29 replies to this topic

[MrFaust]

Hello, long time fan of the series. For a number of years i've been hunting around for a custom Death Knight Kit, just never seemed to happen (well there was one but it makes no sense at all) so I figured this would be the place to ask if someone was willing to take the time to do so. Im a fan of the dragonlance series and fell in love with the Lord Soth character. I thought it would be great if one could set into his shoes so to speak. So all im asking is for a Death Knight Kit for BG2 (if willing both games would be nice too)

I hate asking for such a thing because I am sure people have better things to do then make a Kit for a old school geek, and i would like to teach myself how to mod but i really dont have the time anymore being a parent and all. The few hours i get here and there i like to spend relaxing and playing a game. Anyhow I'd be willing to throw a couple of bucks anyones way whom decides to take this on, I believe in paying for work well done. Anyhow it would mean alot if someone could do this for me and if you have any questions or need infomation on the Death Knight please let me know.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Kit description?
Base Class?
Advantages?
Disadvantages?
And vilkacis might just take pity on you, for free.

Sorcerer's Place Collection(Death Knight Human Fighter Kit, by Drizzt1180)

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 28 September 2009 - 11:31 PM.

[MrFaust]

thanks for the reply, thats the kit i gave a shot but didn't like it in the lest bit. In no way resembles a Death Knight of any edition, maybe a black guard. Anyhow I was talking to Zyraen about an idea i had where the Death Knight would be a hidden kit. I am looking to base the Death Knight off of second edition, i'll have to find a 2e monster manual to get all their stats and abilities.

The basic idea would be that you play as a Paladin and would have to meet a level requirement then fall (after you hit or pass the required level) then die in the game. A dark god will offer you life anew if you surve as his Evil Chamipon. Just a idea but i thought it would be something worth looking into.

Edited by MrFaust, 29 September 2009 - 09:21 AM.

[Miloch]

There is a death knight in BG1 not far off from 2nd ed. stats (deathkni.cre - called "Demon Knight"). I think it'd be pretty unbalancing as a kit - 75% magic resistance with 10% chance of spell reflection, constant Fear radiation, power over undead, bunch of free spells, etc. Maybe it'd work as a high-level quest for an evil character, I dunno.

[vilkacis]

I don't remember seeing any death knights, but there is a blackguard kit in G3's Sword and Fist and yet another one in "Luizmods" at Sorcerer's Place (seems to be something different from the one Jarno posted).


Miloch: He doesn't have to get all those things at once - I could see a fighter kit with a small MR % per level, a special ability every couple of levels (maybe with some of the stronger ones becoming HLAs) and an XP penalty (to simulate a pally/ranger table). ...then make him immune to healing magic / potions 'cause he's undead.


Jarno: try not to give people the impression that I am some sort of magical mod-making machine. I took on Stardusk's idea because it was something I felt I could accomplish relatively quickly and painlessly (and it wasn't even that painless, I've just fixed like the fifth bug in that thing), but that doesn't mean I can take on every kit idea that gets posted here.

[MrFaust]

Thats what I was thinking, that these abilities will get spread over X amount of levels and made for a higher level character. I think it would best fit in BG2 given the theme.

As for Vikacis, I'm sorry for shooting you a message. Jarno was just trying to be friendly, no harm done.

Edited by MrFaust, 29 September 2009 - 02:05 PM.

[Miloch]

Miloch: He doesn't have to get all those things at once - I could see a fighter kit with a small MR % per level, a special ability every couple of levels

True, but...

The basic idea would be that you play as a Paladin and would have to meet a level requirement then fall (after you hit or pass the required level) then die in the game. A dark god will offer you life anew if you surve as his Evil Chamipon. Just a idea but i thought it would be something worth looking into.

This sounds more like a quest (as it should be) rather than a kit anyone can choose on creation, and a quest for a specific character class (fallen paladin) at that. Maybe that's the concept of "hidden kits" though - you can have more kits beyond the 9 per class/race combo - you just can't see them in the creation GUI (however, you *can* if you don't have that many kits installed).

Now of course, if you want this kit for your PC, you can't actually "die" (because that ends the game) but I suppose the quest could give him the appearance of dying. Obviously, a quest is a lot more to code than a simple kit though (usually).

