90 replies to this topic

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

Well, strangely I can't reach the Workroom, so I'm writing this here. It may have some SPOILERS, so you can feel warned. First, I'd like to admire Dorotea for creating such a pleasent mod of the Redemption of Jonoleth Irenicus. I must note that I've tested this on the latest version of Ascension (1,15 I think) with only Unfinished Busyness taggled on...

As far as everybody is concerned the original form of Redemption mod is developping around the Redemption of the infamous Shadows of Amn Mage, who imprisoned you, tortured you, raped you and so on unpleasent things. After you have beat his ass from earth to Hell, Redemption Longer Road gives you an opportunity to revive him and play in a party with him. Dorotea had explained that getting Irenicus redeemed can be difficult. Here I have to disagree. The right answers of the dialogues are at best at mere difficulty. I have passed Watcher's Keep and although Irenicus' banters are developping guite well.

GOOD: Redemption the Longer Road is one of the most ambitious projects based on Throne of Bhaal and the only Irenicus mod I've ever seen, which is so closely touching the game itself. It's very good. I'm quite satisfied from what I saw, while realising that there are still bugs to clean up, it's a fantastic and ambitious project by an ambitious woman as well. Redemption the Longer Road is made... with love. Which is quite strange. It's made with love... towards Throne of Bhaal, towards Irenicus, even towards Bio Ware . I won't tell you anything more about the banters - they are very good and well placed. Interesting all the way and giving even more about the famous villian. You'll see them by yourselves in the final version.

BAD: Irenicus come in your party in level 30. He has all the spells available and his Intelligence is 22 and with 4 more spells per level. While I realise that Jonolaeth is a mage of great power I can't say that this is a "good-looking" picture.
Imagine this: 6 Fire Giants start moving towards you. Irenicus step infront and... the battle ends. He simply cast Wish or Time Stop or... anything else you want and... he erase the enemies. There is simply no match for him! Which means: Wish --> double Time Stop and Improve Ala. --> death for the enemies... He casts his spells very fast. I imagine with the Robe of Vecna what will happen afterwards... It will be even "uglier" picture. Simply there really isn't anything that can outmatch him.

BUGS: There really are some bugs. After I finished Watcher's Keep I just couldn't continue after killing Yaga Shura. There is a bug when Irenicus came to talk to me after the cutscenes and Mellisan. And I encountered another one when I was in Yaga Shura lair, where one woman is chained and prays for help. Hopefully this will be fixed.

IN THE END: Without two or three flaws in the Redemption the Longer Road, I think it's really one of the best mods I've ever seen. Hopefully the creator will release it this automn and thus everybody will enjoy it. Because it's great and fucking priseless to see it in it full glory. I can't wait, that's for sure...

TOTAL MARK: 9/10

Edited by Elan Morin Tedronai, 18 August 2004 - 05:28 AM.

[SimDing0]

BAD: Irenicus come in your party in level 30. He has all the spells available and his Intelligence is 22 and with 4 more spells per level. While I realise that Jonolaeth is a mage of great power I can't say that this is a "good-looking" picture.
Imagine this: 6 Fire Giants start moving towards you. Irenicus step infront and... the battle ends. He simply cast Wish or Time Stop or... anything else you want and... he erase the enemies. There is simply no match for him! Which means: Wish --> double Time Stop and Improve Ala. --> death for the enemies... He casts his spells very fast. I imagine with the Robe of Vecna what will happen afterwards... It will be even "uglier" picture. Simply there really isn't anything that can outmatch him.

I'd encourage some reconsideration of the design here. Have some excuse for him being lower level than when you fight him, if need be, but being so much more powerful than anyone else isn't good. Also, why does he have all spells available? Theme them a bit to the sort of guy he is, rather than letting him have everything. Intelligence of 22 is also questionnably high, to me.

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

Still, I would welcome help to make the enemies tougher in certain encounters... but no way I am culling Irenicus too much -- he already has 2 major disadvantages that EMT did not mention: he is not resurrectable and he falls under charm/confusion together with PC when PC does.

for which I sincerely sorry.

but still, Irenicus is really very powerful. I suggest not removing entirely the +affect of the mask. lower it a bit. 4 is much. 2 is enough. :thumb:

[Galactygon]

If the guy is capable of escaping Spellhold on his own and slaughtering half Athkatla's Cowlies he has to be somewhat better mage than any other in-game npc. I shall do some more twinking, maybe remove the int+ effect form the mask... it is not going to affect things but will make everybody feel better I bet.

You can always make up an excuse for being weaker, such as the weakening effect he had when he was 'residing' in the nine hells (or was it the abyss?).

-Galactygon

[Arcalian]

Well, I AM a powergamer, and I want my ubermage! Even giving some concessions to the other side, he should at least be 3 levels higher than the highest level party member upon joining, and have more spell capacity.

[Galactygon]

Dorotea, you can certainly make an optional component on this matter.

-Galactygon

[Laufey]

I think devamping him will damage the story line. He is supposed to be super-duper-uber powerful to tempt PC who is already assembled a group of super-beings into taking him along, so dropping him to Edwin's level will suspend this plot point. Plus, again, making him weaker will have "Why Gorion my powerful father did not have a teleport spell?" effect. It's probably a single mod where uber-powerful NPC is a necessary thing. Plus, it is also important in the finale of the mod.

I must agree with this. If Irenicus is not presented as the extremely powerful mage he is shown to be in SoA, I think big gaping plot holes would appear all over the mod.

And of course, he may be a powerful mage, but having him in the party won't be all peaches and cream in any way...the player had best be prepared to deal with the consequences of whichever decisions they make regarding Irenicus.

[icelandismine]

Sorry. I don't know if this has been posted already, but it's far to early for me to read this much.

Going through Hell, dying twice, having a soul ripped from your body, that can't be a pleasent experience....In 3rd edition, you lose a level just for being normally ressurected. Irenicus has had anything but a normal and pleasent death and ressurection. That has to take a beating on his soul.

Tone him down a bit, level 20 would br excellent. (I think, not a play tester so take my suggestions woorht a grain of salt.)

[SimDing0]

I think these are quite enough to balance him as a best npc mage in the game... Nerfing him more will defy the purpose of the mod. And I think it is time for a mod the purpose of playing which will be to roleplay, explore your own inner self, and uncover some mysteries of the past... and well as learn a few important facts about morality. I am sorely tired of the mods aimed on either more sexual gratification or more difficult fights , both categories are entertaining only to a certain point.

Wait... if it's all about role-playing, surely his stats and so on shouldn't be as important as other aspects of his personality?