Perceptions of Kiyone's Personality

Here's a topic to hear your impressions of Kiyone's Personality and your Sentiments about her Think of it as the reverse of an "Ask" thread - instead I'm asking the Player to describe his impression of my NPC. By the way, it is likely that opinions may differ to varying extents, so it is probably a good idea to type your own views and opinions before reading the other Notes in this thread

For the details I hope you will include in this thread, the General Details will be...

- KKRomance Value - either 1 or 2

check the Global Variable "KKRomance", and put it's value down here.
If your KKRomance value is still 0, it's probably a good idea to wait till it's either 1 or 2 before commenting on this thread, but if you want to comment still, that's cool
If you want to quicken the interaction between them in the Beta, it's probably best to use Ctrl-I.
Alternatively, if you don't want to look up the Variable
Stage 1 begins when Kova thanks Kiyone for believing in him
Stage 2 begins when they agree to be friends

- Personality Description

This basically is YOUR Description of the NPC, based on what you perceive. There can be more than one Description, to capture how differently you perceive Kiyone as you get to know her better.

- Sentiments

This basically is your Feelings/Views towards the NPC. You can have a few different Sentiments corresponding to each Personality, but it'd be nice to have an overall idea of how you feel towards Kiyone and how you'd compare your Feelings for her with your feelings for Kova, if you wish to compare.

For those wondering, I'll be starting a separate thread for Kova as well Hopefully, if the response to this thread is reasonable (well I don't know how good it will be since nothing ever really seems to fly on my forum, lol, especially when initiated by me...)

from Fantasy

Hm, I had wanted to make this topic but unfortunately I forgot. My work is just very busy this month.

Anyway... Kiyone. Our lovely ?almost paladin, be careful around her and don?t even *think* about breaking the law? archer...

At first I only took her along to see what the mod was about, and because I liked Kova. I knew I couldn?t have him without her, so she tagged along as well. Of course her being an archer (my second favourite class) helped as well.

I wonder if anyone else regarded her as I did at first. The poor ?good girl? who tries to save a bad boy because she?s in love with him, but since he?s not proven innocent yet she can?t really admit that she loves him. A girl who believes in the law and made me move cautious around her, simply because I tend to be more chaotic than lawful.

Anyone else who felt/feels that way about her?

I really really wish to hear from others who played this mod, perhaps (but not likely) even more than Zyraen. Why? Because that blasted girl has turned everything upside down and has confused me so much that I didn?t know what to believe anymore.

I want, no I need to know if I?m the only one who?s crazy, or that others discovered she?s not who you thought she was? Am I really the only one who was so completely fooled by her, or are there are other victims of Kiyone?s powerful mind? Am I the only one who stared at her in disbelief, just because you discovered she?s not an innocent, naïve and law-abiding wannabe paladin, but a person with a deep and complex personality who unsettled you with her beliefs and reasoning? In a way she is darker than Kova, and I have to admit that she?s completely stolen my heart with her fascinating personality.

So please tell me, are there more who took an interest in Kiyone or did I just make a complete fool of myself?

from Silk (aka Myst on SHS)

Kiyone ... hmmm.

To begin with, she comes across as just another detective looking to solve a case and you really don't consider her personality much except as a great shot with a bow.

Then she starts "oh so subtly" digging into your and your NPCs' minds and you think "whoa". She had made me very, very angry on occasion (I tend to really roleplay my games) and her treatment of Jahiera was, to me, inexcusable. (I'm not sure whether this is due to Kiyo's temperament or the fact that Zyraen never played BG1. Khalid and Jahiera become almost the PC's new guardians after Gorion was murdered and Jahiera, in particular, became very special to me. I understand her. I even like her sense of humour. I don't think I've ever played a BG game without Jahiera in it.)

I'm relying a bit on memory here because it's been a while since I played the mod and I'm only into about my third day on the full SoA release.

