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Romance in TOB


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#1 Feanor

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 01:44 AM

Romance with the main character or a NPC ?

#2 Kai of Candlekeep

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 02:09 AM

Romance with the main character or a NPC ?

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Yes, and yes. No specifics available as yet ;)
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#3 SConrad

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 06:16 AM

Let's just say...

ToB romance for the PC.

SoA + ToB romance with another NPC. Let the guesswork begin. ;)

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#4 Meira

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 06:20 AM

Hmmmm... Let's see...

*Puts her money on Nalia.*
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#5 SConrad

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 06:23 AM

Why do you think that, Meira?

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#6 Meira

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 06:40 AM

Firstly I assumed to mystery NPC would be female and a Bio-NPC.

Imoen - that girl has enough loving as it is.

Viconia - that would be rather bold - even arrogant - move from you.

Jaheira - Nah..

Mazzy - That would be rather unconventional, but apparently she a girl that's into more that strong an silent type. However, the thing with Valygar does not have enough substance to be a love triangle.

Aerie - she also has pretty much loving as it is.

Nalia - that would have elements from the classical lady and the tramp setting plus they're about that same age.
Ihmeellinen meri

Kummalliset kalat liukuvat syvyydessä,
tuntemattomat kukat loistavat rannalla;
olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
mutta ihana meri on vaarallista nähdä,
se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
mitä on tapahtunut sadussa, on tapahtuva minullekin.

- Edith Södergran


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#7 SConrad

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 07:08 AM

Firstly I assumed to mystery NPC would be female and a Bio-NPC.

Just out of curiousity, why do you assume this?

Imoen - that girl has enough loving as it is.

Imoen romance, Imoen relationship, Kelsey, Chloe. I see what you mean. ;)

Viconia - that would be rather bold  - even arrogant - move from you.

Interesting viewpoint, I think. Care to explain it further? :)

Jaheira - Nah..

Jaheira is often excluded as a "Nah" in cases such as this. I've never really understood why...

Mazzy - That would be rather unconventional, but apparently she a girl that's into more that strong an silent type. However, the thing with Valygar does not have enough substance to be a love triangle.

We actually had an interesting thing going on between Khadion and Mazzy in their banters, their views on life just played off each other so ironically. In the end, though, I decided not to persue this notion, since it still felt a bit strange. ;)

Aerie - she also has pretty much loving as it is.

She would, on the other hand, be the kind of girl Khadion would find attractive.

Nalia - that would have elements from the classical lady and the tramp setting plus they're about that same age.

Personality-wise, then? Would they still match, you think?

Edited by SConrad, 22 January 2005 - 07:11 AM.

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#8 Meira

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 08:42 AM

Firstly I assumed to mystery NPC would be female and a Bio-NPC.

Just out of curiousity, why do you assume this?


Well, if it's not a bio NPC... I'm lazy and didn't bother to think of mod NPCs. I need a hint I I'm to consider them. Unlessss... But I think they mentioned *he* was non-joinable...

As for the being female - I admit that he would probably make a cute couple with one of the bio-boys, but based on the info you have posted I got the impression that he was strait. I might be wrong of course. ;)

Viconia - that would be rather bold  - even arrogant - move from you.

Interesting viewpoint, I think. Care to explain it further? :)


As I drow Viconia would likely to hit for the top dog. Charname or if she would hag out with Linvall family I think she would go after the one with most influence & power. Meaning papa Linvall. Of all bio romances (I admit that I don't know of Jaheira) she's most interested in PC heritage and the power it brings.

Of course she also falls in love with Charname but that a different thing. She might flirt and tease Khadion, but a full blown romance the carries over SoA and ToB - I don't think so.

Jaheira - Nah..

Jaheira is often excluded as a "Nah" in cases such as this. I've never really understood why...


Jaheira is rather proud and I really don't see her easily getting into any game of hearts. Now, of course Bioware made her romance Charname, but he's *special* after all. And of course there is that kinky 'piano teacher' / 'robbing the cradle' thing going on. However, as I said I haven ever player Jaheira romance, so I might not be the best person to evaluate her as a romance candidate. She kind of flirts with HD, though...

Aerie - she also has pretty much loving as it is.

She would, on the other hand, be the kind of girl Khadion would find attractive.


But would he like her on the long run? I got a kind of feeling that young men that enjoy popularity among ladies are very attracted to that sweet innocent type (that they can easily play around), but lose their interest rather quickly. Of course we know that by ToB Aerie shows signs of being her own person, but will that bee soon enough?

Nalia - that would have elements from the classical lady and the tramp setting plus they're about that same age.

