32 replies to this topic

[T.G.Maestro]

And I think that games aren't "face the challenge" - things T.G, 'cmon they're just fun things to spend time with

But when that challenge would prevent you enjoying the game, I dont see why not remove it. As has been said, games are for enjoyment.

You see? Here lies the main difference. I cannot enjoy games that do not forces me to stretch my limits. The prime reason I'm modding BG2 at the first place is to make it more challanging (though not in the Weimeric way, of course). If I help my friends complete games like these, I never "let" them to take easier paths, and at the end, most of them are happy because they actually managed to do something instead of "cheating it".
Thats my philosophy for RL too.

Some people take pleasure in a challenge, others enjoy them for other reasons - so why not, for those people, make the game easy? Its why most games have dificulty settings.

This is true of course.

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 02 June 2005 - 12:23 AM.

[PolarBear]

You see? Here lies the main difference. I cannot enjoy games that do not forces me to stretch my limits.

Hmm. That's not good since most of today's games a way too easy IMO. Real chellange is out of fashion.

[PolarBear]

You are right, but my guess is that minigames meant to bring some colour to the game, to give you a break after several hours of dialogue reading (and sometimes translating in my case), not to test your abilities (c'mon they are easy). Actually I found space battles fun at first, but they became boring soon after that. They should have been made optional (like pazaak) I agree with that.

[Ghreyfain]

At least Kotor 2 learned from this mistake. I chuckled to myself when I was given the option of either going to the turrets myself or sending one of the NPCs.

[PolarBear]

As for games having to be challenging in order to be fun... heh, there is nothing more relaxing than reading a good book. I like my games to be the same way. Go through the story, have characters I like and that make sense, not uber-powerful 'whoever gives more pluses' types, and still have fun, not re-fight the same battle five times over, waste three hours of my precious time on it and end up with a headache and advance but an inch in the story.

Hmm. I partially disagree here. A well written story is fun to read or play. But there is a different way you can enjoy your game. As TG said, to test your abilities, and watch your skills improve with time and practice (typical for FPS games). Or to solve a puzzle in a game. To win a sick weimeric battle in Tactics or something like that (well this a sort of a puzzle too). So victory tastes good, but a hard earned victory is even sweeter. These are only my personal opinions tho

[T.G.Maestro]

Everyone has their personal playing style, that is all.

This would be a good summary to this discussion.

As for games having to be challenging in order to be fun... heh, there is nothing more relaxing than reading a good book. I like my games to be the same way. Go through the story, have characters I like and that make sense, not uber-powerful 'whoever gives more pluses' types, and still have fun, not re-fight the same battle five times over, waste three hours of my precious time on it and end up with a headache and advance but an inch in the story.

As you say it, like reading a book. And just as I hate when the climax of the book's story is flat and without some interesting twist or thrilling moment, I hate when these things lack from games. A slightly off-topic example is when I met a Pit Fiend in BG2 the first time I played: I thought: "Oh my, oh my, now we will receive some serious beating, this is one of the most powerful creatures of Hell!!!"
You can guess the expressions on my face when 3 of my mid-level party members defeated it in 4-5 seconds...
To follow your analogy, this is a point where I put down a book and mark it as "less worthy of my precious time"...

[T.G.Maestro]

That makes sense to me.
And seeing things from this PoV, I can even appreciate your way of thinking Ashara about the gameplay (err, I just cannot get used to this name... ).

[Briannandoah]

As for games having to be challenging in order to be fun... heh, there is nothing more relaxing than reading a good book. I like my games to be the same way. Go through the story, have characters I like and that make sense, not uber-powerful 'whoever gives more pluses' types, and still have fun, not re-fight the same battle five times over, waste three hours of my precious time on it and end up with a headache and advance but an inch in the story.

I completely agree.

[Briannandoah]

Hmm. I partially disagree here. A well written story is fun to read or play. But there is a different way you can enjoy your game. As TG said, to test your abilities, and watch your skills improve with time and practice (typical for FPS games). Or to solve a puzzle in a game. To win a sick weimeric battle in Tactics or something like that (well this a sort of a puzzle too).

But what if you know your skills wont get better, no matter how hard you try? That is not fun for me. And since I don't have the time or will to grind over and over again such things, the game will never be finished, and I will be very disappointed.

So it is a good thing that in KotOR 2 this is obligatory (if I ever get the chance to buy it, heh).

People have different ways to play games, and different ways to enjoy them. To me the most important thing is, that these different kinds of people will get their chance to play, if they want to. The games should not only be restricted to those, who want challenge or who want to go over their limits (and who can do this). Or should everyone who is different then just stick to Sims or something similar? (I have never played Sms, so I don't really know what is demanded, but I imagine there aren't much reflexes needed).