Kiyone is a particularly complex character. Sometimes reading between the lines is the only way to get a fix on her personality. She is logical, confused and searching for an answer that she seems to think (initially at least) can be found by talking to other players/NPC's. It almost feels in some conversations as if she's dissecting your mind. She doesn't realise the answer's already inside her, she just needs to admit it to herself.

To be honest, I'm not sure I like her. She does have a sense of humour on occasion and she's especially fond of children for a reason I haven't yet discovered. In the Beta release, I played her through to the witness scene and didn't really come to like her any more. I don't know why. She does mellow a bit the further into the game you get. Maybe it's just me. Maybe she clashes a bit with my personality and my thoughts and beliefs.

PS: Due to a faster banter acceleration than last time, I managed to stave off Kiyo's last and most vicious conversation with Anomen by getting the PC/Ano Romance activated.

Kiyone strikes me as being very intellectually developed, but not very emotionally developed. She is clearly intelligent and willful, and in the beginning she is hard to get along with (and as Silk said, I could slap her for the treatment of Jahiera, who is a must have character for me for pretty much the same reason Silk said; though I can never really bring myself to play her romance since I don't see her as a romantic character but as a teacher/guardian and it always feels kind of dirty; I even quit a no reload game I was playing where she got chunked). Kiyone makes some snap judgments but does a pretty good job of synthesizing all of the information into a coherent story on the fly. She is the type of person that I would imagine doing very well on oral exams and other sorts of things that require deep thinking on the fly (i.e. she'd be a good graduate student; which is something I know a bit about).

Emotionally she strikes me as inexperienced; I can imagine her as a child with few friends and many acquaintances (perhaps even enemies). She can be strident and unforgiving (especially at the beginning), and that was a bit of a turn off. Contrary to what a few others have written, I didn't get annoyed when she interjects into conversations, as this really is part of her personality (and it occasionally saved me from having to make responses that didn't fit my current NPC's persona, i.e. "good" choices that have exclamation points, the bane of my quiet character's existence). She does develop and there is no doubt that Kova has a nice impact on her personality (and she has a positive impact on his too), but I still get the feeling that she is a bit less emotionally mature than Kova.

This may seem a bit strange (and on the surface it's not quite right), but at first she reminds me a bit of Aerie only with the intellect to cover up her lack of emotional development; that is to say she can use her intellect as a shell. At her core Kiyone doesn't strike me as being terribly different from Kova, different defense mechanisms are used by each to defend their fragile emotional state and on the surface each is dramatically different. None of this should be taken to say they are weak; Kova and Kiyone have both been through their variations of hell. In many ways the mod is as much about "saving" Kiyone as it is Kova.

Loved this mod, it's great fun!

-Longarm

Edited by Zyraen, 15 May 2007 - 10:10 PM.

Kiyone was actually the reason why I stuck with the Mod. I found her a far more agreeable character than Kova. Her interjections during many quests really endeared her to me. What she said to evil people and when she saw evil events, is exactly the way I think or wanted to say. In point of fact, she brought out the ethical quandary of BGII's quests just by herself, where otherwise it would be easy to gloss over somethings that would be quite horrible in real life. It makes for a better role playing experience for me, to have Kiyone in the party, and to that extent it is the primary reason why I wanted to keep Kiyone in, because her archer abilities were simply wonderful due to the Tactical nature to which her special ability may be put to. I had to trade out Kivan for her, but I'll be replaying Kivan anyways.

As for her personality, I thought of her as strong willed with a good heart, and a biting wit that can indeed be abrasive at times. But only towards certain party members, never me. I particularly loved her encounters with Anomen, which was downright hilarious. The verbal beat down is one of the best for dealing with Anomen, even though Anomen isn't that bad a guy once he is in a romance with the PC and obtains his knighthood.

In her relationship with Kova, she comes across as someone who tries to uphold the traditions of the Sentinels and holds herself very tightly to stringent requirements and standards. Her good heart wars with her sense of duty concerning the law, in regards to Kova. She has to be vigilant of betrayal, yet her heart tells her to trust Kova. Her gut instinct oftentimes is used to justify her relationship with Kova and her actions on his behalf, so it seems to me that Kiyone hides much of her emotional states out of a sense of duty. It seems to me that she is torn between half of the time seeing Kova as a criminal like any other, and the other half seeing Kova through her attraction to him. It makes for great drama, certainly.

