83 replies to this topic

[Neferit]

Quite like the idea - but in truth, seeing "race: celestial elf" makes me raise my eyebrow in Spock style. But seeing you are going to change it to "normal" elf makes me smirk - I simply adore "normal" elves

And hope you won't have much headaches - I've just got one and it's awful, when you have to do some programming in Pascal when your head is killing you

And by the way - I love the name - however, when you have problems with pronnounciation of "r" (as I have since I was little), it can really be a pain in neck

[Yuwakusha]

Quite like the idea - but in truth, seeing "race: celestial elf" makes me raise my eyebrow in Spock style. But seeing you are going to change it to "normal" elf makes me smirk - I simply adore "normal" elves

And hope you won't have much headaches - I've just got one and it's awful, when you have to do some programming in Pascal when your head is killing you

And by the way - I love the name - however, when you have problems with pronnounciation of "r" (as I have since I was little), it can really be a pain in neck

Heh, thanks a lot Neferit after playing around with the character concept and thinking over the criticism being made, I actually like the idea of a normal elf better simply because it's easier and I never really liked celestials anyway.

As far as headaches and stress go, thank god for coffee.

[Yuwakusha]

So based on what I roughly understand, the elven pantheon has Hanali Cenalil or the elven embodiment of love. Like Sune, I read that she basically encourages her followers to accept and find beauty in all things, which leads me to form the opinion that if there is a romance, that the NPC should romance both genders, of all races, classes, and alignments however with some stat requirements. (Intelligence, Charisma, etc.) I also hear quite often that there are not enough connections to Bioware NPC's and I believe myself that a few of them could use some character expansion to add more depth to RPGing. (Anyone willing to expand on this, please do in case I'm wrong.)

So immediately I thought of Valygar. Why? Well I think that due to Srilorin's rather quiet or reserved nature and his immense hatred for the Cowled Wizards, that the two would attract naturally. And though I enjoy a good, solid man-woman relationship, I think that the game is rather narrow-minded upon same sex relationships and I hope to possibly have an opportunity to graze that matter.

So, yeah comments and opinions are welcome as always, so don't be shy.

Oh, and if anyone wants to see a banter or a flirt or something just let me know.

[Azkyroth]

So based on what I roughly understand, the elven pantheon has Hanali Cenalil or the elven embodiment of love. Like Sune, I read that she basically encourages her followers to accept and find beauty in all things, which leads me to form the opinion that if there is a romance, that the NPC should romance both genders, of all races, classes, and alignments however with some stat requirements. (Intelligence, Charisma, etc.) I also hear quite often that there are not enough connections to Bioware NPC's and I believe myself that a few of them could use some character expansion to add more depth to RPGing. (Anyone willing to expand on this, please do in case I'm wrong.)

So immediately I thought of Valygar. Why? Well I think that due to Srilorin's rather quiet or reserved nature and his immense hatred for the Cowled Wizards, that the two would attract naturally. And though I enjoy a good, solid man-woman relationship, I think that the game is rather narrow-minded upon same sex relationships and I hope to possibly have an opportunity to graze that matter.

So, yeah comments and opinions are welcome as always, so don't be shy.

Oh, and if anyone wants to see a banter or a flirt or something just let me know.

Don't be discouraged if the person I'm thinking of posts with objections to or sarcastic commentary about the proposed same-sex romance.

Other than that, Valygar might not be such a bad choice, given that other Bioware characters (Viconia and Cernd, possibly others) have already tacitly second-guessed his sexuality in the banters. Also because, as Bioware wrote him, he's a "flat" character even by the standards of most of the original NPCs.

[PS: given any thought to crossmod banters at this stage?]

Edited by Azkyroth, 18 November 2008 - 12:37 AM.

[Yuwakusha]

The Valygar romance is something of a special case however, since <CHARNAME> gets first dibs. The relationship between Srilorin and Valygar would happen either under the circumstances if the PC breaks the romance with Srilorin (by PID or in the romance itself) or she just doesn't appeal to his tastes. And like your examples concerning Viconia and Cernd, Valygar is actually in my opinion one of my favorite Bioware NPC's and I loathe the fact that such little detail and history were provided in regard to his character and I hope that I could possibly change that.

As far as Crossmod banters are concerned, I would absolutely love to as soon as I reach a more comfortable place as I'm about halfway done with banters and interjections for SoA, though I think I should tackle one thing at a time since I often have the tendency to bite off more than I can chew at once.

[Azkyroth]

I think I should tackle one thing at a time since I often have the tendency to bite off more than I can chew at once.

Do you know who you're talking to?

[Tempest]

So immediately I thought of Valygar. Why? Well I think that due to Srilorin's rather quiet or reserved nature and his immense hatred for the Cowled Wizards, that the two would attract naturally. And though I enjoy a good, solid man-woman relationship, I think that the game is rather narrow-minded upon same sex relationships and I hope to possibly have an opportunity to graze that matter.

