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Khadion's moral values


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#1 Feanor

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Posted 04 February 2005 - 09:28 AM

You granted some info about Khadion's personality. But what you posted is only about his social behaviour.
So, could you post some info about his beliefs and morality ? If he is a shadow thieves, is he concerned only about his interest ? Is he a business-man type like Renal, for instance ? Would he object if the party neglect his interest for a greater good (think of the quest "releasing the woman without a reward", for instance) ? Is he devoted to a god ?

Edited by Feanor, 04 February 2005 - 11:05 PM.


#2 Feanor

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 03:06 AM

Seb ? :huh:

#3 SConrad

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 08:05 AM

Oh, yeah, sorry. I planned on replying a long time ago, but something err... got in between. ;)

So, could you post some info about his beliefs and morality ?

Khadion's views on morality is very influenced by the environment he lives in. He is a thief, he's raised by thieves and practically all his friends are thieves. He doesn't look upon ethics and morale as a paladin does, for example. Stealing, robbing, threathening and even killing is just a part of the job he does, it's a part of what he is. He doesn't take pleasure in killing anyone, but his morals doesn't prevent him from doing it. He wouldn't kill an innocent, but he wouldn't hesitate in doing something for the Shadow Thieves.

If he is a shadow thieves, is he concerned only about his interest ?

Khadion has a very limited understanding about things beyond Athkatla and the Shadow Thieves, the things that concern him, and he is very self-centered. During his upbringing, much of the things surrounding him is pretty much about him - being the Shadowmaster's son, being the ladies' man, etc. As the game progresses, however he will realise that there are things larger than what he knows, and that the world doesn't circle around him.

Is he a business-man type like Renal, for instance ?

Renal and Khadion are very much different. Khadion is too young and too self-centered to be the business-man such as Renal. He doesn't think of the consequences of his own actions, he doesn't put other people's interest before his own, and so forth. He's not that type of guy.

Would he object if the party neglect his interest for a greater good (think of the quest "releasing the woman without a reward", for instance) ?

This is very much depended on where in the character development he is at the time. But yes, if he doesn't agree with the party's actions, he will say so.

Is he devoted to a god ?

No, he isn't.

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#4 Meira

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 09:56 AM

So, could you post some info about his beliefs and morality ?

Khadion's views on morality is very influenced by the environment he lives in. He is a thief, he's raised by thieves and practically all his friends are thieves. He doesn't look upon ethics and morale as a paladin does, for example. Stealing, robbing, threathening and even killing is just a part of the job he does, it's a part of what he is. He doesn't take pleasure in killing anyone, but his morals doesn't prevent him from doing it. He wouldn't kill an innocent, but he wouldn't hesitate in doing something for the Shadow Thieves.


Game mechanics aside - how would he determine who's innocent?

Is he devoted to a god ?

No, he isn't.

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Is the there a specific reason for this?
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olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
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se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
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#5 Feanor

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 10:18 AM

Is he devoted to a god ?

No, he isn't.

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From the character's point of view, that's not a good idea, because if you don't have a god, you will have some troubles in the afterlife (it was an old topic in the AD&D forum, don't remember exactly what were those problems, but it was not good). So he would probably pick one.
Another reason for Khadion to choose a god would be to avoid being squashed by other gods, if he steps on her tail. Roughly speaking, gods can kill any mortal by Divine Will, but they don't do it because the other gods would interfere to protect their followers. But, if you don't have a god to protect you, your life would become more... risky. ;)

#6 Meira

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 10:25 AM

Hmmm.. But when you're young, you feel kind of immortal, right? So afterlife is not likely to be high on his list to-ponder-about.
Ihmeellinen meri

Kummalliset kalat liukuvat syvyydessä,
tuntemattomat kukat loistavat rannalla;
olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
mutta ihana meri on vaarallista nähdä,
se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
mitä on tapahtunut sadussa, on tapahtuva minullekin.