Personality-wise, then? Would they still match, you think?

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Tsk... :D I don presume that I know Khadion well enough to know how *well* he would hit off with Nalia. I was jut trying to guess what you guys will do. But I think she would make a better match in the long run than Aerie. I don't know Nalia terribly well either as she almost never is in my party (because Imoen is).

They come from ver different worlds, but still from same culture and race. So, they would be different enough to sparkle interest, but similar enough to not be too alien. Personality wise, though, I really don't know enough of either of them to say for sure.

Edited by Meira, 22 January 2005 - 08:47 AM.

Ihmeellinen meri

Kummalliset kalat liukuvat syvyydessä,
tuntemattomat kukat loistavat rannalla;
olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
mutta ihana meri on vaarallista nähdä,
se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
mitä on tapahtunut sadussa, on tapahtuva minullekin.

- Edith Södergran


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#9 SConrad

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 09:21 AM

Well, if it's not a bio NPC... I'm lazy and didn't bother to think of mod NPCs. I need a hint I I'm to consider them. Unlessss... But I think they mentioned *he* was non-joinable...

As for the being female - I admit that he would probably make a cute couple with one of the bio-boys, but based on the info you have posted I got the impression that he was strait. I might be wrong of course. ;)

Well, you're quite right that it's a female. ;)

As I drow Viconia would likely to hit for the top dog. Charname or if she would hag out with Linvall family I think she would go after the one with most influence & power. Meaning papa Linvall. Of all bio romances (I admit that I don't know of Jaheira) she's most interested in PC heritage and the power it brings.

Of course she also falls in love with Charname but that a different thing. She might flirt and tease Khadion, but a full blown romance the carries over SoA and ToB - I don't think so.

What if Khadion has the potential to have 'power'? As the Shadowmaster's stepson, he's bound to have both influence and power, no matter his age.

Jaheira is rather proud and I really don't see her easily getting into any game of hearts. Now, of course Bioware made her romance Charname, but he's *special* after all. And of course there is that kinky 'piano teacher' / 'robbing the cradle' thing going on. However, as I said I haven ever player Jaheira romance, so I might not be the best person to evaluate her as a romance candidate. She kind of flirts with HD, though...

I'd be the first to agree that Bioware perhaps made a mistake in letting the PC romance Jaheira so early after Khalid's death, but perhaps later on? And the 'piano teacher' would definently fit into this description. ;)

But would he like her on the long run? I got a kind of feeling that young men that enjoy popularity among ladies are very attracted to that sweet innocent type (that they can easily play around), but lose their interest rather quickly. Of course we know that by ToB Aerie shows signs of being her own person, but will that bee soon enough?

Wouldn't the innocence perhaps attach him to her? Wouldn't her fragile disposition perchance let him take her to his heart? She's in need of a knight in shining armour, and while Khadion might not be a knight, he's got shiny hair (ehh... or something. :P)!

Tsk... :D  I don presume that I know Khadion well enough to know how *well* he would hit off with Nalia. I was jut trying to guess what you guys will do. But I think she would make a better match in the long run than Aerie. I don't know Nalia terribly well either as she almost never is in my party (because Imoen is).

Still, if Aerie's personality in the long run would bore Khadion, why wouldn't Nalia do the same?

They come from ver different worlds, but still from same culture and race. So, they would be different enough to sparkle interest, but similar enough to not be too alien. Personality wise, though, I really don't know enough of either of them to say for sure.

This might just be very true. ;)

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#10 Meira

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 11:17 AM

What if Khadion has the potential to have 'power'? As the Shadowmaster's stepson, he's bound to have both influence and power, no matter his age.


But would Vicy fall in love with him (or vice versa)? As I said Charname is *special* and thus can have certain (epic) 'true love in odd place'-advantage over 'ordinary' NPC.

Assuming that with 'romance' you mean romantic love, not lust.

I'd be the first to agree that Bioware perhaps made a mistake in letting the PC romance Jaheira so early after Khalid's death, but perhaps later on? And the 'piano teacher' would definently fit into this description. ;)


I'd say it would still be an odd match but it's your mod of course. ;)

Wouldn't the innocence perhaps attach him to her? Wouldn't her fragile disposition perchance let him take her to his heart? She's in need of a knight in shining armour, and while Khadion might not be a knight, he's got shiny hair (ehh... or something. :P)!


Perhaps... I suppose that's it's possible that he'd take her as yet another conquer, but then notice later that he's actually quite attached to the little blue-eyed elf. Of course by that he could have messed it all up (by wooing someone else or something).

