Heya,

Well actually...

BG2 is basically what could be termed an interactive story. It shares many traits in common with a normal ordinary book. It has a begining, it has a middle, it has an end. It has a central plot that forms the backbone for the story that you can't really deviate from.

It doesn't matter if you're playing a good, a neutral, or an evil character. Your motivations might be different, but you still do the same things. Get out of dungeon, pick up a party, raise money, rescue Imoen (regardless of motivation, you can't avoid rescuing her), travel through the Underdark, help the elves of Suldanessellar, and ultimately confront Irenicus. THE END (unless you have ToB, which just extends the storyline.)

What modders are doing is basically adding options to the main plot. Extra quests, NPCs, tweaks to game mechanics etc... You can't turn BG2 into an MMORPG style of game, because like all stories... it has an end.

The only way to do it, is to make a TC of BG2 which removes the main storyline.

You're better off playing around with the Aurora Toolset... Plenty of people have tried to make Persistant worlds using it. I couldn't tell you how many succeeded, because frankly I don't know. The ones I played during the early days of NWN modding, were, quite frankly, boring. There wasn't anything much to do (except kill monsters or even *gasp* craft! ), and the only persistance about them was that their owners didn't take them down.

(And if you're not really interested in modding, you could just try playing an MMORPG.)

Heya,

Err, guys... We are talking about an average stat of 10 for your common person. What's with all these sub 10s? Are we trying to do reverse "cheating"?

To the poster with 2 strength... You realise that 3 is as low as you can go with a human, don't you? Stats are rolled on 3d6, minimum you can get is 3 without racial adjustments.

Strength 2: -3 to hit, -2 to damage, weight allowance 1lbs, max press 5lbs, open door 1, BB/LG 0%.

to translate.. 1lbs = 0.4545... kg. 5lbs = 2.272kg

Strength 10: no to hit, no to damage, weight allowance 40lbs, max press 115lbs, open door 6, BB/LG 2%

40lbs = 18kg, 115lbs = 52.27kg

A 20kg dog is not exactly the easiest thing to carry, it's a living being and will struggle, and you can't stick it across your shoulders or otherwise more evenly distribute its weight. You could probably put your strength around the 6 mark if it makes you feel better.

My real life stats, being honest and taking into account that 10 is average...

Str: 8 - I'm not as strong as I could be, below average.
Dex: 12 - I can hit a fairly small target with a small thrown object, am not overly klutzy
Con: 10 - Average
Int: 13-14 - my IQ is somewhere between 130 and 140.
Wis: 12 - people have called me wise, but I have a quick temper which partially counters that.
Cha: 14 - people just seem to like me, and want to confide in me - don't know why that is.

Concidering the last time I took the what DnD class are you test and came out as a NG Elven Bard-Mage of Mystra, I think that fits.

Heya,

The War of the Spider Queen series takes place in the current game year of the Realms, which is 1372 DR (Year of Wild Magic). Information about what's happend thus far in the War can be found in the Player's Guide to Faerun, pg 170.

The Time of Trouble was 1358 DR (Year of Shadows)
The Baldur's Gate I novel occured in 1368 DR (Year of the Banner)
The Baldur's Gate II novels occured in 1369 DR (Year of the Gauntlet)

Heya,

That's what I originally thought, but then I was sure I remembered seeing keen warhammers in IWD2.  I guess either my memory's just playing up, or Black Isle made a mistake.

Well you know it's possible that they just had it able to be applied it to all weapons in IWD2, computer games rarely adhere 100% to the rules of the pen and paper game they're based on. I am not sure, it could also be that Impact is a 3.5 revision. But Keen definitely only applies to sharp or pointy weapons.

Heya,

In real life times, think of it as the weapon being exceptionally well balanced, i.e. it handles better than most weapons of it's type.

That description could apply more correctly to masterwork weapons. Keen weapons are exceptionally "sharp". The Keen ability can only be applied to piercing or slashing weapons. Bludgeoning weapons have the Impact ability applied to them for the same effect (doubling of critical range).

Heya,

Where's Impact from? I never saw it?

