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Improving Arilistan?


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#1 flem

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 03:18 PM

OK, I've been playing a duo game with Tashia and just finished her SoA plot. Is the big overhaul going to spruce up Arilistan at all? Because while her quest here was fun, I think there's a lot of unrealized potential here.

First: atmosphere. He's a Bhaalspawn -- a fact that significantly affects the beginning of your romance. Shouldn't there be some intra-godchild trash talk about this, maybe some hints/preview of the ToB goings on? Presumably Tashia's told him all about you after being robotized; he should have -something- to say to you anyway. Also, isn't he a vampire or necromancer or something? It would be great if his henchmen thematically connected to these things, which they don't seem to now.

Second: the battle. Obviously the baddies just drop too much loot. (Arilistan himself should have one nice toy, but minor stuff only for others.) But my 17C/16M (I think -- I ended up levelling up one of them during the battle) PC had an exciting but barely-threatening solo run through the cave. Didn't even delve into the emergency spell case or wands... OK, there's a thread talking about how hard this fight was for some, so maybe it shouldn't be much tougher. But it could anyway be more interesting (or maybe I'm asking for an optional 'Improved Arilistan' component :lol: )...

One thing would be to make slave-Tashia as tough as the real one. The CRE file has her as a level 16 mage (not sorc!), which is really odd... And weak. Is it possible to use the real Tashia's level and spell list? This would allow her difficulty to scale to party power -- I doubt anyone would nerf her spell choices just to simplify this battle. I don't know squat about scripting, but I can't imagine it's impossible to go down a checklist when choosing offensive spells (Dragon's Breath->Comet->ADHW->Chain Lightning->the useless stuff that blew up Vex and the guards) or summonses (a Planetar would be... interesting), and of course to Time Stop[+Improved Alacrity] if she has it. This could of course make her tougher than Irenicus, but hey, if -she's- that level, you're going to slaughter Irenicus anyway.

Vex too isn't as strong or interesting as he could be. He's a level 16 sorc which is fine, but his level 4, 5, 6, and 8 spells don't have a single attacking option, while the level 2-3 attacks are pretty weak (ghoul touch? fireball instead of skull trap?). FoD is nice but he should prepare it with Greater Malision (from a scroll?). And if he's not going to assault you with area attack spells, he should at least haste the fighters and summon up some skeleton warriors/Mordenkainen's swords before going to his doom.

OK, maybe that's a bit OTT. The elite guards seem OK, though throwing axes would make them more formidable. They don't seem to use their potions (nor does Arilistan, for that matter). Not sure about the Rakshasan mages, which skeleton warriors made quick work of offscreen while I was tangling with Arilistan. Both are a bit colorless -- again, I'd hoped for some unconventional attacks, like a bunch of level-draining undead or whatnot. (This would be a bit too much like Bodhi, I realize, but there's surely some middle path.)

Arilistan himself could use a boost too. Part of this is because of the two-phase nature of the battle, which (because you can leave the cave at will) can expand out even further into numerous one/two-opponent battles that are pretty easy. Pure fighter opponents need, I think, either magic backup or strong resistances to challenge post-underdark parties, and even if you haven't killed all his henchmen already it's easy to isolate Arilistan by pulling him into the other room. (His AI kept breaking down at this point, making him even easier than he should be -- is this his specials failing to trigger somehow, or some other bug?)

One way around this would be to keep him and Tashia together in the back, to fight together after the henchmen have flopped. With a high-level Tashia this could be amazingly tough (esp. if you give Arilistan a Bhaalpower, like, say, "Focus" :devil: ), but even regular Tashia would be a fun combo with a fire-immune Arilistan (so he's not crispified by her sunfires). Alternately, you could have everyone in the cave go hostile only when you go to the back to talk to Arilistan... That might make it too difficult though.

Another idea is to make him a Kensai/Mage... :P Actually, that might fit his story. Think about it.

As you see, her lovechats had me picturing something more like a mini-ToB bossfight (with something new -- a vampire-associated Bhaalspawn and his minions, who might become one of the five except you kill him here first). What I've suggested may be more like the Ascension version of that, but I think ToB sort of atmospherics -- Bhaalplot allusions, trash talking, novel henchmen, even perhaps ToB music -- would add a lot even if the battle elements weren't (much) toughened. Does this strike a chord with anyone?

(While I'm complaining, I'd also like it if there were some journal entries for the "Rescue Tashia" quest...)

#2 Lord Ernie

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 03:36 PM

I haven't played Tashia for a very long time (nor BG2 for that matter) but I can tell you a few things:

First off, there's been a long thread about the loot. This is too much, far too much and will be tweaked, I'm sure.

Second, as far as I remember, the fight wasn't exactly too easy. But I seem to recall you're not supposed to be a level 17C/level 16M at the time. In BG2, when doing every single quest and killing every single worthwile opponent, you got to level 17-18 before reaching Suldanesselar, a bit higher for a pure cleric or bard/thief, but certainly not level 17/18 C/M. Of course, you played a 2-member party, so you're certain to be a bit higher of level. I (and I suspect most players) always go with a party with 6, so I wasn't that high-level at the time; the battle could be set to scale perhaps, but this would require, as I understand, different battle AI's.

