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#579717 The 'official' BWP Fixpack thread

Posted by cmorgan on 24 July 2015 - 05:18 AM in Mega Mod Help

Nice work on the Ninde/TDD dialogue stuff - rebuilding the TDD within her file and then looping back to s21 is a workable solution. I would never have tried to reconcile two very different approaches this way, but things look good - just may need to drop a line to the Ninde forum to make sure no one adds this as a fix for Ninde's files, as without TDD you are right - things will not  go so well if TDD is not istalled :)




#579382 State of the BG2 mod

Posted by cmorgan on 15 July 2015 - 04:33 PM in Valerie

Fiann speaks for a whole ton of folks out there, I bet... lots of mods with all that stuff. Not so many for folks who just want to play the game and have a simple companion :) Glad to see you are back; hope you have some fun writing!




#579425 State of the BG2 mod

Posted by cmorgan on 16 July 2015 - 01:08 PM in Valerie

My (useless) two cp is write what feels right for your character, and if your concept has changed, mercilessly slash anything you want and leave it cold and dead on the cutting room floor. All the film folks do tons of footage that never sees the light of day, novelists write, scrap, and rewrite chapters and scenes - even fanfic writers revise and edit (sometimes).

 

You don't lose anything by writing something and not putting it out for other folks. You gain something by having fun writing. Whenever you think your NPC is experienced enough or is smart enough to realize hanging out with the potential Next God Of Murder is a bad idea, shut that puppy down hard and *walk* *away*.

 

You can always add content back in or repurpose/rewrite it for v2, if you really like the story.




#579968 Solafein death variable search - besides SOLA

Posted by cmorgan on 29 July 2015 - 04:21 AM in IE Help

Ah, got it.. thank you - so the Solafein is probably a typo; check against the UDSOLA[01-02]. I will poke Jasty and see what she says/has dealing with Solaufein as well, thanks!
 
I can help on the banter file; Crossmod Banter Pack builds and adds the banter file if it doesn't exist
 
As Solaufein was the first (or one of the first) mods it has approaches that were based on existing knowledge and workarounds, things for him are decidedly "non-standard". I will look at the code, but I bet it will be fine to add the banter to either file; the conditions to trigger probably do need to be for either SOLA or SOLAUFEIN (hence the OR(2))
// Giving Solaufein a banter file
ACTION_IF FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~sola.dlg~
THEN BEGIN
	APPEND ~interdia.2da~ ~SOLA BSOLA SOLAUFEIN BSOLA~
		UNLESS ~SOLAUFEIN~
		UNLESS ~25FILE~
	APPEND ~interdia.2da~ ~SOLA BSOLA BSOLA25 SOLAUFEIN BSOLA BSOLA25~
		UNLESS ~SOLAUFEIN~
		IF ~25FILE~
END

ACTION_IF FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~sola.dlg~ AND NOT FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~bsola.dlg~
THEN BEGIN
PRINT @8 /* Adding Solaufein's SoA banter file... */
APPEND_OUTER ~crossmodbg2/crossmod_0_debug.log~ ~Adding Solaufein's SoA banter file...~
<<<<<<<< CrossmodBG2/Inlined/BSOLA.d
BEGIN BSOLA
>>>>>>>>
COMPILE ~CrossmodBG2/Inlined/BSOLA.d~
END
As yours is a "last in install order" mod too, Roxanne, you could modify that code and use the banter file; it only builds the banter file if it doesn't already exist.

It also confirms that we only know of two dvs for this NPC: may need to split that APPEND into two lines...



#580088 Solafein death variable search - besides SOLA

Posted by cmorgan on 02 August 2015 - 05:39 AM in IE Help

Well, good information and good ideas. I will see what we can do, but the easy answer is not to worry too much about it. The banters are set to fire if the associated death var returns true for both InParty and CD_S_NV. The OCD in me wants to fix this, but the realist in me says do due diligence and then move on. This npc and Drizzt are the only ones that have this king of trouble- both popular as characters and some parts/mods coded before we had a community approach.