I first read about it in Faiths and Pantheons, but I'm pretty sure it's been incorporated into 3.5e... *grabs 3.5e DMG to check*

Okay... It's not in there, but it definitely says that the Keen ability can only be applied to piercing and slashing weapons...

The Impact special ability can be found on page 27 in Faiths and Pantheons, in a side bar under Gond's entry in the book.

Heya,

I apologize in advance for disturbing the peace here, but the inception of this mod cannot go unchallenged lest we invite more of its kind into our fold.

This is a bit much, don't you think? "Lest we invite more of its kind into our fold"?

Would you say the same thing about Harry Potter fan fiction that depicts our hero Harry in a relationship with Draco Malfoy? Or maybe Ginny Weasely in a loving and sexual relationship with Hermione Granger? Or would you say the same about other kinds of slash pairings? Dax/Kira? Picard/Riker? Tom/Harry? Xena/Gabrielle? Sam Carter/Janet Fraiser?

I never thought this mod would actually leave the concept stages given how unbelievable it is. Also, I'm not the most active member of this community anymore, so I don't visit this place as often as I once did. What does it matter anyway? It's not as if people aren't free to critique mods whenever they want.

When you look at the original thread, you'll see that three people disagreed strongly (you, Sev, and a guest called Sean)... but everyone else was kind of supportive.

Obsessing over this is not making you look very good...

Whatever gave you that impression? I'm not obsessed: I'm annoyed. There's a difference.

The fact that you brought it up on another forum? The fact that this isn't the first time you've argued against homosexuality/bisexuality in a mod?

The source of my annoyance is not your freedom to write a pornographic work of fiction, but the mindset that inspires someone to rewrite a pre-existing character without giving a thought to their true identity. Why is it so impossible to keep a character in character? Turning Viconia into someone who will sleep with anything isn't believable in any way, shape or form. Write your own character instead of twisting an official one into someone who fits your vision of her. By turning Viconia into something she is not (bisexual) you're simply turning her into nothing more than your own personal fantasy. Women are more than mere sex objects you know?

EXCUSE ME? You certainly have nerve don't you?

Who said this was pornographic? You have no idea. You obviously don't know me, but you've already jumped to ugly conclusions about me.

This mod is not porn. It's not even going near porn...

You claim that Viconia views other women in a more positive light simply because women are the dominent gender in Drow society. The truth of the matter is she sees other women as potential rivals.

No, I didn't say that. Please stop putting words in my mouth. I just said she'd view a female differently to a male and didn't elaborate. Yes, there's a much more subtle power struggle that goes on between female drow... But please remember Viconia isn't a typical drow (she's been away from drow society for more than 70 years - even if she spent a good amount of that time in the underdark!)...

The beauty of Viconia's character was that she was indoctrinated by Drow culture to practically despise men, and yet at the same time, she's a slave to her lust for/attraction to men. Was everything we learned about Viconia a lie? Your mod will make her inner struggle against ingrained Drow cultural norms and values meaningless.

No, my mod will not do that. Because it's more than just treating males as inferior. There's no room for love or trust in drow society, and I think the struggle to accept those two feelings is more important to her story than her sexual desires. And even if this mod was just to expand a friendship with a female, would you object and say it makes that part of her story meaningless? I mean, I'm playing a female here, I don't get to see this struggle against "ingrained Drow cultural norms and values" if I play a female PC...

Her story is not just about sex. Her story would still make sense if she romanced a female.

You call that proof?

No, I call it subtext... And I already said that subtext is subjective. What I see in the lines I quoted, it's obvious that you don't see it.

Also, in case you hadn't noticed, Viconia despises elves/half elves more than she does men. Why on Earth would she hit on a half elven female in the light of everything we know about her? In actual fact, this rewrite is based on what we don't know about her.

Umm... she still romances half-elf males.

Dear God, not this nonsensical reasoning again. By your logic every character we encounter in the game could potentially be bisexual merely because they don't advertise their heterosexuality/homosexuality.

Okay, so maybe it is a bit of a silly argument in the face of Viconia throwing herself at males within the game. But you also have to remember that the writers are constrained by the self-censorship rules of the company they work for. So we will never see (in a Dungeons and Dragons computer game) examples homosexual or bisexual characters. That is the reason why there's no advertising. And because you are of the opinion that unless we see it, it doesn't exist - that means according to you no one in the Forgotten Realms (of computer games) is bisexual or homosexual.

