46 replies to this topic

[AnnabelleRose]

Why is this horrible thread still going?

[Isilven]

Why is this horrible thread still going?

I know you dislike discussions of this type, MTS, but unfortunately, whether Imoen was sexually violated by Irenicus or not is going to be pivotal in discussions between her and her sibling... or even if the mod include conversations between Immy and Irenicus, via TLR/Redemption.
I dislike rape as much as the next person, but I see nothing wrong with this thread, or even how you could consider it "horrible". There is no graphic detail, there is not casual tossing-about of the term, nor is it being spoken about lightly. Nobody here is saying "LOL IMOEN WUZ RAPED [various crude comments here]", and nobody is saying that rape is normal or a good thing (Oh, MTS, how I wish you were around at Imoen.org when we had the guy who pretended he was a drow there )

The only thing I find offensive in the least is the fact that Black Isle even GAVE you the impression that he raped her. Come ON. Rape is a very serious, horrid thing, and you don't just get all ambiguous with it, you don't play with those kind of accusations. Yeah, Jon Irenicus is a bastard of the nth degree, but him actually violating Imoen or the dryads that way takes him to a whole 'nother level of bastard. They never give you a solid answer, either. They give a whole mess of allusions to it, but never give you a definate one way or the other. That's what pissed me off, they just kind of played with the concept of rape as if it was just going to be another atrocity on the list.

Sorry for that bit of a rant there... didn't mean to go on like that. I've got a very personal issue with rape, along with having been a peer relationship abuse counselor. The worst thing you could ever hear in your life is a girl say to you "I didn't want to do it, but I guess I was asking for it. I'm not mad at him, the teacher/my doctor/my mom/dad sent me here to see you."

[Delight]

Why is this horrible thread still going?

Why horrible? It doesn't come anywhere near the Imoen's sexuality thread.

Nobody here is saying "LOL IMOEN WUZ RAPED [various crude comments here]"

Do you really thing Deskath would say such thing?

(Oh, MTS, how I wish you were around at Imoen.org when we had the guy who pretended he was a drow there sad.gif )

Ah, Angrod... - he was an excellent comedian - I miss him .

The only thing I find offensive in the least is the fact that Black Isle even GAVE you the impression that he raped her. Come ON. Rape is a very serious, horrid thing, and you don't just get all ambiguous with it, you don't play with those kind of accusations. Yeah, Jon Irenicus is a bastard of the nth degree, but him actually violating Imoen or the dryads that way takes him to a whole 'nother level of bastard. They never give you a solid answer, either. They give a whole mess of allusions to it, but never give you a definate one way or the other. That's what pissed me off, they just kind of played with the concept of rape as if it was just going to be another atrocity on the list.

Are you serious?
Were you ever tortured?
Were you ever locked in a dungeon, cut, electroducted, burned and had inhumane medical experiments conducted upon you?
Did you witness inhuman medical experiments conducted on innocent people?
Did you see tormented people without bodies, half dead, insane, locked in jars, forever, because their master forgot about them?
Were you ever forced to watch someone dissect the body of your friend?
Were you ever forced to watch people die - not only watch - to feel their deaths?

blink.gif Sorry for that bit of a rant there... didn't mean to go on like that. I've got a very personal issue with rape, along with having been a peer relationship abuse counselor. The worst thing you could ever hear in your life is a girl say to you "I didn't want to do it, but I guess I was asking for it. I'm not mad at him, the teacher/my doctor/my mom/dad sent me here to see you." crying.gif

Now, imagine a girl that was locked in a dungeon, cut, electroducted, burned and had inhumane medical experiments conducted upon, was forced to watch someone dissect the body of her friend, forced to watch people die - not only watch - to feel their deaths, say the same.

Do you know what I find distasteful in this thread?
The fact that people are unable to see past their own small world and can't even understand the meaning of what Irenicus have done to <CHARNAME> and Imoen - they have to create a replacement topic that they can understand, because they can't understand what horrors they went through.
I guess it's Bioware's failure to represent what pain and horror means...

Edited by Delight, 05 September 2007 - 08:58 AM.

[Isilven]

I don't believe I lessened the tortures they went through anywhere in my post. Nor was I trying to start a debate. I was trying to console Major Tom, not get you started on me again, Delight.
And as far as the torture part goes: actually, yes, I have worked with young ladies who were kidnapped and essentially tortured. It doesn't make it better.
Honestly, I don't know where you're coming from, Delight, as most of what you mentioned was quite non-sequitur to the discussion we're having. We're not discussing the tortures Imoen/CHARNAME went through, we're discussing the possibility of her being raped, and my point was that the company had the balls to describe all the horrid things that were done to them, but when it came to rape, they danced around the subject while implying it. Either flat-out say it, say it's a horrible thing that should never be done, and move on to the character's emotional/physical healing, or DON'T INCLUDE IT OR ALLUDE TO IT.

[berelinde]

@ Isilven & Delight: is this a private conversation, or can anybody join? Please don't answer that.

Since the mod isn't currently active, continued speculation here isn't going to change anything.

[Delight]

We're not discussing the tortures Imoen/CHARNAME went through, we're discussing the possibility of her being raped, and my point was that the company had the balls to describe all the horrid things that were done to them, but when it came to rape, they danced around the subject while implying it.

Actually, most of the tortures were implied too - they didn't have balls to actually describe them in detail or go in depths into effects of torture. Also, did they really imply rape? I never thought that there could be any rape until I read this thread.

Either flat-out say it, say it's a horrible thing that should never be done, and move on to the character's emotional/physical healing, or DON'T INCLUDE IT OR ALLUDE TO IT.

Speaking of which...
Where's the emotional/physical healing after the tortures? The game goes straight from tortures to adventure.
No real nightmares, no anxiety, no anger attacks, no talking about in with friends (or refusing to talki about it.), nothing, absolutely nothing.
Just an emo-dark theme for RTS-advanture game.

[berelinde]

This conversation is going off topic. It might have once been relevant to the Imoen Relationship mod, but Quitch has not participated in quite some time. With that in mind, I'm locking the topic.

If you guys want to continue to debate the issue, I suggest doing so in an appropriate forum.