#579975 Solafein death variable search - besides SOLA

Posted by cmorgan on 29 July 2015 - 08:10 AM in IE Help

Looks great!
 
Side note - Jastey's Solaufein is German-only, and uses C#Solaufein as a dv, but most importantly has independent banter file and J/P/X files, so no worries on that one. Her mod will be independent of the multiple attempts to put S in the game.
 
I actually just moved our code to behave more like yours.

You don't need the extra stuff for SoA only installs, because yours requires ToB to be installed, so you are all good :)



#580057 Solafein death variable search - besides SOLA

Posted by cmorgan on 01 August 2015 - 07:04 AM in IE Help

Thanks - I will go take a look!




#580124 Solafein death variable search - besides SOLA

Posted by cmorgan on 03 August 2015 - 02:47 PM in IE Help

That sounds right - not old skool "Best Practice", where you try not to take the top of the stack in favor of vanilla, but you are doing what amounts to a mod (Sandrah) of a mod (whatever npc mod interacted with) of a mod (BGT) of a mod (Mega/BiG/BWP) of a game, so you have to get creative :)




#580120 Solafein death variable search - besides SOLA

Posted by cmorgan on 03 August 2015 - 01:05 PM in IE Help

Nope, no worries - it is on topic, as it is dealing with the various incarnations of Solaufein, and dealing with them!

 

The simplest fix for detecting what we want to add to is MOD_IS_INSTALLED. It does expect the mod folder and requested component to remain stable, which *usually* doesn't change over time, but for most mods and modders this is a great way to go. For Crossmod Banter Pack, we are using it to detect materials that have no unique materials to detect, extending existing canonical NPCs without adding something unique and unchangeable

 

ACTION_IF MOD_IS_INSTALLED ~YOSHIMOROMANCE/YOSHIMOROMANCE.TP2~ ~0~ AND MOD_IS_INSTALLED ~HAERDALISROMANCE/HAERDALISROMANCE.TP2~ ~0~

 

 

Unfortunately, if multiple mods are expected to be included/detected/screened out, that means multiple OR and ELSE statements. So we retain old skool "unique items" or "unique .cres" but mostly "do both the dialogue files we add content to both exist", and rely on the banter engine to not call those banters as valid, as it expects the InParty and CD_S_NV to both be true in oder to fire the banter.

 

So... the only condition under which this might be a problem for another mod is if the added (useless) banters interfere with weighted states in that file. I took a look, and we have no problems. If someone installs a future joinable NPC with "sola" or "solaufein" using the SOLA.dlg we are fine because we do what Roxanne does: check for a banter file and create it if it doesn't exist, and add all our content to that one - if it exists, we toss ours on unweighted. Suprisingly, the only mod that might may need to keep an eye out for install orders is... Roxanne's! :shifty: Crossmod is usually a last-after-all-npcs, but Sandrah NPC is a "last of the last of all mods added onto a Mega/BWP install".  I don't have a BWP installed right now that even remotely covers the contents in your mod, Roxanne, and my bet is there will still be no issue, but just to check, you might want to peek at the file. Check to see what the weighting is - if it is just random banters you are adding, nothing matters at all, but if you are expecting a quest related dialog being fired off the Baner file instead of the Joined file, then that might be something to look at.


At least you know which mod might be doing something in that file. Worst case scenario, you just weight your materials adding to the banter file to put them at the top of the stack, and make sure thy are fully conditioned, and you are all good.




#579951 Solafein death variable search - besides SOLA

Posted by cmorgan on 28 July 2015 - 08:46 PM in IE Help

Ok, I am trying to run down what mods deal with Solaufein as a joinable NPC.

Standard Weimer Solaufein and jolyth's Solaufein Flirt Pack use "SOLA" as the DV. But I am seeing both Solafein and Solaufein used in existing mods as death vars as well; usually with an OR(2) to catch both sola and the alternate.

Does anyone know what other Sola mods there are out there that might use dv's other than SOLA?