I liked Kiyone far more than I liked Kova, but it wasn't due to the complexity of character development. Kova's dialogues are circular in nature sometimes, and rather vague or obtuse. He seems very shadowy, especially when I read his dialogues with Kiyone. Kiyone is much clearer in her sentiments, she doesn't try to go around the problem so to speak, she confronts it directly. I like that clarity, for it is what I would expect in a paladin, but unexpected out of her because she was an archer, a classical development of complex characterization. Kova is complex as well, in that his reactions to certain events stem from his shadow thief past. So he is naturally more ambiguous, but that ambiguity doesn't endear me to him as much as I liked Kiyone.

Contrary to what a few others have written, I didn't get annoyed when she interjects into conversations, as this really is part of her personality (and it occasionally saved me from having to make responses that didn't fit my current NPC's persona, i.e. "good" choices that have exclamation points, the bane of my quiet character's existence).

-Longarm

I do so wish I could feel as you do about Kiyone butting in and taking over the conversation but I just can't. I really like this mod overall and I like Kova but I just dislike Kiyone so much I don't know that I could stomach her into TOB. Well maybe it isn't Kiyone herself so much as the butting in and taking over at least twice in my game. I cannot tolerate that. Once was bad enough in the CC with Lethinen but when she butted in with Mook I just had it. Enough was enough. I played through SOA for the story and the fun of the mystery and the encounters but don't know if I can take the "taking over the pc's conversations and choices" into TOB or not. I hope I will as I am really curious as to their story but I really don't want to get as angry and irritated as I did in my SOA run with her.
For me the last straw was the over-the-top Anomen bashing. It was just too much.

I really don't mean to insult Zyraen here honestly because his mod is great I guess it just isn't for me. Great work though! I hope I don't regret posting this but I just felt so strongly about the game I recently went through with them that I kind of had to come and post. I really do admire BTL and hope that I can bring myself to finish their story when it is ready.

Edited by Ankhes, 15 July 2007 - 06:28 PM.

The way I see it, I want mods to add new content. There's only so many times I can play the main vanilla story before I could start doing it in my sleep.

Heh, I'll toss some more words into this morass of praise and constructive criticism. I ain't nearly ready to head for Spellhold yet, but so far, I absolutely adore BOTH Kiyone and Kova. I've played through vanilla SoA so often I could write a book on it, but this time, I installed 172 various mods via BiG World Project, among them being Beyond the Law. I have to say that K&K really add a whole new dimension to the game, at least so far....they interject quite often, and I hope that never stops. I simply MUST have super-chatty NPCs with me, or around me, as it keeps the game feeling 'real'.....woops, getting sidetracked....

Anyway, in Kiyone's case, she is indeed somewhat similar to Aerie, minus the crying and with a little more worldly experience. Now, normally...I can't -stand- having Lawful Good people in my party....personally, I'm a Chaotic Good / Chaotic Neutral with Good tendencies, and paladin-types usually drive me CRAZY, but for some reason, Kiyone comes across as someone who wants to believe in law and goodness, but isn't quite blind (or crazy) enough to see the world in only black and white, and her deep questioning is in fact rather refreshing, as it helps me to see the world of Toril, and indeed this one too, in a different way.

[I'll probably either update this as the game progresses, or make new posts]

Edited by Jenavee, 09 December 2010 - 11:06 PM.

I just finished a run with KKRomance Value 2 (finished the plot as intended, as far as I can tell from checking out the information you provided). I'll try to avoid spoilers as much as possible, but here are my impressions:

And be warned, if one wants to avoid spoilers, then run far, far away from this post.