Getting Aeirie back would then take better pat of ToB...

Still, if Aerie's personality in the long run would bore Khadion, why wouldn't Nalia do the same?


Nalia is not shy to speak up for herself. To me - based on little experience I have of Nalia - she seems a lot more foot-on-the-ground (no pun intended) kind of girl, more sure of herself and cares a lot less what others think. I might be wrong here - I haven studied Nalia's dialogues very closely.

I think Aerie's most off-putting personality trait is that she needs a constant (positive) feedback from others on what they think of her. That isn't very sexy.

Edited by Meira, 22 January 2005 - 11:18 AM.

Ihmeellinen meri

Kummalliset kalat liukuvat syvyydessä,
tuntemattomat kukat loistavat rannalla;
olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
mutta ihana meri on vaarallista nähdä,
se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
mitä on tapahtunut sadussa, on tapahtuva minullekin.

- Edith Södergran


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#11 -Sheol-

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 12:07 PM

What if Khadion has the potential to have 'power'? As the Shadowmaster's stepson, he's bound to have both influence and power, no matter his age.

I think that Meira actually has a very good point. <CHARNAME> is the child of a god, a godling, and has the potential to become a very real power in the Realms. Additionally, he can offer permanent protection against Lolth should he embrace divinity. Unlike the other males in the party, <CHARNAME> is the only one that Viconia could acknowledge as her superior. Her cultural background and mindset is very stratified. While she might flirt with other males, she would never regard them as equals, an issue that comes up in her 'flirts' with other NPC males. Equality in relationships is something foreign to drow.

I'd be the first to agree that Bioware perhaps made a mistake in letting the PC romance Jaheira so early after Khalid's death, but perhaps later on? And the 'piano teacher' would definently fit into this description. ;)

Bioware didn't establish a very strong relationship between the two Harper agents and <CHARNAME>, so I'm not sure if calling it a teacher/student relationship is correct. If anything, I get the impression that they were more like minders, tasked with watching the Bhaalspawn. As for the romance, I believe that BioWare tweaked it to occur more rapidly due to customer complaints/demand. Originally, it took a very long time for the romance to progress and the scripts were buggy.

One advantage of doing an Aerie romance is that she isn't exactly that popular with modders. :P As such, the only romances that you have to take into account are the BioWare ones with <CHARNAME> and Haer Dalis.

Regarding Nalia, there is the issue with the upcoming Nalia Romance (Weidu) mod and the existing Nalia Romance mod (non-Weidu).

#12 Meira

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 12:46 PM

Aklon will romance Aerie, so she does not exactly have the unpopular girl advantage over Nalia (who so far will have Charname's weidued love). :P

Non-weidu mods are compatibility hazard anyway....
Ihmeellinen meri

Kummalliset kalat liukuvat syvyydessä,
tuntemattomat kukat loistavat rannalla;
olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
mutta ihana meri on vaarallista nähdä,
se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
mitä on tapahtunut sadussa, on tapahtuva minullekin.

- Edith Södergran


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#13 Feanor

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 12:16 AM

Aerie - she also has pretty much loving as it is.

She would, on the other hand, be the kind of girl Khadion would find attractive.


Khadion might, but would Aerie be happy with such a romance ? Regarding the feelings, Khadion seems to be a little bit superficial, and Aerie, after she manages to recover herself for the loss of her wings, wants a profound relationship. Which Khadion does not seem able to ensure. Think what happened with the romance between Aerie and Haer'Dalis.

#14 Meira

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 01:46 AM

However, unlike HD, Khadion's developers seem to suggest that he is capable of "changing". In a way, being young human (or so we are told), Khadion is just as naive as Aerie in what comes to relationships based on trust and real commitment between two equal partners.
Ihmeellinen meri

Kummalliset kalat liukuvat syvyydessä,
tuntemattomat kukat loistavat rannalla;
olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
mutta ihana meri on vaarallista nähdä,
se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
mitä on tapahtunut sadussa, on tapahtuva minullekin.

- Edith Södergran


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#15 Shed

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 03:19 AM

However, unlike HD, Khadion's developers seem to suggest that he is capable of "changing". In a way, being young human (or so we are told), Khadion is just as naive as Aerie in what comes to relationships based on trust and real commitment between two equal partners.

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Well, that's certainly true ;).

#16 SConrad

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 06:25 AM

But would Vicy fall in love with him (or vice versa)?  As I said Charname is *special* and thus can have certain (epic) 'true love in odd place'-advantage over 'ordinary' NPC.

Assuming that with 'romance' you mean romantic love, not lust.