[MrFaust]

I like the idea of a quest is just about what the Hidden Kit is. You cant get this Kit upon creation nor as a level requirement but as a quest for a fallen Paladin, makes perfect sence. Could be a simple concept, a one time quest after a number of levels had been gained as a paladin then of course you have to fall and perhaps a evil god wither it be Cyric or Mask offer you unlimited power for your service as you lay dying. I like it.

[sotona]

The complete description of the Death Knight class can be found, for example, in the d20 sourcebook called "secret college of necromancy". I myself had the same idea some time ago, but, like it usually happens, I was too lazy to start to do anything.

[MrFaust]

Zyrean and I have been brain storming and came up with some real good ideas. this would be a hidden quest that would unlock the kit. so you wouldn't be able to start as a death knight and would have to meet a number of requirements. Being that a death knight gets some massive abilities i have to figure out a way to spread them out over X amount of levels. Any help would be great, ill make a post for the proposed mod tomrrow with what i got so far. also managed to write a simple script for the quest aswell.

[vilkacis]

I have an old issue of Dragon here (shut up, I read it for the articles) that discusses death knights and using them as NPCs.

They use the paladin/ranger XP table.

Magic resistance starts at 30%, +5%/level to a maximum of 95%.

They save as fighters or priests, whichever is better.

Abilities are gained as follows.
Lv 4: radiates fear in a 5' radius, detect magic and detect invisibility at will.
Lv 5: dispel magic twice per day.
Lv 6: wall of ice at will.
Lv 7: cast one of the following spells once per day: power word stun, power word kill or power word blind.
Lv 8: cast symbol of fear and symbol of pain once per day.
lv 9: cast fireball once per day.
All abilities function at twice the death knight's own level, to a maximum of 20th level.

The problem with this list is that this is for regular AD&D, not a "turn EPIC up to 11!" crpg. If you add 10 to all those numbers and start off at lv12 or so, I guess you could pretty much use it as is, but it's still kind of wonky (power word kill before fireball?).

When a DK performs an act of "pure, unmitigated, imaginative evil" (like corrupting a LG character), it gains +10% to its STR (but this assumes the knight is created with 18 base and rolls 1d100 for exceptional STR.) This is supposed to get more difficult every time, so a DK with high STR will have to be "extremely inventive in his evil". ALso: "There are rumours that some death knights, bu achieving acts of unspeakable horror and depravity, have actually advanced their undead strength beyond the 18(00) limit and up to 19 or 20". (HLA: +1 STR, can be picked twice? Or something.)

Can not be turned, but can be dispelled by holy word. (...I don't like it. If priests can turn liches, I don't see why a death knight would be different. </pro-lich_bias>)

They have a chance to get magical weapons "automatically" (they'll be "placed where the DK will find it"). However, all those weapons pretty much suck compared to BG2 stuff, so it can be ignored. (It's a d6 roll for a long sword +2, 2H sword +3, 2H sword +4, short sword of quickness, short sword of dancing or short sword of life stealing, if anyone cares to know. The chance is 10% per level, rolled once for every level, so a 5th-level DK gets to roll five times at 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50%. He can only get one weapon in this manner, so it won't get replaced if he loses it.)

On the negative side, no DK can "use a potion or item that must be ingested, since it has no natural bodily functions and cannot eat, drink or breathe, even if it desired".

The article also gives a table for rolling up stats. STR is 18(1d100) as previously stated; CON 14 +1d4; DEX 12 +1d6; INT 8 +1d10; WIS 8 +1d10; and CHA 10 +1d8.

...I think that's pretty much all the important bits.

[Pandæmonium]

Say, is there a way to permanently apply things like radiate fear to an existing character via ShadowKeeper?

[MrFaust]

Hey thanks alot Vilkacis, this saves me alot of time. I was thinking of starting the quest at 20th level, so at that point you are already pretty beef and can survive with out the ability to heal.. Though negitive engery should be able to do so but i dont really know how that would work in game. I've managed to make a basic storyline for the quest just need someone who can make the mods. Writing is about the best i can do.

