Jump to content


Photo

Torture descriptions mod


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
70 replies to this topic

#1 Delight

Delight
  • Member
  • 660 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 06:21 AM

This mod idea came to me during discussions about rape in BG2. Some people suggested that rape is a no-no cRPGs because it is closer to our own reality than torture dealt by Irenicus.

So I think BG2 doesn't really show what <CHARNAME> has went through and what impact on em. Tortures are only shown as casting of spells on PC, but we don't know what <CHARNAME> feels.
Also we see only a few moments of "tortures". All of this makes player very distanced from PC.

I remember that when I was reading about tortures in George Orwell's 1984 the pain of protagonist was almost palpable, so I think that the fact that people are distanced from tortures because "it's not part of their reality" is a result of incompetence of writers.

I think that a mod that would add tortures as a serie of cutscenes with verbose descriptions of tortures and some possible responses would portray the subject better.
...

#2 -Guest-

-Guest-
  • Guest

Posted 30 April 2006 - 07:34 AM

What? Like "OW."
"PLEASE STOP."
"NO MORE! PLEASE! I BEG YOU."

#3 Creepin

Creepin
  • Administrator
  • 1676 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 08:24 AM

I'm afraid it would be a bit too morbid to be fun :(
What is good in serious dystopia novel is inappropriate in computer game.

The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)


#4 Delight

Delight
  • Member
  • 660 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 09:04 AM

Who says that BG2 should be "fun"?

BG2 with it's abductions, tortures, slums, everpresent corruption, cloaked wizards, anti-mages terror, and cyborg-like golems is grim and serious in comparision to BG1 and other IE games.
I remember that a lot of players in my country complained that BG2 has more in common with Cyberpunk than with Forgotten Realms.

I think that computer cRPGs like BG2 should be treated as serious games too.

Edited by Delight, 30 April 2006 - 09:09 AM.

...

#5 Grim Squeaker

Grim Squeaker

    Fallen

  • Member
  • 1018 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 09:11 AM

Yeah but what do you actually gain from reading line after line of 'Irenicus slices your cock in half' other than going 'what the fuck's wrong with the person who wrote this?'
"You alone can make my song take flight..."

#6 the bigg

the bigg

    2083 is a prime number.

  • Modder
  • 3331 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 09:14 AM

Well, there are people who enjoy TDD, so anything can be enjoyed by some in BG2 :D

(also, RTW).

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
Maintainer: Semi-Multi Clerics - Nalia Mod - Nvidia Fix
Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.


#7 Delight

Delight
  • Member
  • 660 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 09:21 AM

Yeah but what do you actually gain from reading line after line of 'Irenicus slices your cock in half' other than going 'what the fuck's wrong with the person who wrote this?'

I rather thought about something more suggestive and descriptive.
...

#8 Creepin

Creepin
  • Administrator
  • 1676 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 09:33 AM

Who says that BG2 should be "fun"?

*looking around* Huh? No one says it? Well, I guess that it falls to me then.
Oooh-kay... BG2 should be fun :D

No, seriously - all this abductions, corruption, killing and other likewise stuff is indeed fun as long as it doesn't involve player (not his protagonist!) directly. BTW, speaking of rape & TDD - yeah, it was fun as well to butcher this jailor that raped Viconia :devil: But the very moment when you'll make player to actually "feel" the torture, to share feelings of protagonist being tortured - nah, it wouldn't be fun anymore.

I think that computer cRPGs like BG2 should be treated as serious games too.

I do believe that there's no such thing as "serious game". It's either game or something serious :)

Edited by Creepin, 30 April 2006 - 09:35 AM.

The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)


#9 Grunker

Grunker

    Prince Charming

  • Member
  • 1240 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 10:33 AM

I do believe that there's no such thing as "serious game". It's either game or something serious


Argh! Who dares intrude upon the sacred ground that is Planescape: Torment?!? FLAME! :devil:

*Coughs* Sorry 'bout that. No, seriously, I bet people said that about books once. And also about movies. Games can have serious points, there's nothing preventing them from it.

@Delight:

Hrhrm...

In PS:T you truly felt the agony of the protagonist, without any terribly detailed torture sequences, where the pain of the Nameless One was so explicitly outlined that you almost hurled. Baldur's Gate doesn't need more torture to make it a serious game, it needs a whole new (i.e. darker) setting. So unless you wan't to remake the whole game into a game with a dark atmosphere, I don't see how you would make it more serious. It's hardly serious to be thrown into a horrifying torture scene, after which you crawl into the overall bright Baldur's Gate game.

Edited by Grunker, 30 April 2006 - 10:36 AM.

"I've heard people complain that the game [the new Prince of Persia] is too easy, which seems odd to me, since I died more times than The Nameless One in a smoothie-maker."

- Yahtzee

#10 Delight

Delight
  • Member
  • 660 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 11:27 AM

No, seriously - all this abductions, corruption, killing and other likewise stuff is indeed fun as long as it doesn't involve player (not his protagonist!) directly. BTW, speaking of rape & TDD - yeah, it was fun as well to butcher this jailor that raped Viconia :devil: But the very moment when you'll make player to actually "feel" the torture, to share feelings of protagonist being tortured - nah, it wouldn't be fun anymore.

It already involves player.

I think that computer cRPGs like BG2 should be treated as serious games too.

I do believe that there's no such thing as "serious game". It's either game or something serious :)

I see that you don't know too much about RPGs. There a lot of serious games out there, Vampire: The Masquerade or The Call Of Cthulhu for example.
I never played any of those, but when I was a kid I've read a lot of polish Magia i Miecz (Sword & Sorcery) magazines and I've learned a lot about roleplaying characters and I know that such game doesn't have to be funny or even pleasant. The most important thing is feeling what character should feel and acting as character should act.

