53 replies to this topic

[the bigg]

Having played PS:T, Chosen of Cyric encounter and going to play RtW I can vouch that class, race, stat... options really adds to the replayability (even if some are as high as 20 or so). The only ones I don't like is alignment (or reputation/virtue): while they are good for the talked-to replies (a CE wizard with 1 rep is spookier than a LG paladin with 20 rep), I think that the CE wizard is entitled to act good, and vice-versa... of course this will result in an alignment shift, but it's good to have the option

[Feanor]

While I am not a huge fan of stat requirements for initiation of a romance, I do feel that stat checks can have an important role in how an NPC romance mod is experienced - particularly when it comes to adding a little something in the way of potential replay value.  Internal stat checks within NPC dialogues and banters (specifically INT, WIS and CHA checks) can give pleasing extra insight into a character - a nice surprise for players who find that their high intelligence Mage has different things to say to the NPC than their high wisdom cleric, leading to some new revelations about the NPC's nature, past or abilities.  Provided this is not overdone, it can be a rewarding internal extra-flavour "Easter Egg" for players.

Wait a minute, Sir K, I think we are getting a little bit confused here. I'm not refering to additional content according to the PC's Int, Wis and Cha. I am refering to requirements for the romance to function. One such mod is Saerileth, which requires a 16 Cha for the romance. The modders found a solution to prevent the PC using charisma enhancing items, but it's far from perfect. Also some mods in porogress include either a charisma check or a strength check. The idea of a Str requirement for a romance it gives me nightmares, since the chances to lose Str points in battles are high.

[Miss Sakaki]

But as Ashara said, the romance check occurs only once, so that scenario wouldn't happen. i.e. there's an initial romance check for 18 strength (or whatever) and then there are no further checks unless the modder chooses to have the romance end if strength is decreased.

[Delight]

All hope lies in GemRB.

[Feanor]

But as Ashara said, the romance check occurs only once, so that scenario wouldn't happen. i.e. there's an initial romance check for 18 strength (or whatever) and then there are no further checks unless the modder chooses to have the romance end if strength is decreased.

In the Saerileth mod, the romance permanently checks your charisma. And if there is only an initial check, which the PC can easily trick with an item, why bother with a stat requirement in the first place ?

[Miss Sakaki]

Ah, I see what you're saying; I misunderstood, I think.

So is there no way of checking whether a player is using a stat-increasing item other than something along the lines of Saerileth's method or waiting for GemRB?

[Feanor]

Ah, I see what you're saying; I misunderstood, I think.

So is there no way of checking whether a player is using a stat-increasing item other than something along the lines of Saerileth's method or waiting for GemRB?

Exactly. If there is only an initial check, why bother ? If it is a permanent check, then the stats draining attacks will give nightmares to any players.

What's GemRB, BTW ?

Edited by Feanor, 21 July 2005 - 07:30 AM.

[Miss Sakaki]

Here's the link:

http://gemrb.sourceforge.net/

[Imrahil]

Not that it really matters since I sign my posts & all, but that was, like, totally me, or something...

- Imrahil

[jcompton]

Given that BG2 uses ostensibly random stat rolls, which can be rerolled and redistributed at will, and most of us know how to max or otherwise tweak our stats, and the fact that so little of the dialogue and gameplay in BG2 is stat-dependent, glomming stat requirements on a mod romance (or mod NPC's joining conditions, whatever) adds precious little in my view. It says so little about how the PC will behave in the context of the rest of the game.

The engine is imperfect (it's a true pity there's no way to detect successful theft, for instance) but are so many other options to give a character a chance to respond and react to the PC's nature that a stat requirement seems rather worthless and petty by comparison. (And, ultimately, little but an inconvenience to the player who can just load up SK and be romance-ready in a matter of moments.)

[Feanor]

(And, ultimately, little but an inconvenience to the player who can just load up SK and be romance-ready in a matter of moments.)

I was starting from the assumption that the player won't cheat.

[Meira]

I originally put stat requirement for Amber in order to allow player1 to play male as well during the player2 romance. Also I felt that intelligence would be attract her and the you would need a decent charisma to make her believe that letting yourself fall in love would not be a bad idea. I kept both requirements reasonable in my opinion, though. True enough, same effect could have been simulated far better by following which answer options player chooses and judging romance compatibility by that... However, that would probably have been too ambitious for me, I think.

[Fantasy]

Exactly. If there is only an initial check, why bother?

Because it is assumed that a check is made for 'core' PC stats. Yes, yes, of course one can put items on, cast spells and set match that way, but it is generally easy and convenient way to generally access the PC without becoming too involved with it. Besides, if the player is willing to go into all these troubles just to win heart of an NPC - why, that's flattering.

Actually I'm also using a charisma requirement for my mod in progress.

The way I handled it is by looking which items increase the charisma of the player, and by checking if the player has those. If she does then a conversation starts in which the PC is asked to give them, which actually results in the PC temporary losing the items. Then I check the charisma, which now is the real charisma. The outcome then decides if the PC can romance my NPC or not.

If the PC doesn't have those items, then a charisma check is made that determines if the stat is high enough or not. And since I only check it once, the PC is free to use the items during the rest of the game without any problems.

Of course this method doesn't check spells. But if the player is so calculating/eager that a spell is cast just before the conversation, then their reward for all that trouble is that they can indeed romance my NPC with a too low charisma.

Greetings,

Fantasy

[jcompton]

Your NPC is qualifed to to identify the fact that someone they're speaking to is wearing charisma-enhancing items? How very clever of them.

[Fantasy]

You have a good point there. But to be honest he is, qualified to notice that I mean. He has a certain skill with magical weapons/items that allows him this; actually it would be more unlikely if he didn't notice it.

And he keeps a closer eye on the (female) PC because he already feels somewhat attracted to her (this conversation wouldn't happen right away either). Combine that with him knowing it if someone is using magical items, and he would want to see for himself if the attraction only comes from the items, or if he still feels attracted to her after he has the items.

And no, I'm not just making this up this very instance. I've written about him for quite some time now, and this has always been part of him. But I agree that it might not make much sense if I would do the same thing for another character, but I don't intend to either.

Greetings,

Fantasy

[Delight]

Knowing how stupid the human race is we can assume that some NPCs will treat charisma increasing magic items like make-up or hair dying...
Most of those pathetic beings we call humans don't mind that their potential partners fake their looks .
I think that low-wisdom characters would treat magically increased charisma as true one.