Bear in mind that Valygar is canonically heterosexual at least-he did have a [female] lover, and while the subplot involving her was taken out, there are still a few references to Suna Seni in the game and Valygar's relationship with her. Not saying Valygar can't be bisexual, but altering established canon facets (those that are factual, not matters of opinion) of npc's is usually frowned upon.

Edited by Tempest, 24 November 2008 - 11:10 AM.

[Kaeloree]

There used to be a joke going around the Bioware offices that Valygar was gay, and references to that joke occur throughout the game--such as in Viconia and Valygar's conflict--but Valygar is to all intents and purposes straight.

I'd be interested to see how you worked such a relationship, but it'd require some rather good writing and reasoning to pull it off without it seeming a little strange, I think.

[Thanatos.]

Ew.

[Kaeloree]

Bad choice of wording, perhaps, but for future reference--please only make posts in threads such as these when they actually contain something relevant and new to the discussion.

[Icendoan]

Awwww

Icen

[Yuwakusha]

So immediately I thought of Valygar. Why? Well I think that due to Srilorin's rather quiet or reserved nature and his immense hatred for the Cowled Wizards, that the two would attract naturally. And though I enjoy a good, solid man-woman relationship, I think that the game is rather narrow-minded upon same sex relationships and I hope to possibly have an opportunity to graze that matter.

Bear in mind that Valygar is canonically heterosexual at least-he did have a [female] lover, and while the subplot involving her was taken out, there are still a few references to Suna Seni in the game and Valygar's relationship with her. Not saying Valygar can't be bisexual, but altering established canon facets (those that are factual, not matters of opinion) of npc's is usually frowned upon.

There used to be a joke going around the Bioware offices that Valygar was gay, and references to that joke occur throughout the game--such as in Viconia and Valygar's conflict--but Valygar is to all intents and purposes straight.

I'd be interested to see how you worked such a relationship, but it'd require some rather good writing and reasoning to pull it off without it seeming a little strange, I think.

Gah. I should have posted those two ideas separately to avoid confusion.

The romance or relationship with Valygar was merely one of my ideas to more thoroughly expand upon his character since he is one of my favorite Bioware NPC's next to Viconia, but I feel that even with the suggestion of the relationship between himself and Suna Seni as Tempest mentioned, he is a rather flat and dare I say blase character. Though now I intend to simply write a few more banters or such between the two to portray a friendship or cammaderie of sorts.

Which brings me back to my previous thought, or shall I say indecisiveness which has nothing to do with Valygar whatsoever.

For example, Sunites and followers of Sune are often stereotypically bisexual from what I understand, simply due to the standard principles and teachings that love is universal and existant within all things. Likewise Hanali Cenalil is virtually the elven paragon or embodiement of love who also encourages the idea of love and beauty in everything regarding life and humanoids as a whole. The basic dogma of Hanali Cenalil is as follows:

"Life is worth living because of the beauty found in the world and the love that draws twin hearts together. Nurture what is beautiful in life, and let beauty's rapturous glow enliven and brighten the lives of those around you. The greatest joy is the rapture of newfound love and the tide of romance that sweeps over those wrapped in its embrace. Find love wherever it takes root, and bring it to its fullest bloom so that all may share in it joy and beauty it creates. Always give shelter and succor to young lovers, for their hearts are the truest guides to life's proper course."

My opinion or rather question, is that if Srilorin follows and embraces the the beliefs of Hanali Cenalil, that he should romance both genders, of any class, race, and alignment, however if I were to do that, I strongly feel that I should specifically write two seperate romantic paths lovetalk wise, one for male and one for female to portray the differences.

And as always, thank you for the opinions and criticism.

I'll post some banters and interjections in a few days.

[Thanatos.]

Bad choice of wording, perhaps, but for future reference--please only make posts in threads such as these when they actually contain something relevant and new to the discussion.

Sorry. Righ' then. In my opinion, I do not like the idea of homosexual NPC's in Baldur's Gate. Hope that helps (?)

[Yuwakusha]

Bad choice of wording, perhaps, but for future reference--please only make posts in threads such as these when they actually contain something relevant and new to the discussion.

Sorry. Righ' then. In my opinion, I do not like the idea of homosexual NPC's in Baldur's Gate. Hope that helps (?)

That's completely fine. Any opinions, even simple ones like this are appreciated.

[Kaeloree]

I think having separate tracks for a male and a female PC while a good idea in theory is sometimes more difficult when put into practice, because writing a romance track can be a very difficult thing to do. The way I suggest handling it would be to have one track, but have different talks for male and female PCs at some stages in the romance, to bring some variety in. Writing two whole tracks might prove to be a bit difficult!