- Edith Södergran


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Amber's discussion forum at Gibberlings 3

#7 SConrad

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 11:41 AM

Game mechanics aside - how would he determine who's innocent?

Is there a reason for the creature to be killed? Khadion won't kill anyone without a reason, but have no problems doing so if there is one.

From the character's point of view, that's not a good idea, because if you don't have a god, you will have some troubles in the afterlife (it was an old topic in the AD&D forum, don't remember exactly what were those problems, but it was not good). So he would probably pick one.
Another reason for Khadion to choose a god would be to avoid being squashed by other gods, if he steps on her tail. Roughly speaking, gods can kill any mortal by Divine Will, but they don't do it because the other gods would interfere to protect their followers. But, if you don't have a god to protect you, your life would become more... risky.  ;)

This is very true, but not something Khadion is very much bothered by. The gods simply doesn't interest him enough. But maybe in time, he will?

Hmmm.. But when you're young, you feel kind of immortal, right? So afterlife is not likely to be high on his list to-ponder-about.

Exactly. :)

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#8 Azkyroth

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 07:09 PM




Is he devoted to a god ?

No, he isn't.

View Post


From the character's point of view, that's not a good idea, because if you don't have a god, you will have some troubles in the afterlife (it was an old topic in the AD&D forum, don't remember exactly what were those problems, but it was not good). So he would probably pick one.
Another reason for Khadion to choose a god would be to avoid being squashed by other gods, if he steps on her tail. Roughly speaking, gods can kill any mortal by Divine Will, but they don't do it because the other gods would interfere to protect their followers. But, if you don't have a god to protect you, your life would become more... risky. ;)


It depends a bit on what one means by "devoted to," I think. Choosing a patron deity based on personal resonance with their ideology doesn't necessarily mean dedicating a whole lot of one's time and effort to explicitly serving that deity...and from the character description I can rather see Khadion having a shallow on-and-off fling with a faith as readily as with a woman...
"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard

#9 Dharker

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 01:15 PM

It's true-- those who don't worship a God in FR (however religiously they do so - er, no pun intended) are pretty much doomed when they die. By canon, those who have no patron deity stand a strong chance, when they die, of ending up permanently dead.

However, since Khadion will (assumedly) be in your party when he dies, he can be raised because of this:
When a faithless dies, there is a 1D10 day period that a Faithless may be raised before Kelemvor takes the soul permanently.

That said, this IS BG2, it's not strictly canon. Didn't CHARNAME & Imoen lose their souls and carry on normally? Imoen doesn't permanently die if she loses all her HP when she doesn't have a soul, despite technically having to!

D

Edited by Dharker, 02 September 2008 - 01:15 PM.


#10 the bigg

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 01:21 PM

You realise you're posting in a three years old thread about a mod that will never be released?
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#11 Kaeloree

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 01:47 PM

It will be, but... just not quite yet. ;)

Khadion does have a god he worships; as the bigg has said, this thread is very old--it's also outdated in terms of content. Thanks for the suggestion, though!

#12 the bigg

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 02:49 PM

It will be, but... just not quite yet. ;)

Excuse me while I still don't believe you.

After four years, nothing would make me believe in this, apart from the mods' release.
Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

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#13 SConrad

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 06:18 PM

Tsk, tsk. bigg, ever the optimist. :)

As for Khadion, he's got a deity now, so I wouldn't worry about him ending up in the wall. ;)

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#14 the bigg

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 02:39 AM

Tsk, tsk. bigg, ever the optimist. :)

Well, if I state my skepticism at Baronius's projects, I'd better do the same at you, or I'd end up being an hypocrite :)

(of course, given the current state of various people at BWL, perhaps being an hypocrite is actually a plus)

Edited by the bigg, 03 September 2008 - 02:39 AM.

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
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Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.

#15 Dharker

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 06:36 PM

You realise you're posting in a three years old thread about a mod that will never be released?


Yes, I know that it is three years old. But have some faith, eh?

D

Edited by Dharker, 05 September 2008 - 06:37 PM.




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