90 replies to this topic

[SimDing0]

By your own admission, Dorotea is using the most "consistent" version of Irenicus. By that logic she is using an "Authentic" Irenicus. Your argument trips over itself.

"Authentic" as in "the creature Bioware copied from Elminster", yes. That sounds like just the sort of thing it's sensible to base the mod on.

What you are really saying is, you want a weaker Irenicus.

Sorry, who are you to question my motives? Based on what I've said, he may as well be made stronger. I'm saying the reasonning behind his stats is silly.

It seems that what you want is "your" version of an Irenicus mod, as Domi said.  Expecting Dorotea to create a mod to your specifications is worse than "if you dont like it, dont play it"; it was, in fact "if it isn't the way I want it to be, it's automatically wrong".

You misunderstand me. I don't want an Irenicus mod. I'm merely pointing out inconsistencies in the reasonning behind the stats. It makes little difference to me whether or not there are any changes made.

Which is, yes indeed, pathetic.

Hmm. You're right, your fantasy of my motivations is certainly pretty pathetic. I'm glad you're enjoing it.

[SimDing0]

That was a very honest admission. Thank you. Then why are you arguing the case of a mod that you apriori will not like or play? I am seriously puzzled... mind it, I don't call you pathetic or anything (Arcalian that was impolite btw). I just think this argument is pointless if you dislike the mod and only continuing the discussion to have the last word.

It's not a dislike of the mod so much as an indifference. As much as it might come across as playing devil's advocate, I tend to consider it worth trying to provide (what I consider) helpful input even into mods which I don't have a particular interest in. I certainly don't post here for my own benefit.

[Galactygon]

The alignment really is chaotic good... I remember as a newb I wanted to make Jon Irenicus tougher, so I entered a search for all creatures named 'Jon Irenicus'. I found... dozens of such creatures. So I looked in each of them until I found the ones with the neutral evil alignment and a single class mage class. Those were the ones used for the actual battles...

Do you wish for a screenshot for proof? I am more than happy to provide one.

-Galactygon

Edited by Galactygon, 20 August 2004 - 01:45 PM.

[dorotea]

It's not a dislike of the mod so much as an indifference.

Chuckle. The allow me to express my indifference to your opinion. IMHO only acutely interested critic can provide a valuable input, otherwise it is just idle banter.

[SimDing0]

Chuckle. The allow me to express my indifference to your opinion. IMHO only acutely interested critic can provide a valuable input, otherwise it is just idle banter.

Um. That's interesting. I've always thought anyone can provide input, but eh.

[Andrew]

Why are we arguing over this mod...and it hasn't even come out yet . I think Dorotea worked really really hard on it and we should all show her our graditude and appreciation. Dont get me wrong, opinions are welcome but before we make any dramatic changes to this mod, we should all play it thoroughly once or twice.

[Laufey]

But anyway, I don't see how playing it would make me any more qualified to say what I have. Please point out anywhere I'm making an assumption that might be changed by playing the game.

Well, quite frankly, before you have played the mod you don't know how the plot is set up, and you cannot know what the reasons are for having Irenicus appear in the form that he does.

Mind you, I'm not trying to say that you can't have an opinion - only that more info might lead you to change that opinion.

Personally I think it makes sense that Irenicus should be clearly more powerful than your other NPC:s, if only given who he is and his history with you. The exact level of power is not something I have contemplated - I suppose it remains to be seen what the players think.

Edited by Laufey, 20 August 2004 - 02:46 PM.

[SimDing0]

Well, quite frankly, before you have played the mod you don't know how the plot is set up, and you cannot know what the reasons are for having Irenicus appear in the form that he does.

But I've been told it's only because Bioware coded him that way...

Wait. Why am I still here? Heh.

[Laufey]

Well, quite frankly, before you have played the mod you don't know how the plot is set up, and you cannot know what the reasons are for having Irenicus appear in the form that he does.

But I've been told it's only because Bioware coded him that way...

Wait. Why am I still here? Heh.

