39 replies to this topic

[Azkyroth]

1. My web searches elsewhere aren't being helpful, so, rather than revive an old topic that touches on this tangentially: What exactly is an Archmage? A detailed (prestige?) class description would be useful, as would some clarification on what differentiates a "prestige class" from a normal class.

2. Any information about blackguards would be welcome, including campaign experiences with them and character examples.

3. On the Drow; I'm specifically interested in their language, mainly for replacing all the "mongrel"s in Viconia's current banters with Arkalian. Reference suggestions?

4. Are Fallen Paladins different in any meaningful way from normal fighters (in terms of abilities, etc.?)

[Grunker]

as would some clarification on what differentiates a "prestige class" from a normal class.

A prestige class is an area of specialization. It is exactly like a normal class in terms of rules except two things: They typically only offer 5-10 levels, and they have (sometimes strict) requirements for people who wish to play them. In addition, most prestige classes require a trainer. In the rule system, they function just like multi-classing. This can best be explained with an example:

John-Bob is a 7th level cleric. Therefore, he needs 28,000XP to get to level 8. When does raise a level, he would like to take a level in the prestige class ?Night Cloak?, a prestige class suitable for players who has Shar as their deity. As he meets the requirements he now takes a level in that prestige class. The first level of Night Cloak looks like this:

Class Level: 1st
Base Attack: +0
Fort Save: +2
Ref Save: +0
Will Save: +2
Special: Darkness Spells
Spells: +1 to existing spell-casting class


While the 7th level cleric looks like this:

Class Level: 7th
Base Attack: +5
Fort Save: +5
Ref Save: +2
Will Save: +5
Special:
Spells per day: 6/4+1/3+1/2+1/1+1

Therefore, John-Bobs base class would look like this as he reaches 8th level:

John Bob, level 7th Cleric/level 1st Night Cloak:

Base Attack: +5
Fort Save: +7
Ref Save: +2
Will Save: +7
Special: Rebuke Undead, Darkness Spells
Spells per day: 6/4+1/3+1/3+1/2+1 (Because the Night Cloak class gives +1 level to John-Bob?s existing spell-casting class!)

The Base Attack Bonus for the Night Cloak is +1 at level 2, which means John-Bob will have Base Attack Bonus +6/+1 when he reaches that level.

1. My web searches elsewhere aren't being helpful, so, rather than revive an old topic that touches on this tangentially: What exactly is an Archmage? A detailed (prestige?) class description would be useful

The Archmage is an example of a Prestige Class, a prestige class for a high level mage. One of the requirements is to be able to cast 7th level spells. This Prestige Class can be found in the Forgotten Realms Campaign (it would take me an hour to list description here).

2. Any information about blackguards would be welcome, including campaign experiences with them and character examples.

Blackguard is a Prestige Class found in the Dungeon Master?s Guide. I can?t give examples on them in gameplay, because I never played with one. Frankly, I find them quite boring.

4. Are Fallen Paladins different in any meaningful way from normal fighters (in terms of abilities, etc.?)

Very much so. The Fallen Paladin does not get any of the Fighter?s bonus feats. If you check out the link in my signature, you will find a book with, amongst other things, an easy way to handle evil/neutral paladins. I?ve never liked the idea that paladins had to be Lawful Good.

Hope that helps

PS. This is only for D&D, mind you. Prestige Classes do not excist in AD&D.

EDIT: Easier to read now

Edited by Grunker, 28 May 2006 - 02:23 PM.

[Archmage Silver]

3. On the Drow; I'm specifically interested in their language, mainly for replacing all the "mongrel"s in Viconia's current banters with Arkalian. Reference suggestions?

This is arguably the best drow dictionary/translator out there: http://www.grey-comp...ces/translator/

[Grunker]

As a suplement to Arch's post, mongrel can't be translated into drow

[Azkyroth]

As a suplement to Arch's post, mongrel can't be translated into drow

How did you know....

*blinks, wonders*

So with respect to the 2E rules, would it be appropriate to describe a fallen paladin who'd gone on to gain levels in something else as "Fallen Paladin X/Otherclass Y" or...?

And was the difference between blackguards and anti-paladins ever settled?

[Grunker]

You're playing 2E AD&D? That explains so much

Prestige classes do not excist in Advanced Dungeons and Dragons (AD&D), only in D&D 3rd Edition. A fallen paladin is indeed EXACTLY like a fighter, with the sole exception being the difference in XP. In 2E AD&D, it requires more experience to rise in Paladin levels. Therefore, a fallen paladin is a fighter that requires more XP to gain levels.

EDIT: As for Blackguards: Blackguards are a prestigeclass from D&D. I'm not sure there excists something like a Blackguard in AD&D, and if it does, it would probably be a kit. Never heard of an anti-paladin before.

Edited by Grunker, 29 May 2006 - 12:22 PM.

[Azkyroth]

You're playing 2E AD&D? That explains so much

Prestige classes do not excist in Advanced Dungeons and Dragons (AD&D), only in D&D 3rd Edition. A fallen paladin is indeed EXACTLY like a fighter, with the sole exception being the difference in XP. In 2E AD&D, it requires more experience to rise in Paladin levels. Therefore, a fallen paladin is a fighter that requires more XP to gain levels.