(The print version of the Realms is a different kettle of fish.)

This could apply to any number of fictional female characters you happen to find attractive. Is nothing sacred? The truth of the matter is you and the people who support the creation of this mod *want* Viconia to be bisexual. If that's the case, then you don't need to justify yourself to anyone. Just admit it.

Nope. Nothing is sacred. See that list of slash pairings I put at the start of this message? That's just a small sample of slash available on the 'net.

I am doing this mod because I want to and because I feel there is something there to work with. If I didn't see it, I wouldn't be doing this mod. I don't need to justify myself, as you said.

The one thing I cannot understand is people's tolerance towards this mod. Feel free to tear my arguments apart. If I write another lengthy post regarding this mod, dare I say it will be in the appropriate forum.

It wouldn't matter if people tollerated it or not. I'm not doing this for everyone else out there, I'm doing it for me. What next? You want people to come out and send hate mail to the dirty lezzy mod writer?

Heya,

Since you've stated your opinion definitively and there is no room to disagree, what exactly are you seeking, since it's not open-minded debate?

Judging from your tone, you obviously don't appreciate a mere difference of opinion.

People are allowed to disgaree, Longinus. Just so long as you realise that disagreements inherantly mean differing opinions. You don't agree with me or Grim... Fine. That's great. End of story.

There have been some great examples of atrocious mods before now (like Weimer's Solaufein and Lord Mirrabo's Imoen), but this is by far the worst example of someone having the audacity to twist an official character into someone who meets their sexual needs. Tell me why I should find this acceptable?

I haven't played Sola, but I have played Lord Mirabbo's Imoen romance mod. It is not the way I would have gone about doing things, but it's far from atrocious.

You don't have to find it acceptable. But you could have brought your problems to the forum (well actually, you did, way back when this mod was first being talked about) in which the mod lives instead of skulking around then attacking from the shadows. (And why did you wait until now to bring this up (again)? The mod has been in production for quite a while now.)

If people want to introduce gay/bisexual characters into the game, fine. But don't currupt, pollute, poison, or ruin official characters just because you want them to be something they are not.

Longinus, slash fanfic is as old as the Original Star Trek. This is the "mod" equivelant. If you don't like it, you don't have to play it. You don't even have to think about it. In fact it would probably be better if you just forgot that this mod was in production - at least that way you'd stop loosing sleep over it (as you obviously have). Obsessing over this is not making you look very good, and in fact the use of the words "corrupt, pollute, poison, or ruin" almost makes you sound homophobic (NO, I am NOT calling you a homophobe).

Where's the proof showing in no uncertain terms that Viconia is bisexual? The game made it absolutely crystal clear that she prefers men. Have you never met good-looking, sexually aggressive straight women in real life? I have. Not being a prude doesn't automatically amount to being bisexual.

There is at least one conversation she has with Jaheira that has at least a touch of lesbian subtext to it. But I must add, I don't need proof. There's no concrete proof she's straight either, by which I mean to say, Viconia doesn't say she's straight ever - even though she does show a strong preference for men... but being a drow she intereacts with strong females in a different way than she would with men. (Which we don't actually get to see, since Viconia only has one conversation with female PCs.)

Here's the conversation she has with Jaheira...

Jaheria: Avert your eyes, dark elf.  I'll not have you taint the beauty of the wood with your poison gaze.

Viconia: Would you deny me even the sight of the trees, Jaheira?  I can appreciate the strength of the oak, even though I would never live amongst them.

Jaheira: I am not to be swayed by your words, creature.  I know too much of you and your kind.

Viconia: Ooo, such delicious fire, though better it was turned on an enemy.  I would be your ally, Jaheira; your strength might even bring you respect among my kind.

Jaheira: Lies.  Such respect would grant me naught but a bigger tombstone, or a nameless grave in a slightly nicer tunnel.

Viconia: Granted you might not live to make that favorable impression, but I still say it is so. Take that as you will.