Because Bioware coded him that way is one reason, yes, but not the sole reason. There are events that take place, particularly towards the end of the mod, that I don't think would be plausible with a nerfed Irenicus.

I cannot, however, go into detail - that is Dorotea's prerogative.

[Arcalian]

Yes Dorotea, I was impolite. But I was also honest. You had tried being polite with him, as had others, and had not gotten through. On the other hand, it appears that *nothing at all* is getting through. So I have wasted my time, if nothing else.

[Littiz]

I'm waiting for this mod and I'll play it in any case, but allow me a couple of words about balance.

I'm *not* saying that the mod is unbalanced, of course, since I haven't played it yet.
I just want to warn you that the roleplaying factor, alone, isn't going to solve balance issues. As much as I agree that this mod focuses on roleplaying, I think that balance is always a primary issue nonetheless.

Why?
For the simple reasons that being overpowered kills the interest in gaming in the first place.
Where's the fun when fighting without opposition?
Ever played one of those conquest games, where at some point you become far stronger than anyone else, and soon you become so bored that you don't even keep the gaming to its conclusion?

I just wanted to emphatize that those who speak about balance don't do this as a rethoric exercise: I have personally excluded from my list many mods that proved capable of dimishing my interest in completing the current game.
That is to say that if you're after balance, you're after the success of the mod itself somehow
This is my opinion at least.

[maidros]

If Elminster has dexterity of 20 btw he is a fraud, he is no elf and he is 2000 old...

He needs it to make love to Mystra and fight Edwin after ToB - I am really waiting to get Laufey's Edwin mod to see what happens to Elminster.

[cabron]

I´m Ok with his stats, after all I´ve always thought that he SHOULD be one of the most powerfull wizards in Faeurun....but his starting level
Let me put it this way, if you played Shadows of Amn when it came out, and then almost a year latter got Throne of Baal, you character were probably on the lower twenties in their levels, so making a NPC character one powerful than your protagonist is kind of risky...my wizard was pretty good, and actually had INT of 21 (thanks to the magic tomes of BG 1 & the crazy machine in Watchers Keep) but Jon actually is much better...because of his level. Maybe he should start weakened (as the Nameless one from Torment does) because his ordeal in hell has left him weakened...almost a shade like Sarevok...but having a piece of the soul of the protagonist alows him to gradually recover his former might...

[dorotea]

Sim, I deleted your post because it was irrelevant to the content of this thread and only had a personal commentary that I perceived as offensive.

Arcalian, I kindly ask you NOT to retaliate.

Edited by dorotea, 26 August 2004 - 05:37 AM.

[dorotea]

my wizard was pretty good, and actually had INT of 21 (thanks to the magic tomes of BG 1 & the crazy machine in Watchers Keep) but Jon actually is much better...because of his level.

No, he was not better just because of his level, he is designed to be a better wizard than <CHARNAME> regardless of <CHARNAME>'s level -- he has a few perks that will make him better even if you export a 49 level character.

The mod plot requires this. If you noticed Jon is a tool given to you to counter the meddling of Cyric. Also him being a better wizard makes sense from purely logical point. Magic is one of the few careers in AD&D where experience actually matters more than anything else.

Edited by dorotea, 26 August 2004 - 05:42 AM.

[Arcalian]

:thumb:

Sim, I deleted your post because it was irrelevant to the content of this thread and only had a personal commentary that I perceived as offensive.

Arcalian, I kindly ask you NOT to retaliate.

Heh. Whatever it was, Dorotea, you deleted it before I could see it. But as my last post indicates, I've already moved on.

Let me take the thread just a tad off topic though and repeat a question I asked in another one that hasn't been answered. The exp cap has been raised to 40; what does that translate to in terms of character levels?

[Nebukad]

Let me take the thread just a tad off topic though and repeat a question I asked in another one that hasn't been answered. The exp cap has been raised to 40; what does that translate to in terms of character levels?

It means that any class can reach level 40, in unmodded ToB only some classes were able to get to that high level. For mages the cap was around level 31 or so, which would have meant no levelling up for Irenicus.