#580593 Quick question about editing .tra files

Posted by cmorgan on 26 August 2015 - 10:23 AM in Mega Mod Help

You need to pay attention to encoding (ascii for regular non-EE games), and avoid using MS Word/markup; the best way to avoid having things mess up .tra files is to edit them with a code editor like Notepad++, JEdit, Crimson, etcetera.



#579059 NPC Banters with CHARNAME: How many?

Posted by cmorgan on 08 July 2015 - 06:36 AM in IE Modding Discussion

tl,dr - banters you enjoy writing are ok but mostly you should use the J file. Numbers mean squat. Write for yourself not for others.

 

[long version]

In my opinion, there is no correct numerical answer to this question - but there *is* a content-related answer. And a technical reason to keep banters limited to general fun scenery non-essential NPC/NPC dialog.

 

The "two banters for each of the joinable canonical (BioWare™) NPCs in SoA" guideline was set up by modders looking around at what others were doing, but it really doesn't serve a modder well. I use it because it is fun figuring out how to have one banter initiated by my NPC and one initiated by the canonical NPC - a creative writing and characterization exercise that I find enjoyable. I use that "standard" in crossmod content as well - it serves my sense of balance to think that two "scenery" banters to enhance the sense that the NPCs involved are independent beings with their own views.

 

BUT - writing a banter for an NPC just because that is "what is done" is a waste of your time and the player's time.

AND - writing multiple *good* banters that extend and clarify the relationships can not only be fun, well - no hard limit on that one! Go for it. 2? 3? More? Some mods do a MyNPC+Imoen = luv in as few as 2 or 3 side interactions in ToB. Others do lots more.

 

As Jastey mentioned, though, using banters this way (lots more) runs into some technical troubles.

 

Between IEP Banters and all the mods out there on a Mega and the original canonical NPCs using the banter file for some actual needed (and WEIGHT#) content, using the Banter files the way BioWare did is a very dangerous proposition these days. One messed up weight or an odd install order, and suddenly you will get bug reports that original content isn't playing correctly, or at all.

 

In addition, more banters, even with a shortened cycle tweak, means that there is much more content - and poses the risk that a player's time in-game will not match your expected outcome. Especially the one time, specially conditioned ones - they can end up hanging open and playing in a way you never intended.

 

So my "rule of thumb" is - If the content is side commentary and you don't mind if players never see it, B file. If it is triggered by a specific circumstance, area, or PC/NPC discussion, or if you need players to see it for plot/relationship development, J file with conditions and timers, triggered by the .baf, and with a rollback block put in place so that the following doesn't occur:

 

[JAHEIRA] Aran... get your hand off of my back. I know you are scared of the big bad Underdark, but  man up, dude.

[ARAN] Well, that blighted well figures.

[JAHEIRA] What?

[ARAN] We are in th' Elven Court, all in front o' this royalty, an' th' banter triggered.

[JAHERIA] I'm calling my agent. AGAIN. These independent film projects ALWAYS damage an actor's reputation. Have they never heard of the joined dialog file?

[ARAN] Put in a word for me, please. The accent on my dialog is atrocious. I want a rewrite.

 

As far as the "how many to make players happy", well... I'd say you can answer that one by google-ing what people think of mods.Better yet - don't. It might be demoralizing, if you are expecting your hard work to be appreciated :)

 

I like 'em. But the interwebz are filled with folks posting stuff like "ewww.... bad fanfic stuff and bad writing in my game! Besides, I wanted slash fic content with goth emo overtones!!" and "too much talk. I just wanted an overpoewered kensai. how do I get this npc to just shut up and fill a party slot?". Writing for fame? in an i.e. mod? Errr... Writing for fortune? In any mod? errr... Writing for a sense of belonging to a community? Ok, but you could do other things.... Writing because you want to tell a story? GO FOR IT.

 

So, just like the real world, I'd say write what you want, preferably as you play the game and think "so, in my head, I just had a conversation with my npc. Cool. I can write that out." or "Hey! If Jaheira just said that to Yoshimo, what would my npc's reaction have been? Would he/she even talk about that with Yoshimo?