[Kellen]

My opinion or rather question, is that if Srilorin follows and embraces the the beliefs of Hanali Cenalil, that he should romance both genders, of any class, race, and alignment, however if I were to do that, I strongly feel that I should specifically write two seperate romantic paths lovetalk wise, one for male and one for female to portray the differences.

As a note, I disagree with this assessment. While as a follower of Hanali, it's strongly suggested that he should accept love of any kind (even beyond racial, gender, or other cultural barriers, if he accepts that as love), it does not mean he will find love of that sort. A priest of a goddess of love, may only find romantic love among, may only be attracted to, humans, or women, or men, or dwarves, or nobles, or whatever but he should be able to recognize and encourage love when he sees it. When he sees it, is of course up to his writer, but I wonder what he'll think of the two lovers at the City Gates. Afterall, their 'love' leads them to do some terrible things, and the question must be asked, is that truly love? And how would he confront that situation...

Sorry, I'm babbling. I seem to have the talking(babbling) bug tonight.

Edited by Kellen, 25 November 2008 - 09:46 PM.

[Yuwakusha]

I think having separate tracks for a male and a female PC while a good idea in theory is sometimes more difficult when put into practice, because writing a romance track can be a very difficult thing to do. The way I suggest handling it would be to have one track, but have different talks for male and female PCs at some stages in the romance, to bring some variety in. Writing two whole tracks might prove to be a bit difficult!

The "variety" thing was what I meant. Thanks.

My opinion or rather question, is that if Srilorin follows and embraces the the beliefs of Hanali Cenalil, that he should romance both genders, of any class, race, and alignment, however if I were to do that, I strongly feel that I should specifically write two seperate romantic paths lovetalk wise, one for male and one for female to portray the differences.

As a note, I disagree with this assessment. While as a follower of Hanali, it's strongly suggested that he should accept love of any kind (even beyond racial, gender, or other cultural barriers, if he accepts that as love), it does not mean he will find love of that sort. A priest of a goddess of love, may only find romantic love among, may only be attracted to, humans, or women, or men, or dwarves, or nobles, or whatever but he should be able to recognize and encourage love when he sees it. When he sees it, is of course up to his writer, but I wonder what he'll think of the two lovers at the City Gates. Afterall, their 'love' leads them to do some terrible things, and the question must be asked, is that truly love? And how would he confront that situation...

Sorry, I'm babbling. I seem to have the talking(babbling) bug tonight.

My original plan was indeed to have him romance only females of the elven, human, or half-elven races that have at least 12 in Intelligence with no possibilities of a Bioware NPC romance or a male romance simply because as you currently stated he has no sexual attraction to males, nor does he find any othe Bioware NPC's attractive in that sort of sense. The only reason why I was considering the Valygar romance or the male track was simply because I often read as well as hear things like "Oh there aren't enough bisexual romances!" or "My dwarf <CHARNAME> feels neglected because she can't romance Tsujatha." Is she/he not good enough, pretty enough? See what I mean? Generally speaking though he may not be attracted to males or such, he encourages love wherever it is found (most of the time) and is realistically tolerant of most.

As for the lover's at the City Gates...I already have something planned.

[Choo Choo]

While I don't mind bisexual/homosexual NPC's in the least, I strongly discourage you from implementing that feature if that's the only reason why you were considering to have it. Write what YOU want, otherwise it won't turn out well.

[Tempest]

Just offering another viewpoint on the dogma of Hanali Celanil/Sune/Sharess: love does not always mean the physical sort of love. Sunites, for one, are hardly nymphomaniacs or hedonists-love as Sune and HC define it is more esoteric than that. Certainly, sex can be a major part of it, but also the sort of simple, unquestioning, affection and loyalty that tends to emerge among longtime adventuring groups, that sense of comraderie, is itself another sort of love, one a follower of Hanali Celanil would relish and encourage.

[berelinde]

BG2 needs more same-sex relationship possibilities, so I'm not about to tell you not to do a romance that would work for either gender. Writing a single romance track is a phenomenal amount of work, though. I'm afraid that if you set out to do two, you'll lose heart.

When it comes right down to it, there really isn't any need to have a separate track for M/F vs. M/M. Does a man behave differently when in love with a man than he would if he were in love with a woman? My guess would be that he does not. He'd behave like a man in love, and that's that. OK, you might want to offer PC responses tailored to one gender or the other, but that's easily accomplished with a ~Gender(Player1,MALE)~ trigger. Also, if you're planning on making this more than a cerebral romance, anatomical differences will require either very careful wording or different states based on gender, but unless they spend all together too much time in bed, you won't need to worry about this often. <PRO_HESHE> and <PRO_LADYLORD> and other dialogue tokens are your friends.

The important thing is to make sure that the NPC is an interesting companion whether or not there is a romance. This will sound funny, coming from me, as I've never written a thing in my life that didn't have romance involved, somehow, but if that's all there is, it will seem rather flat and one-dimensional.