There's subtext there if you care to look. But I have a feeling you're going to say otherwise. (Literally, it just shows Viconia showing respect for Jaheira's spirit, but subtext is a different issue and generally involves the perceptions of the reader which is highly subjective...)

Sorry man, but this "debate" was over before it began. As for the purpose of this topic, I want to know how others feel about this particular mod.

People are entitled to have their opinions, and I respect that and I respect their opinions. But at this stage, there isn't anything you or anyone else can say that will stop me from writing this. (I'm my own worst enemy generally, but opposition is more likely to strengthen my resolve than discourage me.)

I just want to remind everyone that slash and femmeslash are old "genres" that have quite a following on the 'net. Viconia won't be the first or the last (literary/movie/comic/game) character to be given a "queer" slant that they show no evidence of (I disagree on the no evidence part, but that's neither here nor there).

Heya,

Not to mention Greyhawk is the "default" 3rd Edition world (the general 3E D&D handbooks refer to Greyhawk deities, etc), and consequently there are probably far more campaigns set in it than the Forgotten Realms.

I can't remember the last time I saw a map of Oerth. Which would seem to indicate that there are a lot of homebrewed worlds using the Greyhawk pantheon.

Heya,

Actually, the BG saga is quite full of lore flaws.

Yes, but ToB even more so than the others .

Heh. You think ToB is bad, try some of the NWN series.

One word... (if I spell it right!)

Suldanessellar.

Try and find that in any canon source that isn't one of the BG novels.

How about two? Pages 67 of Lands of Intrigue book 1, and page 126 of Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate II.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in the 3rd Edition FR Campaign Setting as well, but I could be wrong.

1) Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate II... what can I say? The book was written around the game, which definitely isn't canon... Not to mention that Volo himself is an unreliable narrator.

2) Lands of Intrigue... Hmmm... I'll have to check that out... (Yeah, I've been known to be wrong. I didn't check my sources properly... *sigh* I completely forgot about LoI.)

3) FRCS has no reference to Suldanessellar - if it's that important an elvish settlement, it would be mentioned along side Evereska and Evermeet (or at least in the Lands of Intrigue section of the book, but it's not). No mention of Suldanessellar in Races of Faerun. Player's Guide to Faerun doesn't have a reference either, but that's not surprising. I could go through the rest of my 3rd Ed books, but somehow I don't think I'll find any references.

Just wondering something. I read somewhere, maybe on this board, that using (a certain person's?) portraits in mods is violation of copyright.

By that figuring, - well there are a lot of portrait packs out there with pics scanned from book covers as well as lots of portraits that are on the net in general. I download a bunch for future reference but I don't keep urls of everyplace I go....and anyway a pic might be posted a million different places on the net.

Was this guy serious about copyright violation, and if so how does one mod without the worry that at some point now or in any possible future someone might sue him for use of a pic he found someplace.

I write, semi-professionally - internet stories and recently had to change the name of a minor character in a story I wrote five years ago due to some twit having the same name and not likeing his involvement in my work at all. (Dragonfan fan stories by the way)

See where I am going with this? Unless a person does his own art, start to finish they Could Be at risk. What's up with that.

Just wondering.

Minotaur In Maze

Heya,

If you're worried about copyright issues, my advice to you is simple: Look on NWN Vault (or other portrait site)... Look for original art posted by the original artist. When you find one you like, e-mail the artist and politely ask for permission to use the portrait in your mod. Chances are, the portrait artist will say yes, unless the work was comissioned specifically for another mod. Also, if you don't see something that would work, but you do see an artist whose original work catches your eye, you could e-mail them and politely inquire if they're willing to do a comission.

(I see you already found Sol Ek Sa, so I won't tell you to look there. )

Heya,

There is a temple of Waukeen there. But I am planning on some sort of interlude where the PC can interfere, perhaps on the market place (after all her parents are merchants). The idea is molding in my head, hopefully I will be able to write it down soon

Because Lliira had a special role in the Time of Troubles (taking on Waukeen's divinity), it might be interesting to keep in mind how old your NPC was during the Time of Troubles, and what effect, if any, the loss of connection to Lliira had on her during that time (if she was old enough to be a priestess then - if she's in her late 20s, then that's quite likely)

The Time of Troubles occured in 1358 DR... BG2:SoA occurs around 1369DR (11 years later) - so if she's 29, she'd have been 18 at the time, and possibly already a priestess. Just something to concider.