Well, yes. Maybe Viconia isn't very suitable for romance. :P

Still love has a way of doing the strangest things to people. It has a way of connecting two seemingly different persons.

I'd say it would still be an odd match but it's your mod of course. ;)

It might be my mod, but that doesn't mean I won't listen to suggestions. ;)

Perhaps... I suppose that's it's possible that he'd take her as yet another conquer, but  then notice later that he's actually quite attached to the little blue-eyed elf. Of course by that he could have messed it all up (by wooing someone else or something).

Getting Aeirie back would then take better pat of ToB... 

Would he really manage to take her as a conquer? She might be insecure, but she still won't go to bed with CHARNAME until pretty late in the game (which she of course regrets). I'm not sure Khadion would succed in accomplishing that.

Nalia is not shy to speak up for herself. To me - based on little experience I have of Nalia - she seems a lot more foot-on-the-ground (no pun intended) kind of girl, more sure of herself and cares a lot less what others think.  I might be wrong here - I haven studied Nalia's dialogues very closely.

I think Aerie's most off-putting personality trait is that she needs a constant (positive) feedback from others on what they think of her. That isn't very sexy.

It's true that Nalia perhaps isn't afraid to speak up for herself, but I wonder if that would be enough for Khadion not to lose interest in her. She's not stunningly beautiful and doesn't have a very exciting character (as opposed to Viconia, for example).

Aerie's trait of needing positive feedback is annoying, yes. But Khadion is still quite used to whispering sweet nothing into girl's ears.

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#17 SConrad

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 06:30 AM

Bioware didn't establish a very strong relationship between the two Harper agents and <CHARNAME>, so I'm not sure if calling it a teacher/student relationship is correct.

I was referring to a possible Jaheira-Khadion romance, rather than CHARNAME-Jaheira.

    One advantage of doing an Aerie romance is that she isn't exactly that popular with modders.  :P  As such, the only romances that you have to take into account are the BioWare ones with <CHARNAME> and Haer Dalis.

    Regarding Nalia, there is the issue with the upcoming Nalia Romance (Weidu) mod and the existing Nalia Romance mod (non-Weidu).

This was actually taken into consideration when we originally planned this. It's really no fun to provide *yet* another romance to a character, when several other mods already have done it.

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#18 SConrad

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 06:38 AM

Non-weidu mods are compatibility hazard anyway....

Definitely. ;)

    Khadion might, but would Aerie be happy with such a romance ? Regarding the feelings, Khadion seems to be a little bit superficial, and Aerie, after she manages to recover herself for the loss of her wings, wants a profound relationship. Which Khadion does not seem able to ensure. Think what happened with the romance between Aerie and Haer'Dalis.

On the other hand, Khadion will, one way or another, be forced to 'grow up'. Who says that a female cannot be the reason for that?

However, unlike HD, Khadion's developers seem to suggest that he is capable of "changing". In a way, being young human (or so we are told), Khadion is just as naive as Aerie in what comes to relationships based on trust and real commitment between two equal partners.

Yes, exactly. Not only is Khadion capable of changing, he sorta has to. His spoiled brat-personality doesn't really fit with the life as an adventurer, so something needs to be done. There are, of course, other reasons and factors as well... ;)

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#19 Meira

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 07:18 AM

Would he really manage to take her as a conquer? She might be insecure, but she still won't go to bed with CHARNAME until pretty late in the game (which she of course regrets). I'm not sure Khadion would succed in accomplishing that.

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But in vanilla BG Charname has no way of trying to nail her any sooner since all action is NPC driven. :P

Edited by Meira, 23 January 2005 - 07:18 AM.

Ihmeellinen meri

Kummalliset kalat liukuvat syvyydessä,
tuntemattomat kukat loistavat rannalla;
olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
mutta ihana meri on vaarallista nähdä,
se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
mitä on tapahtunut sadussa, on tapahtuva minullekin.

- Edith Södergran


Amber - The BG2 NPC Mod Project Now released!
Amber's discussion forum at Gibberlings 3

#20 Meira

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 07:20 AM

Hmmm... I'm starting to think my money would be safer with Aerie... Or then I'm being lead on to ensure that house always wins. :glare:
Ihmeellinen meri

Kummalliset kalat liukuvat syvyydessä,
tuntemattomat kukat loistavat rannalla;
olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
mutta ihana meri on vaarallista nähdä,
se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
mitä on tapahtunut sadussa, on tapahtuva minullekin.

- Edith Södergran


Amber - The BG2 NPC Mod Project Now released!
Amber's discussion forum at Gibberlings 3