While the fight could perhaps do with a bit of TOB epic battle music, I don't think there's need for any HLA.

Edited by Lord Ernie, 25 January 2005 - 03:39 PM.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move - Douglas Adams

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Give a man a fire, and he's warm for a day. But set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett


#3 Bri

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 07:56 AM

Just for the record, much of the Monty Haul aspect of the module was to make the various opponents tougher rather than award the PC with kewl loot. I broached this subject a while back with the original creator of the module, and he didn't mind if we toned down the rewards and just make the opponents tougher in other ways.

And if I can find an appropriate piece of music Lord Ernie...well, I wouldn't mind doing that. I know that I definitely have other pieces I listen to other than the recycled BG I and II tunes.

Overhauling Arilistan was also an idea of mine, but I wanted to actually get more NPC banters done, and add a few more other dialogue before working on him (as well as expanding flirts, and riddles for ToB)

And yes, journal entries was something else as well we would like to include.

"I read about the evils of drinking, so I gave it up." "You gave up drinking?" "No, I gave up reading..."


#4 Gramin

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 02:49 AM

Overhauling Arilistan was also an idea of mine, but I wanted to actually get more NPC banters done, and add a few more other dialogue before working on him (as well as expanding flirts, and riddles for ToB)


Wheeeeennn wiillll Tashia be updateeed...? I just can't wait for her... Wow... she's so lovely :wub: Ohhh... :^^:

#5 Bri

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 08:30 AM

I've been having a bad spate recently...(there are those who know why). Let me jsut assure everyone it isn't anything board related...but real life.

Anyways, her update will happen after I finish with Delainy...which has been on the back burner for a bit (real life once again).

Also, I do want to make more NPC banters for Tashia than the ones posted (at least give her 2 per NPC per segment (SoA & ToB)). This will mean some new material which won't be seen.

As for new lovetalks, those are pretty much up above, though they will be seriously edited too, to fit in the rest of the module.

Riddles have been found which will be put in use in ToB...and hopefully an expansion of flirts.

"I read about the evils of drinking, so I gave it up." "You gave up drinking?" "No, I gave up reading..."


#6 Gramin

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 09:55 AM

I've been having a bad spate recently...(there are those who know why).  Let me jsut assure everyone it isn't anything board related...but real life.

Ouch... That happens sometimes. Egh...

Anyways, her update will happen after I finish with Delainy...which has been on the back burner for a bit (real life once again).

Mhm... Wouldn't you mind if I asked how advanced is Delainy? I was also looking forward to establishing a relationship with her but the mod was not relased yet (as far as I know)

Also, I do want to make more NPC banters for Tashia than the ones posted

Even more? Wow :-) Well - you shouldn't have written it, cause it makes me even more impatient ;-)

Mhmm... I've read some of those samples (not all cause there's so much of it :-)) and I must say I love them!
And the point of the question was not *how* will Tashia be updated, but *when* - just an estimate... this/next year? ;-)
Waiting is so hard a task... ;-)

#7 Lord Ernie

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 10:50 AM

Actually, waiting is quite easy: you don't have to do anything at all. I choose waiting over studying database systems anytime (as I'm doing that right now).

As for Delainy, the coder seems to be on a leave these days, but the writing is mostly done. You can check out the forums here.

Edited by Lord Ernie, 08 February 2005 - 10:50 AM.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move - Douglas Adams

I like persons better than principles, and I like persons with no principles better than anything else in the world - Oscar Wilde

Give a man a fire, and he's warm for a day. But set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett


#8 Gramin

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 11:52 AM

Actually, waiting is quite easy: you don't have to do anything at all. I choose waiting over studying database systems anytime (as I'm doing that right now)

Uhm... It's obvious everyone would prefer doing nothing to working/studying :-P And I'm no exception here. But even that doesn't change my impatience :-)

As for Delainy, the coder seems to be on a leave these days, but the writing is mostly done. You can check out the forums

I checked the forums previously but I couldn't find any info about the estimated time of releasing the mod. Pity... ;-)

#9 Bri

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 02:18 PM

I checked the forums previously but I couldn't find any info about the estimated time of releasing the mod. Pity... ;-)

The writing I had in mind to finish really won't take more than a month once I can get to it. Part of it is laziness, part of it is real life.

Coding would take longer, however...and then after Del is in the shape we want her, we want to make her voiced...and as Lord Ernie can tell, there is a lot of text.

"I read about the evils of drinking, so I gave it up." "You gave up drinking?" "No, I gave up reading..."


#10 Gramin

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 02:56 AM

Part of it is laziness, part of it is real life.

I took a look at the developer diary... And well, I expect it doesn't mean much because we don't even know each other, but... uhm... I hope you can take over it and go on...
Egh... Nevermind...

#11 Arian

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Posted 14 February 2005 - 12:07 AM

The original mod took me 1 month to write, but I wasn't doing anything else at the time. Keep in mind that Tashia is nearly 3 years old... :)

"The very identity of every reasoning being is defined by the language, the communication between that being and others around it." -- Drizzt Do'Urden (R.A. Salvatore, "Exile")


#12 Gramin

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 12:24 PM

Keep in mind that Tashia is nearly 3 years old... :)

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I don't mind the age. She's an elf ;-)
Ah... well... it wasn't a good joke, was it? :-D