Heya,

If there will be romance with the PC, I am not going to write it as a standard BGII romances are written. You can be friends even if you are not romancing her, she won?t leave, she won?t sulk. She won?t romance any evil aligned PCs though, nor will she make such a good friends with them either. And she won?t romance a female PC (she?s just not lesbian or bisexual), but you can be friends with her. And I think she would romance any race, she?s not a kind of person who will look the outside, she rather looks for a kind and loyal heart.

Yes! :thumb: Friendship is a great idea!

Bioware tended to neglect relationships between female characters... Especially in the romancable 3 (actually I think they just neglected relationships between characters that didn't meet romance requirements in general). Having the ability to befriend a major NPC is always a good thing. :thumb:

About her religion and god, where could I find out more about Lliira? The description on the site Bob mentioned is kind of short. I know I could try to find it on my own, but I think that maybe here are people who have a lots of links to related sites

Lliira has always been concidered a minor deity of the Realms, and her main claim to fame at the time of BG2 (1369 DR) is that she's acting as "caretaker" for Waukeen's faithful while Waukeen is missing.

And because I'm feeling generous , here's Lliira's dogma...

Each day is another movement in the Elysian Rigadoon, the joyful dance of a life lived in rapture and without care or frustration. Seek joy always by working to bestow it upon others. Festivals are for all - gather into celebrations the lost, the lonely, the exiled and outlaw, the shunned, and even your foes. Let folk follow their own desires, and never fail to follow your own.

That's from the 3rd Ed book, Faiths and Pantheons... If I get the time/inclination I'll type up her dogma from the 2nd Ed Faiths and Avatars - but essentially it's the same, just more wordy .

Heya,

Since I'm here, I may as well mention it...

The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting has a list of common first names and surnames on page 12, for pretty much all races and all the major regions. It wouldn't be good to overuse the table, but it does give you an idea of what names sound like in the various regions.

I might also add that the FRCS is a good resource for most aspiring mod makers, because it has a very good overview of the Realms, providing history and flavour for the various regions. Current game year is 1372 DR, the BG saga occurs during 1369 DR.

It's not a romance .

Well there you go. *blushes and goes and hides in a corner*

Heya,

Well, Viconia tries to be nice to Kivan in BG1...

Be that as it may, this is BG2 we're talking about. The fact remains that she won't romance a male PC elf in BG2. Why would she romance a male NPC elf in BG2? (Being nice to someone does not equal romancing them.)

I noticed the link to the Kivan mod in your sig, Nightmare, and my initial reaction to the Kivan/Viconia romance idea was exactly the same as my reaction here. You must have a very good reason for it to work. (Especially since Kivan is a devotee of Shevarash. The Black Archer is not the kind of deity that would take his worshippers consorting with drow very lightly, since he's mostly focused on killing every single one of them (yep, he's the closest thing the surface elves have to an outright evil deity, and he allows Chaotic Evil clerics (as well as CG and CN) in his clergy. But this is not the place for that discussion!)

(The solution to Viconia romancing an elf NPC is simply to remove the restriction against romancing a PC elf (which then means that your version of Viconia does romance elves)... which then means said NPC elf gets competition from PC elves.)

Heya,

Just a couple of points...

1) Jon Irenicus would not end up in the Abyss after his death. He would merely cease to be. He has no soul, and no divine spark... The former was reclaimed by CHARNAME, the latter had been stripped by the Seldarine.

2) Bioware seem to either not understand how FR's afterlife works, or they like the idea of certain individuals having "special fates" with regards to that. Even if Jon had a soul, he would not have ended up in the Abyss... Unless he was faithful to some CE deity. (Or he accepted the offer of a Tanar'ri while his soul was queued up on the Fugue Plane awaiting Kelemvor's judgement.)

3) I had something to say about Drizzt, but for some reason I fergetted it.

Take all I have written with a grain of salt, as you should all things written on the internet! (Plus I'm working on memory today, I don't have my books with me.)