Sometimes it means deadly serious or morbid things. Suffering is also roleplaying.


In PS:T you truly felt the agony of the protagonist, without any terribly detailed torture sequences, where the pain of the Nameless One was so explicitly outlined that you almost hurled. Baldur's Gate doesn't need more torture to make it a serious game, it needs a whole new (i.e. darker) setting. So unless you wan't to remake the whole game into a game with a dark atmosphere, I don't see how you would make it more serious. It's hardly serious to be thrown into a horrifying torture scene, after which you crawl into the overall bright Baldur's Gate game.

I think that it would require different dialogues that show how trauma of being tortured has affected PC rather than a new setting. It's not an unheard thing that a tortured person is released into a overall bright world, but ey doesn't cease to be a victim of torture.
...

#11 SConrad

SConrad

    I swear to drunk I'm not God

  • Administrator
  • 11148 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 11:29 AM

What we really need is more sex descriptions.

Posted Image Khadion NPC mod - Team leader, head designer
Posted Image Hubelpot NPC mod - Team leader, coder
Posted Image NPC Damage - Coder
Posted Image PC Soundsets - Coder, voice actor
Posted Image Brythe NPC mod - Designer
Posted Image DragonLance TC - Glory of Istar - Designer
Posted Image The NPC Interaction Expansion Project - Writer for Cernd, Sarevok
Posted Image The Jerry Zinger Show - Producer

Iron Modder 5 - Winner


#12 Creepin

Creepin
  • Administrator
  • 1676 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 11:54 AM

But the very moment when you'll make player to actually "feel" the torture, to share feelings of protagonist being tortured - nah, it wouldn't be fun anymore.

It already involves player.

To a certain degree. Wasn't your original idea exactly about increasing this degree of involvement? :huh:

I do believe that there's no such thing as "serious game". It's either game or something serious :)

I see that you don't know too much about RPGs. There a lot of serious games out there, Vampire: The Masquerade or The Call Of Cthulhu for example.
I never played any of those, but when I was a kid I've read a lot of polish Magia i Miecz (Sword & Sorcery) magazines and I've learned a lot about roleplaying characters and I know that such game doesn't have to be funny or even pleasant. The most important thing is feeling what character should feel and acting as character should act.

Sometimes it means deadly serious or morbid things. Suffering is also roleplaying.

Ah, now I see. It seems that your mention of Orwell confuses me, so apparently we were talking about different kinds of "seriousness". :doh:

I do agree that one could roleplay practically anything, pain and suffering included, but how many players do you think would really want or enjoy in-depth roleplaying suffering? :rolleyes:

P.S. I believe I have a fair chance to win should we start "CRPG's played" contest, so let's just skip it perhaps? :cheers:

Edited by Creepin, 30 April 2006 - 12:06 PM.

The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)


#13 Grim Squeaker

Grim Squeaker

    Fallen

  • Member
  • 1018 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 12:11 PM

What we really need is more sex descriptions.


K&Z/Circle crossmod?

(I'll be honest, I almost accidently typed KFC/Circle crossmod)
"You alone can make my song take flight..."

#14 Delight

Delight
  • Member
  • 660 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 12:14 PM

I do agree that one could roleplay practically anything, pain and suffering included, but how many players do you think would really want or enjoy in-depth roleplaying suffering? :rolleyes:

All trve cvlt roleplaying fans :P .
...

#15 SConrad

SConrad

    I swear to drunk I'm not God

  • Administrator
  • 11148 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 12:15 PM


What we really need is more sex descriptions.

K&Z/Circle crossmod?

Yes, please.

Posted Image Khadion NPC mod - Team leader, head designer
Posted Image Hubelpot NPC mod - Team leader, coder
Posted Image NPC Damage - Coder
Posted Image PC Soundsets - Coder, voice actor
Posted Image Brythe NPC mod - Designer
Posted Image DragonLance TC - Glory of Istar - Designer
Posted Image The NPC Interaction Expansion Project - Writer for Cernd, Sarevok
Posted Image The Jerry Zinger Show - Producer

Iron Modder 5 - Winner


#16 Delight

Delight
  • Member
  • 660 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 12:19 PM

That would be a lot of writing.
...

#17 Archmage Silver

Archmage Silver

    Master of The Art

  • Member
  • 6654 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 12:40 PM

If you want more descriptive sex descriptions, you'll of course have to do the directly linked descriptions for drinking booze.

#18 Creepin

Creepin
  • Administrator
  • 1676 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 12:58 PM

So we're returning to the "Drinking mod" idea, the kind of seriousness I'm all for :whistling:

The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)


#19 -Ggib Eht-

-Ggib Eht-
  • Guest

Posted 30 April 2006 - 01:09 PM

K&Z/Circle crossmod?

As I already said, such a mod would be totally useless without gemRB :(

However, there is much request for Triangle mod, so that'll be my next goal. I'll start soon a poll asking for your favorite trio for the mod.

#20 Grim Squeaker

Grim Squeaker

    Fallen

  • Member
  • 1018 posts

Posted 30 April 2006 - 01:10 PM


K&Z/Circle crossmod?

As I already said, such a mod would be totally useless without gemRB :(

However, there is much request for Triangle mod, so that'll be my next goal. I'll start soon a poll asking for your favorite trio for the mod.


Sewage Golem, Phaere and Ao.
"You alone can make my song take flight..."