[Daggoth]

just giving a opinion here but i think a Death Knight should be more along the lines of a fighter/necromancer than a paladin/ranger. I also think that being given these powers by a god is a bad route since CHARNAME is a god well at least has the potential to become one and owing another god a favor when your only a new made god is a bad place to be instead maby somthing like the way you become a lich would be better. that said these are only my opinions and since im realitively new to these fourms I relise my opinions dont count for as much but i hope they help

[Slyde]

Now of course, if you want this kit for your PC, you can't actually "die" (because that ends the game) but I suppose the quest could give him the appearance of dying. Obviously, a quest is a lot more to code than a simple kit though (usually).

Perhaps if it was scripted that when a quest (i.e. this is a hidden kit) is completed an effect comes into . . . effect, the PC can't die, able to only reduce the CHARNAME to 1hp, like the Imoen belt. And then have it so that when CHARNAME reaches 1hp dialog is triggered, like certain lovetalks, that produces the necessary changes to the character. (At this time the immunity to death is removed) However this may interrupt the flow of the battle, so CHARNAME could be immobilized and prone at 1hp with the immunity and with a timer, so the dialogue is triggered later (and presumably AFTER the battle and before another one (seriously, who is going to leave WITHOUT CHARNAME?)(Is there a way to detect enemies present like the rest interruption, to prevent ANY interruption of battle ). A way to "die" without dieing, without a big (usually inescapable, which bugs me) lead up to the PC's death.
Sorry if that was confusing, I tried to give existing examples and don't know how easy/hard it is, thats just what came to mind as I read the page.

The "immunity" to healing is a pretty cool idea, especially if you can implement the healing by Neg. Energy (you'd then need to have to include more access to neg. energy things rather then other types of damage, like elemental).

In any case :thumbs: I like the idea.



Oh and as for "I have an old issue of Dragon here"
I have access to a few issues . . . which one , just for ideas.

EDIT: As for

realitively new to these fourms I relise my opinions dont count for as much but i hope they help

I see no reason why your opinions would count any less, as long as they are offered in a constructive manner. (which it was). And you may have a point, but the game is populated with over-powered characters.

Edited by Slyde, 05 October 2009 - 03:32 AM.

[vilkacis]

Say, is there a way to permanently apply things like radiate fear to an existing character via ShadowKeeper?

It would be better to ask this in modding help, but I'm leaving it here since it's relevant to the death knight as well. (I was hoping someone who actually knows something about this would post an answer, but... apparently not. )

I think it would be hard to accomplish with SK. With a proper modding tool like NI or DLTCEP, it should be possible - I'm thinking the "use EFF file on condition" function could do that, set to apply the effect once per round. I'm not sure about the specifics, though... maybe you could just copy effects from a spell like Cloak of Fear.

Oh and as for "I have an old issue of Dragon here"
I have access to a few issues . . . which one , just for ideas.

222, october 2005.

EDIT: As for

realitively new to these fourms I relise my opinions dont count for as much but i hope they help

I see no reason why your opinions would count any less, as long as they are offered in a constructive manner. (which it was). And you may have a point, but the game is populated with over-powered characters.

This, but here it's not really a matter of opinions, since "death knight" means something quite specific within the setting - including the method of their creation and their attributes. You could make a pseudo-lich fighter/necro kind of character, but it wouldn't be a death knight.

[MrFaust]

Wow, didn't think there would be that much intrest for the class but it appears i was wrong.

just giving a opinion here but i think a Death Knight should be more along the lines of a fighter/necromancer than a paladin/ranger. I also think that being given these powers by a god is a bad route since CHARNAME is a god well at least has the potential to become one and owing another god a favor when your only a new made god is a bad place to be instead maby somthing like the way you become a lich would be better. that said these are only my opinions and since im realitively new to these fourms I relise my opinions dont count for as much but i hope they help

Well with the Death Knights abilities they are very much like a Fighter/Lich. Dare I say maybe even more powerful then a lich with all their abilities combined. I am thinking the quest should be very hard to come by being that you gain some very powerful abilities with of course the downside of not baign about to use healing in the lest bit.