#580441 NearInfinity

Posted by cmorgan on 11 August 2015 - 03:16 PM in IE Modding Tools

Heh! (By the way, thank you for expanding this tool - it is greatly appreciated. Things like the dialog tree structure, the ability to work on legacy BG all the way through BG2:EE, etc - I almost never use the actual editing tools, but just the ability to look at what is there and see how it is constructed, finding offsets, etc. - I have found it easier and easier to use to solve what I am trying to solve. So thank you!)




#579490 NearInfinity

Posted by cmorgan on 18 July 2015 - 03:47 AM in IE Modding Tools

Not for this user. I appreciate having a full-featured, actively maintained and extended tool. But then again I run an i7 with 12GB ram.



#580240 Love talk guidelines

Posted by cmorgan on 07 August 2015 - 11:01 AM in IE Help

I have a whole forum as a "blogging the code" exploration here: http://gibberlings3....p?showforum=159 but it turns out I should probably put up some kind of index if it is going to be useful other than through standard googling for specific issues. There are also tons of specific topic tutorials here, at www.gibberlings3.net, and at pocketplane.net.

 

Branwen (Kulyok's, not Wounded Lion's) is coded with comments in the code that explain what is going on. Several other mods use the same kind of detailed commenting, but hers gives simple clear comments aimed at beginning modders; not all of them do. Mine tend to be overly wordy; aVENGER_RR's Rogue Rebalancing has very detailed commenting, but not expanded on - basically labels what is changing, not necessarily why/what. Jastey's has comments that can help, but they tend to be in German :)

 

Numbers are way less important than you are weighting. Keto has no real romance track, and I think less than the number of friend talks you are talking about, and she is incredibly memorable. If you have a story arc for your romance that makes sense, that will give you a sense of how many talks you want to write. Chances are, "less is more, then expand" will be more helpful to you. (Most mod NPCs have significantly more talks and ith much more content than either the Canonical BioWare™ or BeamDog™ characters).

 

Example (plot points) :

 

Lady Chatterly and PC Romance Track

[INITIAL INTEREST] 1. you are interesting.

[DEVELOPMENT]    2. I wonder why you are interesting... you are not my usual type.

                                3. Hey, do you find me interesting?

                                4. Why do you find me interesting?

[CHOICE TO COMMIT TO ROMANCE] 5. Who else do you find interesting, and can I chop them up into little pieces and feed them to the fishes?

{beak point if npc is not interested in multiromance or pc says no then exit plot}

[DEVELOPMENT]     6. So, we are together. What do you think of things?

                                 7. I think I love you.

[RESOLUTION]         8. I am going to rock your world now.

[CODA]                     9. That was fun. I am glad we are together.

 

 

Some folks write the story, then try to turn it into a mod - others see a series of conversations (either sequential or non-sequential) with a goal of exploring either the NPC's or PC's backstory - but the closest kind of writing that I have found is basically a big "choose your own adventure" book, where the story has plot points like a screenplay, but at the end of the scene the reader is asked to do somehthing that sends them to a different series of plot points.

 

 

I run down the basics of The Great Vampire Caper in http://gibberlings3....showtopic=17039 . But to tell you the truth, the best way to really learn what is going on is to look at how several (not 1 - you want 5 or 6) mods handle it, starting with NI or DLCTEP and the Anomen or Jaheira files.




#580003 Looping Dialogue Problem in Watcher's Keep in ToB

Posted by cmorgan on 30 July 2015 - 05:27 AM in Mega Mod Help

Heh.

 

This at first glance looks like the vanilla .dlg - I will go recheck. But for some reason  

 

IF ~Global("HistoryTalk","GLOBAL",0)~ THEN REPLY #62788 /* ~Fair enough.  But how did you get here in the first place?~ */ DO ~SetGlobal("HistoryTalk","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 5

 

is either not setting the global, or not registering the global in the next pass through the state. Modders put several blocks between a global set inside a dialog and referencing that global in the same dialog for that reason - and usually avoid the problem by either using EXTERN to another file or just not referencing the global inside the same dialog.