Overall I respect Kiyone, the character. I believe that the character development could happen more gradually along the way. I didn't exactly perceive how things really progressed from value 1 to value 2 in character-driven terms. The cut scenes did help with this, especially the cooking and resting scenes. But to say more about Kiyone:

I would like to see more emotion from her. She's not exactly Spock, but part of her maturation should be a more conspicuous acceptance of emotions in this plotline. I like that she is strong and assertive. I especially like her behavior in the mod ending, after Hell Irenicus dies. If I could see a stronger link from the early and rigid Kiyone to the later Kiyone--who is more comfortable with her thoughts and feelings--I would be more comfortable. During the plot, I'd like to see the fear of emotion change to a conspicuous recognition of how her inner strength, sense of caring, and confidence in what is right, become accepted as the emotions that make her who she truly is. Those emotions are what truly drive this plotline. Without Kiyone, Kova either dies or disappears forever from society. Possibly the most neglected part is her sense of caring. It's something easily missed as an undercurrent through her dialogue.

But it's important to remember that it's possible to be Lawful while having fully human emotions. It's quite possible to be Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil with them, after all. Evil people can love and feel, but don't make such traits into a way of life. For any Lawful alignment, however, it should be the Lawful Good who show the most heart. Law and good can conflict, and clearly DO conflict in this mod. They can also either conflict or work together within a personality. One should not forget that good people are actually good, whether they be lawful, chaotic, or otherwise.

It's clear that there is an unspoken undercurrent of attraction driving Kiyone to take charge of this case. What I'm not seeing in the early stages is the reason why she feels this way about Kova. I am also not exactly seeing the stages of change in Kova's world view. To me, the true battle within Kova has to do with his overwhelming pessimism. Even in Hell I think this was a defining personality trait of his--Kova is pessimistic about both the ability of authority to live up to its purpose, and about fate/karma/destiny allowing him the luxury of living through anything that his behavior gets him into (that much isn't a spoiler to anyone who has played this mod). Any redemption would need to benefit from Kiyone's inner strength and faith in the value of goodness. Kova essentially asks the question, "Why persevere?" Kiyone has an answer to that question.

In contrast, Kiyone must come to accept emotions as a fundamental part of her life and mission, and she must learn to accept Kova's chaotic side. I'd like to see these struggles become more visible during the plot. As far as I could tell, these two changes happened almost entirely off-screen. Instead, the best ending to the storyline is almost entirely assumed throughout the plot, or at least these changes occur in a rather subdued way. I'd like to see more emotion from both, but Kiyone needs this the most. She rarely shows her caring side, but it's got to be more visible at least during lovetalks even if her inner strength and dedication are what Kova needs the most. And I want to make that clear--Kiyone bears actual dedication towards Kova and faith in him. These two traits could be more openly expressed in some dialogues, especially when Kova must sometimes reveal that he's been chaotic in the past.

I'm undecided about ToB. I am DYING to see how the story turns out, so I hope I can import them via the Fate Spirit. If not, I may not be able to finish the story. I love the story, and I love Kova. I can't stand Kiyone, I'm so sorry! I wish I could like her, but as much as I try, I can't. Her forcing herself on my pc's decisions and the way way way too much "Anomen-the-jerk" thing just stuck in my craw. I think the Anomen stuff was just...too much.

I didn't like her and just can't. But I like Kova so much that it almost balances things out! The content of this story is wonderful, the ambushes are fun, and I, thankfully, only had to reload a couple of "stuck" cutscenes once or twice before they worked all right. Following the clues was fun and fascinating, though I felt time-pressed, and the focus of my game felt like it wasn't my pc's story so much as it became almost exclusively theirs.

But, that said, it was and is a mod I admire tremendously. HUGE kudos to the modder!

So, if I can summon them via Fate Spirit I will love to see the end of this fascinating love story!

All the work that went into this shows. It's fantastic!

Just please let them be summonable by the Fate Spirit because I don't think I can do another entire SOA with Kiyone again. I'm so sorry, but I have to be honest. I've had enough of her for SoA.

Well...I suppose the fact that she makes me feel so strongly shows how good a character she is. LOL