's inane reasoning by any measure.

All the evidence in the game points to Viconia being heterosexual. There is no evidence indicating she's bisexual (nothing). Now you expect us to believe that she is in fact bisexual? What a joke. The truth is the official Viconia is heterosexual -- nothing points to anything else.

Believe what you want. I shall be the first to point out that this mod is *unofficial* to anyone who believes it is an accurate portrayal of her character.

Also, just because I don't approve of this mod doesn't mean I'm a bigot. Victimize someone who deserves it.

If there's no evidence that Viconia being bisexual is either in- or out-of-character, then extending her character to make her bisexual falls into the former category. And I say again: it is not mischaracterisation, it is an extension. Calling it a "lie" is wishful thinking because you've got nothing with which to disprove it.

You started the thread, so implying that I'm wasting your time is not going to win any sympathy here.

Fine, continue to be hostile towards me then. Treat me as a blight on the community. I never realised that liberalism was so infectious.

As for your point, you're simply going back to the "if there's no proof that she isn't bisexual, then she could/must be bisexual" argument. Sorry man, but the burden of proof is on you. If you want to claim or want us to believe that the Viconia we all know and love is bisexual, then it's your job to prove it. Plain and simple. We could claim almost anything about her if there's nothing to disprove it. That is the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever had the displeasure of encountering.

I've made my case. You can keep deluding yourself into believing that Viconia is bisexual for whatever reason. Face facts: she isn't bisexual. Nothing in the game can lead us to that conclusion. Therefore, the conclusion that she is or might be bisexual is a complete non sequitur.

Longinus, you argue that one should not change the official charter crated by the Bioware to something she's not. Yet you said that writing a friendship path would be alright. As you know, in the official version of Biware's Viconia a friendship is not an option for either male of female PC. Is there something in the game that in your opinion would suggest that she would make friends with the PC under any circumstances?

I say that it's a bigger change in her character to allow her to be a friend with the PC than it is to change (or expand) the target of her romantic affection. It is a relatively small and unimportant change after all, not really requiring changes in her personality. This being my humble opinion of course.

I think a friendship would be far more believable than Viconia suddenly finding herself attracted to other women after years and years of exploring her sexual desires. If she was sexually or romantically attracted to women she would've expressed interest in them long before now. Also, this myth circulating the modding community that the vast majority of Drow are bisexual is exactly that: a myth. The myth in question probably stems from an individual's perception of the Drow, as no source material will corroborate it.

I support modders who do their best to keep their mods consistent with established canon, or as consistent as possible. This mod, unfortunately, can make no such claim.

I suggest you solidify your argument before you claim anything is a "lie", since you contradict yourself merely a paragraph above.

"The problem is from everything we know about Viconia she isn't." implies that the mod is altering Viconia's character.

"This mod aims to explore a non-existent side of her character" implies that the mod is expanding it.

Making Viconia bisexual would be altering her character into a lie, and expanding her character to reveal a side of her that never actually existed [before] would be the equivalent of lying too, as in it would be inconsistent with the truth.

As you are already no doubt aware, I don't believe this mod is true to Viconia's original character. I can't see how anyone can disagree with my stance. However, I'm not going to waste any more time arguing with you, so let's just agree to disagree.

Sometimes I wonder how many of these "guests" are just the same person coming back to the same thread to pretend to agree with him/herself and to add another log to the fire.  That's another common trolling behavior.

Personally, when I debate I never hide, but that's just me.

I have nothing against this mod since it's a new character altogether. If Lady Lefay planned to rewrite Keldorn into someone who after more than a decade of marriage suddenly discovered that he was attracted to men, then I'd have a problem.

The only issue I've raised in this topic is whether or not any paladin order would welcome a gay paladin into its fold. In the very least it's questionable even though most of the posters here seem to believe that no one in the Forgotten Realms would have a problem with homosexuality. Who is naive enough to believe that?

Why is it a shame, or sad to think of any character Viconia, Anomen, Nalia, or Minse (just throwing out examples) is bisexual or gay. It would break your heart? Why? Because it would mean you wouldn't feel comfortable romancing her even in the hetero mod?

If those characters were bisexual (for example), I wouldn't have a real problem with them. The problem is from everything we know about Viconia she isn't. This mod aims to explore a non-existent side of her character, which is something I don't find acceptable.

This mod is a lie.

Last time I checked, nobody needed to justify anything to you. They need to justify it within the game context, and that's done by altering her character.

If the creators want us to believe that this mod is a believable extension of Viconia's character, then of course they need to justify it, which as far as I can tell cannot be done.

If modders want Viconia to be bisexual for no other reason than that, then at least they are being honest. Saying that this mod is true to Viconia's character is laughable in the eyes of all but the people who want to believe she is bisexual.

My point is that Viconia is sure of her sexuality, if she was anything other than hetero then it would be shown, but it's not, so it saddens me greatly that this mod would even be thought of, and would break my heart to see so many people believing her to be something that she isn't.

I know how you feel. Like I wrote before, the tragedy is people will start believing this mod is a true representation of Viconia's character when nothing could be further from the truth.

...because he doesn't have an argument strong enough to refute the the real issues.

I don't need to refute anything. Judging from your post though, it seems as if you're doing everything in your power portray me as the embodiment of intolerance when I am far from it.

From everything we know about Viconia, she has no desire to sleep with other women. Can *you* refute that? No, I didn't think so.

I don't want Viconia to become something she was never meant to be (bisexual). That's all. Why is that so impossible to believe? Why must you vilify me for it?

...my argument has never touched on the idea of Bioware Viconia being bisexual. I don't know or care if she was intended to be.

So if the official Viconia isn't bisexual, then how can anyone justify making her bisexual?

Why didn't you post this at G3?

I probably should have, but I'm used to the community here. Besides, I'd probably find more support for the mod at its point of origin. I might be tempted to post there sooner or later, though I doubt that anything short of the hand of God will stop the creation of this mod now that it has gained momentum.

...considering that Viconia could be a more complex character than you thought is rather threatening to you and your ego...

About being a homophobe, that is indeed is evident; if you weren't the idea of exploring a possible different sexual orientation for that character or any character in general would not be an issue...

Sorry man, but I'm not afraid of homosexuals in the least, and thus, cannot be homophobic in the true sense of the word. Why does opposing the idea of changing Viconia into something she clearly isn't automatically mean I'm homophobic to you?

There's no point in arguing anymore, as nearly everyone is convinced that Viconia is in fact bisexual and that straight women don't actually exist. In the light of this blind and unquestioning acceptance it would almost be pointless to continue.

I think we can safely add Viconia to the list of official characters ruined by a modder's wanton desire to recreate those characters in their own image.

Hence, the suggestion of prejudice.

It's no secret that many men and apparently most of the women who populate the BG2 modding community would prefer it if Viconia was bisexual. Turning Viconia into something she isn't for these people who see a bisexual Viconia as ideal is a poor justification.

My opposition to this mod isn't motivated by prejudice.

Kelsey was JCompton's creation and not a rewritten BioWare character. It doesn't matter why he wrote Kelsey because he wasn't a bisexual version of an official character designed to titilate the masses.

So you're saying people's motivations only matter if they involve altering a character to be bisexual? That sounds pretty prejudiced against bisexuality to me.

That's not what I meant at all. What I mean is there's a difference between creating your own character and rewriting an official one to better suit someone's needs.