EDIT: As for Blackguards: Blackguards are a prestigeclass from D&D. I'm not sure there excists something like a Blackguard in AD&D, and if it does, it would probably be a kit. Never heard of an anti-paladin before.

I'm researching a BG2 mod, actually. 2E (2.5E?) AD&D was what I recalled it using.

[Grunker]

Well, then from where do the questions about Blackguards and Archmages stem? Or have your questions already been answered satifactually?

[Azkyroth]

Well, then from where do the questions about Blackguards and Archmages stem? Or have your questions already been answered satifactually?

Because those terms have been used in the game or its mods and would seem to connote something relevant to what I have in mind. As for an answer, I've got a bit, but mainly I'm getting a rather strong connotation of "creative license" in the imperative...

[Azkyroth]

Incidentally, how widely known are the Kraken Society and the Twisted Rune? [EDIT] largely irrelevant with the latest dialogue revision.

Oh, right, what I was meaning to ask before the hard disk crash. What exactly is a "cantrip" in terms of game mechanics and concept?

Edited by Azkyroth, 31 May 2006 - 03:00 AM.

[Grunker]

In AD&D, cantrip is a spell that lets you perform small changes in the physical world: Make a rose appear out of nowhere, make a short flash of light with your hand, get a stone to fly one inch.

In D&D, cantrips are 0-level spells. The equvilant of AD&D's cantrip is called Prestidigitation.

[Azkyroth]

In AD&D, cantrip is a spell that lets you perform small changes in the physical world: Make a rose appear out of nowhere, make a short flash of light with your hand, get a stone to fly one inch.

In D&D, cantrips are 0-level spells. The equvilant of AD&D's cantrip is called Prestidigitation.

As such minor spells, do they even require memorization? They don't even appear in any of the games I've played, though they don't do much that's useful in-game either... *ponders*

[Cantrip]

All spells for Wizards require memorization.
You did not have 0 level spells in 2ed (AD&D) at all. You could memorize "Cantrip", instead of say "Magic Missile". Not all mages know that spell. Some Dms I know let players cast "Cantrip" as a Spell-Like Ability in AD&D, 1+INT bonus times per day.
"Cantrip" is one of THE most useful spells in D&D. Do you clean yourself (with soap?), Make bland food tasty (salt?) or earn money at a tavern as a performer? Cantrip can do all these. For 1 hour, what's more. You can perform most mundane things with it.

Archmage, if that is still relevent, is here: http://www.d20srd.or...es/archmage.htm.
0
Blackguard: http://www.d20srd.or.../blackguard.htm

Edited by Cantrip, 31 May 2006 - 10:41 PM.

[Grunker]

As such minor spells, do they even require memorization? They don't even appear in any of the games I've played, though they don't do much that's useful in-game either... *ponders*

These spells are featured in Pool of Radiance II: Ruins of Myth Drannor, Temple of Elemental Evil and Neverwinter Nights.

And yes, they do require memorization (becoming a mage doesn't mean you create rays of frost at will).

But this isn't really relevant to you if you're playing AD&D. Then there's just the spell "cantrip" to worry about.

[Azkyroth]

Some Dms I know let players cast "Cantrip" as a Spell-Like Ability in AD&D, 1+INT bonus times per day.

But this occupies a spell slot while allowing the spell to be used more than once before the slot was depleted? Or...?

Archmage, if that is still relevent, is here: http://www.d20srd.or...es/archmage.htm.
0
Blackguard: http://www.d20srd.or.../blackguard.htm

I assume when the term "archmage" is used in the TOB dialogue it's being used in a non-technical sense, then?

Also... I recall seeing mention elsewhere in this forum of certain deities sponsoring anti-paladins and/or blackguards. Anyone have a list of those, offhand?

[Cantrip]

Some Dms I know let players cast "Cantrip" as a Spell-Like Ability in AD&D, 1+INT bonus times per day.

But this occupies a spell slot while allowing the spell to be used more than once before the slot was depleted? Or...?

It's in addition to other spells. Think of it as several extra slots purely for this spell.

Archmage, if that is still relevent, is here: http://www.d20srd.or...es/archmage.htm.
0
Blackguard: http://www.d20srd.or.../blackguard.htm

I assume when the term "archmage" is used in the TOB dialogue it's being used in a non-technical sense, then?

Yep. They imply they are very powerful mages, that's all.

Also... I recall seeing mention elsewhere in this forum of certain deities sponsoring anti-paladins and/or blackguards. Anyone have a list of those, offhand?

Cyric the black sun is the most common, but blackguards of Gruumash and other evil deities are also commonplace.

[Grunker]

I thought Bane was the main sponsor?

[Cantrip]

I thought Bane was the main sponsor?

Isn't he missing at the moment?

[Grunker]

True, in Baldur's Gate he is, of course.

I'm mixing the new campaign (1372DR) in which he returned, with the time in Baldur's Gate, sorry

Edited by Grunker, 02 June 2006 - 09:18 AM.

[Azkyroth]

Does this bear any relation to the canonical concept of a Blackguard? Particularly the last ability, the one following which they can only be permanently killed with a Wish (a trait they share with some 2E monsters)? Also, I recall reading somewhere in my research that a Wish can't be used to kill someone; is there any canonical support for this and would it preclude using wishes to make unnatural creatures "stay dead?"