EDIT: This isn't to say that there can't be a reasonable explanation for Jon's continued existance after SoA. Just don't brush it under the rug, though... I hate that. It's important to know how he survived!

Heya,

Alright, thank you.

But a further question: if I want emphasise that the fiend is small / little / insignificant how should I proceed?

You'd just use "little fiend"

which in drow is... lotha nuij

You might find this website helpful: House Maerdyn Translator

And this is the dictionary it uses, mostly: TL'Ilythiiri Zhaun'ol (The Drow Dictionary)

Heya,

I know, I'm being a pipsqueak here...

Roc is also an anagram for Orc.

Heya,

Zandilar, you've written female erotica but no femslash?  Wait, I don't really want to know the answer.  Has any of this erotica seen the light of day?  At your discretion, I would certainly be interesting in browsing a piece or two.

I suppose slash is unappealing to me because it defies the image I have of the male NPC's in question and, ultimately, because most of what I have seen is spoof.  I do know that it is not because I have anything against homosexual sex (as it is, in fact, quite arousing... probably for the same reasons lesbian sex is arousing to men).

In fact, I do write femmeslash... I have some publicly published, and some privately published (private mailing list's archive, in fact)... It's Knights of the Old Republic (PC/Bastila) and Alien Ressurection (Ripley/Call). I have other things - Baldur's Gate (PC/Imoen, Jaheira/Viconia), Xena (guess who), Babylon 5 (Ivanova/Talia Winters), Neverwinter Nights (PC/Aribeth), general Forgotten Realms (The Seven Sisters (various parings and not with each other, except for one story), Alusair/Caladnei) - that were either never completed or just never saw the light of day online... The NWN fic was actually posted to the Bioware boards back in the day, but I never did complete it.

As for just erotica? Hmmm... I have one piece of a rather BDSM nature that probably won't see the light of day since I'm pretty conflicted over it, and it deals with a pair of characters who are in a novel I've been working on for a while.

Heya,

The original male NPCs from BG2 I have seen called gay/bisexual or had associated slash fiction were Anomen, Haer'Dalis, Valygar and Keldorn. From modded - Solaufein and Kelsey. I would not call either Valygar or Keldorn handsome - personal opinion only, please, no need to argue about that.

Oh, I put "handsome" in inverted commas for a reason. There does seem to be a pattern to the types of males who are slashed. Usually they're the most desirable to their female authors for one reason or other.

What is femme slash? Women writing lesbians? It wouldn't occur for the same reason men don't write homosexual males.

Technically the term "slash" only refers to m/m pairings. Femmeslash (also femslash) is used to distinguish f/f.

Oddly enough, I think the authors of slash in general are women - slash or femmeslash... This might have something to do with the fact that good slash (IMHO) generally deals with relationships, and not just smut.

My attempts at serious fiction have included homosexual males, as have a few of my less serious pieces (I don't write erotica). Of straight male authors of Science Fiction and Fantasy, I can recall sexually active gay male character treated well by Robert Heinlein, Jack L. Chalker, Philip Jose Farmer, and others. The point being, male authors do include gay male characters when the story calls for it, both in erotic and mainstream fiction.

I write erotica when the mood moves me, I just don't write about men (and I'm female if you hadn't guessed, and lesbian). There are always exceptions, I was merely noting that the majority of slash seems to be written by women. This isn't to say that males couldn't write Slash, just that they don't do it very often.

At any rate, I wasn't talking about professional mainstream fiction or erotica... Slash (in general) grew out of Fanfiction. By it's very definition, all slash is amateur -

"Taking two MALE characters, from a television series, movie, comic, anime, book, etc., and "pairing" them together, usually for sexual acts." (from UrbanDictionary.com)

"Slash fiction is fan fiction, describing homosexual pairings between media characters, often in explicit detail, and very frequently outside the canon of the source. The name arises from the use of the "/" character in phrases such as "Kirk/Spock" to describe the stories. ("Kirk/Spock" is widely thought to be the first type of slash fiction, first appearing in the 1970s in Star Trek fanzines.)" (From Wikipedia)

I don't exactly see stories written about copyrighted and/or trademarked characters being published professionally, except without express permission of the owners of the copyright and/or trademark... (And usually they have creative control over what the characters may or may not do, and homosexuality isn't exactly accepted... yet.)