 

I... don't know offhand what would cause a global like this not to eventually set and register...

 

...unless the .bat is picking up the original file and not the interjected-into file in override.




#579390 Imoen Bladesinger

Posted by cmorgan on 15 July 2015 - 07:44 PM in BGT Archive

TU is Turambar's prefix, according to the Community Modder Prefix list al BWL. So most likely it is from his/her tweaks and fixes mod, possibly for NTotSC. I think that is an SHS mod, but I am not sure. It might be in the misc mods section.



#579752 General discussion

Posted by cmorgan on 24 July 2015 - 10:00 PM in Almateria's Restoration Project

Cool!



#578967 General discussion

Posted by cmorgan on 06 July 2015 - 12:25 PM in Almateria's Restoration Project

[staff answer]

OK, cool, Lollorian - I have edited my post. My apologies for any confusion about updating. Thanks for understanding :)

 

Almateria, message rec'd loud and clear - your mod, your choice, your call. Official Translation = ALMATERIA SAYS NO.

 

Logging everything fixed up and moving on back to modding.

[/staff answer]

 

[personal answer]

For the record, Almateria, I think you should go ahead and load it up in the Misc Mods section without a bit of shame or remorse; Caveat emptor, et alii. It is very, very hard to erase a mod from circulation once it is posted *anywhere* online.

If you really want to try to make it disappear, you may need to contact Leonardo Watson and Lollorian and other Mega folks and ask them to remove any reference to it in the installers and any documentation they have.

[/personal answer]




#578945 General discussion

Posted by cmorgan on 06 July 2015 - 07:14 AM in Almateria's Restoration Project

I guess the attachment has srrved its purpose... Download while you can :P

I'll take down the attachmentwhen i get home :lol:

 

 

Thanks, Lol!

 

@Bill - private trading is something folks can do. Mod authors don't necessarily like it, but it happens (and folks like LoneRouge, Lolorrian, and I tend to collect what we can find) but the person you need to talk to about having it posted up it is the author, Almateria. She can put it up here in misc mods any time she wants :)

 

Most folks don't seem to mind. She does. So until she says yes, well...

 

...the ruckus does some publicity for the older mod.

 

 

P.S. - I want crossmod with Bannana. Or perhaps my ironmodder 10 entry.




#578923 General discussion

Posted by cmorgan on 06 July 2015 - 04:27 AM in Almateria's Restoration Project

Errr... much though we want to help deal with "lost mods", and way cool, Lollorian, that you keep a good vault of past versions, and everyone is trying to help,

 

 

THIS IS NOT A LOST MOD. THIS IS A PURPOSEFULLY "LOST" MOD

 

IT HAS AN ACTIVE AUTHOR AND MAINTAINER WHO DOES NOT WANT OLDER VERSIONS THIS MOD PUSHED OUT TO USERS.

 

PLEASE remove Thank you, Lollorian, for removing the posted file and respecting the modder's wishes to have folks upgrade not post this mod publically here at SHS!

 

 

I know that sometimes folks do "private distribution" of requested mods for individuals via email - some of the way older mods who have a decade of non-use, early Iron Modder entries and other mods that have no actual site presence, etc... so there is absolutely no reason to publicly post an older version of a mod that has an active author or maintainer without contacting them first.

 

 

A much kinder/better solution would be to attach a modified BiG World file for the user that allows the mod to be upgraded, rather than pushing depreciated versions.




#579271 Crossmod install failure with Ajantis and Tsujatha

Posted by cmorgan on 13 July 2015 - 03:56 PM in Faren

Also, let me know if you both want this moved to Crossmod. I am probably moving most of my stuff into that work, as it is getting tougher to deal with multiple mods. (Any way of coding it so we don't have multiples of the same banter would be cool - if the globals set are the same, it means only one of them will play, so from a user standpoint there is no problem with one being installed by a legacy version and a second identical one being installed by Crossmod.. But from an "add a bunch of extra blocks to search through" load-the-engine point of view, less is more.)