Perhaps if it was scripted that when a quest (i.e. this is a hidden kit) is completed an effect comes into . . . effect, the PC can't die, able to only reduce the CHARNAME to 1hp, like the Imoen belt. And then have it so that when CHARNAME reaches 1hp dialog is triggered, like certain lovetalks, that produces the necessary changes to the character. (At this time the immunity to death is removed) However this may interrupt the flow of the battle, so CHARNAME could be immobilized and prone at 1hp with the immunity and with a timer, so the dialogue is triggered later (and presumably AFTER the battle and before another one (seriously, who is going to leave WITHOUT CHARNAME?)(Is there a way to detect enemies present like the rest interruption, to prevent ANY interruption of battle ). A way to "die" without dieing, without a big (usually inescapable, which bugs me) lead up to the PC's death.
Sorry if that was confusing, I tried to give existing examples and don't know how easy/hard it is, thats just what came to mind as I read the page.

Well my problem at this point is we have a few ideas for the basic plot outline for the quest that leads to the hidden kit but even so i still do not have a modder as of yet to create this in the first place. I am in talks with someone but i haven't gotton a yest or a no. More of less just lending a hand with ideas at this point so i dont want to make it too complicated for anyone whom take the idea on.

I mysellf would like to go ahead and create this bad boy but after having downloaded NI and a load of tutorials i find that when looking at the blasted program it appears alien to me no matter how i look at it. I'm alright with simple modding when there is a program that does most of it for me liker with neverwinter. Then again i could never figure out how to make this very same kit on their either.

[Miloch]

On the negative side, no DK can "use a potion or item that must be ingested, since it has no natural bodily functions and cannot eat, drink or breathe, even if it desired".

This would be very difficult to implement, if not impossible. The only way I can think of is to make it so Wizard Slayers (or some similar vanilla kit) can't use any potions (right now they can use heals at least, I think) then give the death knight the wizard slayer usabilities, which would mean no magic items either. You can't create new usability flags in the engine - it sucks. Could be there's some even nastier hackaround though.

[Daggoth]

This, but here it's not really a matter of opinions, since "death knight" means something quite specific within the setting - including the method of their creation and their attributes. You could make a pseudo-lich fighter/necro kind of character, but it wouldn't be a death knight.

im sorry but i must disagree in every D&D dungeons master guide ive ever had the privlage of reading it has stated at least once or twice that these rules (inculding when modified into AD&D for Baldur's Gate and other games) are just as I would put it a means to a end a way of puting you world and ideas into a form in witch you can tell a interactive story and therefore by no means are rules somthing that cannot be changed if in your world a Death Knight is a paladin/ranger thats fine but if its as you put it a pseudo-lich fighter/necro kind of character then so be it I mean by modding Baldur's Gate we are changing it to reflect what we want it to be not what its creators wanted it to be so who ever ends up making this mod (if anyone does) should make it how they want it or at least as close as the Infinity Engine will allow and the rest of us will either use it, not use it, or go make our own and use that one instead that said I think anyone who has a intrest in this mod should be able to put in their two cents worth but ultimatly its for the modder to decide and not a rulebook or magazine thats why the DM's guide has all those variant rules becuse its your choice not the games the game doesnt care its a object with no feelings and lets face it a modder is like a DM they can do what they want to the game provided they take the time and efort to do it and stay inside what the Infinity Engine can do and as long as they can figure out how to do what they want to do witch as im finding out from reading these fourms is the major limiting factor when it comes to modding this game well Ill stop boring everyone to death with this overly long post and get back to starting to learn modding and praying that i didnt anger anyone too much with this post

Edited by Daggoth, 05 October 2009 - 07:03 PM.

[Miloch]

well Ill stop boring everyone to death with this overly long post and get back to starting to learn modding and praying that i didnt anger anyone too much with this post

Hey, it wouldn't be a problem if you used a little more punctuation so it doesn't look like one big long sentence .

I don't think anyone's saying the death knight is a paladin (or ranger) kit. Rather, it's a fallen paladin that becomes something else entirely with the kit. All that is per the very first sentence of its description in the 2e monster manual:

A death knight is the horrifying corruption of a paladin or lawful good warrior cursed by the gods to its terrible form as punishment for betraying the code of honor it held in life.