Heya,

Isn't it interesting that the majority of BG2 female NPCs have either been depicted as bisexual or lesbian in fan-fic or created as sexually agressive bi- or lesbian women by modders, yet poor Minsc, Korgan and Jan are never depicted as randy gay men on the make?

Oh it IS very interesting, actually. Did you know that the majority of slash authors are women? I am not sure if this also applies to femmeslash, which is a good deal rarer than just straight slash.

However, those characters that tend to get slashed are the "handsome" ones... I could see Anomen and Keldorn subject to slashing... Interesting that you didn't mention either of them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the majority of modders be male? This might be a factor.

Oh well, interesting thoughts.

Heya,

**Warning, mild spoilers for NWN: Hordes of the Underdark, the Return of the Archwizards trilogy of Realms books, and the Baldur's Gate novel trio are contained within this message.**

Please... While the Realms do have some areas that bear a remarkable resemblance to several parts of our world, Abeir-Toril is not Earth.

Here is what Ed Greenwood himself had to say about sexuality in the Realms (you'll have to scroll down - but it's the bit specifically addressing me), and here is another post from Ed (the second one on the page) about marriage, including religiously sanctioned one night stands.

Now, before you all go "pooh pooh, isn't that randy old goat Elminster this guy's mary sue (or is that gary stu?) and therefore he's incapable of making a comment, because he's just this horny old guy?" You also need to remember that Ed Greenwood is the guy who made the Realms in the first place!

TSR, WotC, and now Hasbro have had rather strict "Family Friendly" policies (the latter being the strictest), which means that aspect of the Realms has been scrupulously kept out of print - though sometimes this gets by-passed by particularly clever writers. So you'll probably never see an openly gay, bi, lesbian, or polyamorus person in print, even though there should be. (There are four exceptions I can think of off the top of my head, 1) The description of Elversult in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (pg143), for an example of "clever" (blatant IMHO!) wording... Yanseldara and her consort Vaerana Hawklin, both women. At the time the FRCS first came out, Sean K Reynolds on the Realms-L list would not comment beyond "read it however you want"; 2) The implied polygamous relationship at the end of the Return of the Archwizards series... I don't know how they missed that one; 3) The portrayal of Imoen in (godawful) Philip Athans and (not-so-godawful-but-still-fairly-painful) Drew Karpyshyn's Baldur's Gate trio of books; 4) the implied polygamous relationship at the end of Hordes of the Underdark if the male PC has romanced both Nathyrra and Aribeth.)

The fact of the matter is, Abeir-Toril is nothing like Earth. For a start, they don't have certian real life religions that have dominated Earth society for thousands of years... Instead they have such deities as Sune, who is the goddess of passion, beauty and love...  Lliira, the godess of joy, festivals, and dancing. The original party deity! Sharess, who is the goddess of sensual pleasures, festhalls (a nice way of saying brothels), and patroness of courtesans (a nice way of saying prostitutes)... In fact, Sharess's main temple is in Calimport - make of that what you will!

Ironically enough, Zandilar is also another name for Sharess... Zandilar was a Yuirwood deity, worshiped by elves who lived there long ago. She was kind of like a more pleasure centered love deity, very fickle... At one point, these deities were at war with the drow gods, and they were loosing. So in an attempt to help distract Vhaeraun, Zandilar went to him and tried to seduce him. Unfortunately he saw through her ploy and was able to subdue her. He was about to absorb her when Bast came along, and basically together Zandilar and Bast were able to fight him off. Unfortunately she had been severely weakened in the battle, and basically allowed Bast to absorb the last of her divinity... (Zandilar is not the first deity Bast/Sharess has absorbed, by the way)... This being done, Bast continued on hspellholdstudios.neter way, having a strong bout of wanderlust... At some point she came under the sway of Shar, and people started to equate her to the Harbinger of Shar... and started to call her Sharess accordingly. Sharess became darker and she seemed to loose some kind of spark that had been in her, in many ways she was slowly fading. Eventually she would have become just another aspect of Shar (absorbed by the greater power), but then the Time of Troubles occured. Sharess took on the Pasha's favorite concubine as her Avatar and partied hard... Until Shar arrived, fresh from fighting her sister Selune in Waterdeep. As she was about to absorb Sharess once and for all, Sune arrived and poured a goblet of water over Sharess. The water in the goblet had come from the Evergold (a magical fountian that is shared by Sune, Aphrodite, and Hanali Celanil among other beauty/love deities), and it seemed to restore the joy and beauty Sharess had lost in her time under Shar's sway. Sharess was finally able to be rid of the taint of Shar, and has made quite a come back as far as popularity is concerned.