#580043 Continuous Jaheira

Posted by cmorgan on 31 July 2015 - 05:59 PM in BGT Archive

Well, to each their own choice :) Perhaps I should restate -

 

"for the past 10+ years, modders have worked with and added to BG, SoA, and ToB assuming that 1. parties are 6 (5+PC), Imoen is mandatory for BG2 plotline, The Game Ends When PC Dies, Many Players Divide NPC Pairs, Sarevok Is A Bad Guy, and Khalid and Dynaheir are toast at the beginning of BG2 - so they have written their plots, banters, side commentaries, extensions, quests, and all content related materials with that in mind. If you are creating these new things, you are expecting other mods to look silly while yours makes sense". For most things, modders can adjust pretty easily - 10 NPCs in a party, or stuff like that - extensions of existing content. Other stuff, like things that expect Jaheira to be a widow in BG2, mean comprehensive rewrites of both canonical and mod-added content, and ... heh.

 

Again, I am not saying "don't do this" - I am saying that if you want to erase all the crazy plot holes, it is like chasing your tail. An endless loop.

 

Your tail to chase, of course - and it can be a lot of fun doing things like creating "Continuous Jaheria" or fixing and making a better "Continuous Imoen", making the game keep going after Player1 has dies (that *really* screws with mod-added NPC's, as there is no DV check for the Player1D stuff - unles the trick is to basically min-hp Player1 and keep him/her technically "alive" while showing him as dead. I wonder what happens when a PID is triggered by a shell-scripted NPC as Player1? Hmmm.... that sounds like a fun thing to test out...)




#580179 Continuous Jaheira

Posted by cmorgan on 05 August 2015 - 06:04 AM in BGT Archive

tl; dr - Definitely not trolling - apt analysis. Direct parallel - Shep vs <CHARNAME>. They even have the same plot-mandtory "game over on player1 death" - a pretty universal BioWare concept, and one of the few things that give players some sense of actual consequence for actions.

 

 

the "too long" part -

 

ME[1,2,3], DAO, etc. have one basic premise that the player is at the center of the game. In ME[1,2,3] a regular combat can only end in a reload by a player death; your "team" can die in combat and then be up and ok, but if Shep/FemShep dies, reload is prompted. There, like in BG, is patently silly to have Player1 replaced by an in-game NPC. For BG, they are not the Bhaalspawn... in game terms, in plot term, and in story terms, Player1 survivies to fulfill destiny, or the game is pointless - "Jaheria has a hidden secret - she is actually Neo/Shephard/Bhallspawn, and the game up until this point is really a trick!" [The Dallas TV show syndrome - recast an entire season as a dream so that the plot can actually continue after the writers have written themselves into an untenable situation]. The only way it makes sense is if the player1 situation can be reolved at the end of combat with ressurection - but even then, the whole point is that the essence of Bhaal is *released by killing a bhaalspawn*. So no matter how you justify it, you can't have player1 die in BG/SoA/ToB.

 

BUT in ME[1,2 and to an extremely limited extent 3] if a quest requires a "joinable" NPC or a plot "non-joinable" NPC death, the game consequences are carried through with a clone of the bit-player's plot, a new quest giver, and a slight tweak to the existing sub-plot. This means that the overall gist of the game is relatively immune from Plaer Choice™. It means that the player is re-cast from the lead in an interactive movie, to a script director in an interactive movie. The actor's choices have consequences for the way the story plays out, but the same basic "scenery" elements ae brought to play for each and every actor in places where player choice matters long-term; "forced choice points" that are needed to advance the story remain in play even if the player does something like wipe out a plot-needed character.

