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#1 Schatten

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Posted 18 December 2004 - 01:06 PM

there is an interesting discussion on bw forums about the magic system. what is your favorite system? mana based with/without regenerative mana? something like d&d? same old fireball/iceblast spells? something complete different? runebased (for example you use a fire element rune + projectile rune and have a fire bolt but you can also use cold instead of fire). or you have spells that grow with you. so no firebolt->firearrow->fireball->meteorshower.
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#2 discharger12

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Posted 18 December 2004 - 04:38 PM

there is an interesting discussion on bw forums about the magic system. what is your favorite system? mana based with/without regenerative mana? something like d&d? same old fireball/iceblast spells? something complete different? runebased (for example you use a fire  element rune + projectile rune and have a fire bolt but you can also use cold instead of fire). or you have spells that grow with you. so no firebolt->firearrow->fireball->meteorshower.

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I like mana based. Most rules (okay, maybe a few) similar to d&d are good.

Edited by discharger12, 18 December 2004 - 04:38 PM.

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#3 Shed

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Posted 18 December 2004 - 05:36 PM

When you say mana, do you mean recharging, as in D2? I rather like the BG2 system of spells/rest... but then, I'm used to it :P

#4 Tom

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 01:23 AM

I think a mana system would be good, but it only regens on rest (sort of like a cross between the two systems mentioned here.) Also something I would definately like to see is some variation in spells. For example, rather then having 3 different variations of the same spells for the different elements (a la NWN) make them unique.
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#5 Archmage Silver

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 02:14 AM

Well, I like mana based casting as much as the traditional choose-sleep-cast system. Arcanum and Lionheart had mana based casting and it worked well with those games and BGs and IWDs use the sleep based casting which is as good imo. Final Fantasy VIII used the spell system where you had to steal spells from enemies and only then you could cast them. That just wasn't good. I wonder what DA will be using?

#6 Schatten

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 05:45 AM

"I wonder what DA will be using?"

afaik it will be mana. i think a official posted it there.

i would like mana with runemagic or spells that get better as you level up. those things are not often seen.
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#7 Blitz

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 06:28 AM

"I wonder what DA will be using?"

afaik it will be mana. i think a official posted it there.

i would like mana with runemagic or spells that get better as you  level up. those things are not often seen.

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BG2 spells do get better as you level up (most). Compare a level 1 magic missle to a level 30 magic missle.

#8 Schatten

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 07:33 AM

lvl 9 or so was max for mm. ;) yep and thats what i mean. have not so much spells but fewer and all of them are good for some situations. lots of spells means lots of redundant spells.
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#9 Shed

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 09:00 AM

I think a mana system for magic, with slow regeneration, would be best.

It really sucks for a mage to spend most of his life sleeping just so he can cast his one powerful spell. It also removes the problem of spell-selection, while keeping the limits on magic in combat :).

#10 igi

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 10:45 AM

There just has to be something more original than cast-rest-cast or mana based.
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#11 Shed

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 11:27 AM

What do you suggest :)?

The mana system avoids sleep/rest problems but has its own. Regeneration would have to be very slow, the max limit low. Mana potions should increase the regen rate, or the max mana, but not give mana itself. That sucks.

One interesting idea would be to allow mages to cast spells (to a limited degree) when mana is low, but it hurts the mage. So they sacrifice hp for mana :).

#12 Stone Wolf

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 11:57 AM

There just has to be something more original than cast-rest-cast or mana based.

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It's been a while since I played it, but Ars Magica had a different system. Basically, you made a roll for each spell cast, comparing your skill plus the roll with the difficulty of the spell. If you did well, the spell was cast and there was no drain. If you didn't make the roll, you took fatigue or even physical damage. You could die if you rolled poorly enough.

Come to think of it, Shadowrun isn't all that different.

#13 Tom

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 05:28 PM

Pehaps they could implement something whereby if you spend a long time casting the spell the drain is lower, or the spell is stronger (sort of like a charge time on the spell)
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#14 Sovran

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 06:28 PM

There just has to be something more original than cast-rest-cast or mana based.

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I tried out a freeware game called Aleshar: World of Ice a while back, and I really liked the magic system. You have five skills that measure your ability to channel the five elemental powers, and on top of them an overall power control skill. To cast a spell, you choose from one to five elemental runes, and a power level at which to cast this rune combination. Different combinations have different effects.

Naturally, the more elements and power, the harder the spell, and the more it drains your stamina to cast -- especially if your skills aren't up to par. I died of overexhaustion every ten minutes or so. Groovy. :)

Pehaps they could implement something whereby if you spend a long time casting the spell the drain is lower, or the spell is stronger (sort of like a charge time on the spell)


This is something I'd definitely like to see. Generally, it would be interesting to be able to customise the effects of magic on the fly, rather than relying on pre-made spells.

Edited by Sovran, 19 December 2004 - 06:29 PM.


#15 Stone Wolf

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 06:36 PM

Pehaps they could implement something whereby if you spend a long time casting the spell the drain is lower, or the spell is stronger (sort of like a charge time on the spell)

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That would depend on what type of game it is. A turn-based game would be fine for that, but a real-time game it might make casting spells in combat too awkward.

#16 Archmage Silver

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 08:02 AM

I guess that Bio team won't use anything more complicated than cast-sleep-cast or mana, because they don't want to confuse new players with too much complexity. Oh well.

#17 igi

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 10:42 AM

I am also tired of the old 'elemental' spell ideas - though, a 'control' element would make it more original.

I'm not exactly sure what I would prefer, but then.. I am not making a game which includes a magic system, so it's not terribly inportant that I have a better replacement. I am jsut tired of the same old concepts being re-used in every single game.
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#18 Tom

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 12:18 PM

I am also tired of the old 'elemental' spell ideas - though, a 'control' element would make it more original.

I'm not exactly sure what I would prefer, but then.. I am not making a game which includes a magic system, so it's not terribly inportant that I have a better replacement. I am jsut tired of the same old concepts being re-used in every single game.

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I know, lets all make a game where magic is restricted to use from wands, combat is extended as far as your characters ability to lob stones, dialog consists entirely of visual actions which you have no control over, and you roleplay a piece of fluff as it travels around a house!

But seriously, it would really be nice for a new, innovative and workable magic system but in general the concepts are re-used because they work, and people are familiar with them. Something I definately dont like in a game is the requirement for a 2-hour tutorial before I know how to work everything (I think a possible exception for this is Metroid Prime for GC - thats anothing story)
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#19 Feanor

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 01:26 AM

Some news about DA : there will be no familiars or animal companions and there WON't BE a difference between arcane and divine magic or a lot of divine intervention.

#20 Schatten

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 07:15 AM

But seriously, it would really be nice for a new, innovative and workable magic system but in general the concepts are re-used because they work, and people are familiar with them. Something I definately dont like in a game is the requirement for a 2-hour tutorial before I know how to work everything (I think a possible exception for this is Metroid Prime for GC - thats anothing story)

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now you begin with this lazy attitude, too? lazy players like you stop innovative ideas. all those people who like shit clone games.
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