Well... I guess that doesn't have much to say about the proposed mod, and more to say of the treatment of sex and sexuality in the Realms (and the history of Zandilar and Sharess)... I must say I like the idea of this mod.

Heya,

I think the "Wish" spell could do it. Of course, if the player has low wisdom and gets the words of the wish wrong, it could lead to an interesting quest  (do you remember Malicant the chicken ?)

This would be a fair add-in to the Unfinished Business mod; the original Aerie plot offered you a chance to turn her into a bird and let her fly away, as life on the ground was so unbearable.

Personally I think it was a bad idea and best dropped (a "romantic" mercy killing as a solution to an emotional problem), but it would be very easy to put back in the game

Why bother with that? Aerie has the ability to heal herself at some point. So can Jaheira (not sure if Viconia actually gets this spell). Of course, any caster who can cast Wish can simulate Regenerate!

Regenerate (Necromancy)
Reversible

Sphere: Necromantic
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 3 rounds
Area of Effect: Creature touched
Saving Throw: None

When a regenerate spell is cast, body members (fingers, toes, hands, feet, arms, legs, tails, or even the heads of multi-headed creatures), bones, and organs grow back. The process of regeneration requires but one round if the severed member(s) is (are) present and touching the creature, 2d4 turns otherwise. The creature must be living to recieve the benefits of this spell. If the severed member is not present, or if the injury is older than one day per caster level, the recipient must roll a successful system shock check to survive the spell.

The reverse, wither, causes the member or organ touched to shrivel and cease functioning in one round, dropping off into dust in 2d4 turns. Creatures must be touched for the harmful effect to occur.

The material components of this spell are a prayer device and holy water (or unholy water for the reverse).

For those wondering, yes... Wings are limbs, they are concidered members. They would be restored by this spell.

Heya,

It's interesting to note that in the film Troy, Archilles, who in the book Illiad has a boyfriend, has a girlfriend.  It is hardly surprising that a game which probably relies heavily on American sales has failed to mention homosexuality in a big way when this would of course lead to the bible belt (covering of 40% of America last I recall) steering a wide course around the product.

Don't get your worlds confused.  The fact that the largest buyer of this type of product also happens to have a fairly large, and in some cases verging on zealot, christian community, would have quite some influence on anything produced in the gaming arena.  If it's enough to scare a major hollywood film company, then what chance does a small developer stand?

I also understand they managed to keep actual deific participation to a bare minimum. (Haven't seen Troy yet, but I'm planning to go see it this week sometime.)

But yes, marketing is definitely something that big businesses have to keep in mind when publishing something. Which is why we don't get blatant mentioned of homosexuality in computer games, role playing source materials, and (generally) novels associated with them.

Hasbro is a big company, and they have specific policies against presenting homosexuality or anything that might be regarded as adult in nature... Though there are exceptions (ie: The Book of Vile Darkness and The Book of Exalted Deeds both of which deal with adult concepts, but both have labels on them clearly warning of such content - besides which book publication is slightly different to game publication since there is no rating system for books)...

The BG saga however, is a little bit harder to pin down. The licensing company was basically in a state of flux during the development. (TSR => WotC => Hasbro)... Policies weren't as pinned down as they are now (no festhalls in Hordes of the Underdark for example. There was one but it was taken out at Hasbro's insistence - now I KNOW there are festhalls in Waterdeep!)...

However, having said that... In the world of fan fiction and game mods, anything goes. There is no pressure from Christian (and other) zealots not to put stuff in them that might not be acceptable to the so-called "moral majority".