 

SO, the crux of the matter is why change the story elements that were put into place in the first place. We modders have answered that question -  because the ruleset is not a satisfactory replication of 2E rules; because there are bugs that were never addressed; because there is a subplot or experience that will enhance the regular story; because the modder in question feels the self-empowering need to insert their demi-god MarySue/Stu and have a story where Harry Potter is a bit-player foil to Ron or Hermione rather than Harry; because the game world needs more scenery and differnt ways of interaction; even simply "because we can". But from a storytelling standpoint, the story can only be warped and changed in specific ways before it is not the story, but a completely new one. We are not talking about just massive hi-jacking of plot like Saerileth and Chloe, where the Goddesses are the real players and "player1" is basically along for the ride left to marvel in the wonder that is a 15 year old etra-planar Paladin - we are talking about changing an *imperative to plot development* element, because we can.

 

So, if you completely rewrite the story plot points removing Khalid's death, you now have a completely different movie for Jaheira, and any other mod that expects that event to occur (which is any story mod out there - unless it is a fixpack or ruleset or item mod, it expects that point). Ditto Imoen's involvement. Doable? Probably - with enough time and effort, you could even rewrite BG to have a completely different cast of characters, and an altered storyline that has no Bhaalspawn plot at all. You could even use the basic engine and set up a completely different game - AND WE HAVE!! "Total Conversions" like Classic Adventures!

 

Is that a bad thing, that we technically can completely change the experience and plot and redirect atention from individual NPC story development in favor of a "Jaheria dies and is replaced by her Twin Sister Aheiraj, but she is clobbered so a random blue cloaked NPC named Heiraja steps in..."? Well, for some players, it is completely ridiculous, and they would never play a mod that warped the core experience of the game that way. (By the way, that same statement has been used about the Fixpack, BGT, and even adding NPC mods to an install). For other players, it would be the best thing since Betty White (she came along before Sliced Bread, so the old catchphrase needs updating).

 

In this day and age of http://www.goodreads...ritten-classics "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies", and the lack of a large and engaged modder base, it is hard to say no to any idea in concept. So if a modder really wants to rewrite the game this way, it is their time and energy, and the reward will be the time and energy spent and the addition to their own game. After all, ME is still a playable popular game, even though they "cheat" by dumping individual NPC development and backstory and importance by creating

 

{ J aheria | A heiraj |  H eiraja | E irajah | I rajahe | R ajahei | A jaheir  - creeeeepyyyyy! :)

 

For me, I'd rather play with well-developed new NPCs, or new quests that relate to the main plot. But I am not you. I think it is tough put a value judgement on these things any more.




#580028 Continuous Jaheira

Posted by cmorgan on 31 July 2015 - 06:45 AM in BGT Archive

It is FR. Someone comes along and raises the dead. Tazok, anyone? Keeping Yoshimo mod? Smiling Imp's Joinable BG1 NPC's in BG2? Lots of the mod-added NPCs are built around the unchangeable plot points by necessity as well as by choice. But players are very used to the inconsitencies.

 

The reason to not deal with this is because you have to entirely rewrite BG2 if you try to keep internal consistency between the games reflecting each possible ending that a player could generate. The most obvious one is Imoen. Some players execute her almost immediately in BG1. So... rewrite BG2... without Imoen. And break internal consistency with all of the NPC and romance mods out there, because if there are two absolutes in BG2, it is that Player1 will survive until the end (game over on Player1 death causes reload to complete the story) and Imoen is a permanent part of the BG2 plot.

 

I'm not saying that Vlad's idea isn't a good one, a logical one - I am saying there is a reason why most folks accept the plot holes, because this is a fantasy that requires a structural plotline.

 

And from a functional standpoint, the two most commonly reported player activities are 1. multi-romancing and 2. walking Khalid (or any member of a pair) into a building while the rest of the party waits outside, dropping him, and going outside, so that the regular "pairs are inseparable" triggers fail, so that they get the party slot opened and still keep the one member of the pair they want.

 

Consider this - the real answer to the bhaalspawn saga is simple. Mellisan searches out each bhaalspawn, hires the Shadow Masks or another assassin's guild, sits back, and wins. Of course, the entore game would have ended in the first cutscene of BG... with the added image of a knife being stuck in the Armored Figure's back and him falling off the tower, too. We probably are better off creating more opportunities to allow players to justify the plot holes than try to fix them.