41 replies to this topic

[minotaur_in_maze]

Alright I have had enough.

Over a YEAR ago I Tried to put together my dream NPC, and while I had lots of help from the friendly folk here, I am a forty-something man who just barely knows how to do basic computing much less program something for a game.

I have enjoyed my time here, and I do plan to stick around for the D/L's of other modders, but I can truthfully say (Before the pounding of my head on my desk brings about another heart attack) for me - it just ain't Worth it anymore!!!

Still, I have written some WONDERFUL (I believe) dialogs and have a pretty good quest, and my ego is such that I would hate to see the only thing that I am good at go to waste. So...If anyone wants the stuff , drop me a line and it is yours to use. if your feeling generous you might give my writing credit.

MIGHT I make a suggestion or two for tutorials though?

YOU (The writer of the tutorial) KNOW what the hell you are doing, therefore you might feel it not important to put in every little detail. For people like ME, who don't have a clue, this can be annoying.

For instance: In the Area making tuto it reads:

Image 1 - The Tileset Editor

* Select 'Load External tis'
* Change Files of type to 'Bitmap' and load your area bitmap

DTLCEP will import the bitmap, convert it to a tileset and preview it for you. In this case I am loading a warehouse that is part of my mod; we will use this warehouse for the rest of the tutorial. Look at the top left of the screen and note the figures in the Frame Count box - you're going to need them.

Image 2 - Area Preview

* Select 'Back'
* Select 'Save tis as'
* Select 'Create Minimap'

DLTCEP will generate the .mos file. The .mos file is the small area map that you see in the game when you select the Map icon.

A word of advice here. Although areas can share .wed files, it's not a good idea unless you know exactly what you're doing - in which case, you wouldn't be reading this. .wed files must be of six alphanumeric characters; no more, no less. The advice is to name your .tis file with the same name that you will give to its associated .wed file. When you have saved the tileset

* Select 'Exit'
* Select 'Reload chitin'

You'll be doing a lot of the last command; quite often DLTCEP requires to be reloaded to recognise parts that you've just created.


Now... YOU know what the hell you are talking about, and following these directions is great - EXCEPT:

Select "Back" // Okay
Select "Save Tis as" // Can do. (oops, I can't save it to desktop or I find I can't get to it later.)
Select "Create Mini Map" // And...is something supposed to HAPPEN?

Followed by:

Image 3 - My basic wed file data

Save your area and again, give it the same name as the tisfile and the wedfile. We now need to import the tisfile as Overlay 1, the background overlay.

* Click on 'Edit Wed'

You will be presented with a blank Wed Editor.

* Click on 'Set Overlay'

The Tileset Editor will re-appear (image 2).

* Select 'Load External tis'
* Select your tisfile

DLTCEP will preview the tileset as a long list of individual tiles. This is not the result of any bug in DLTCEP; a tileset (.tis) does not contain any information as to exactly how it is laid out. If you were to view the same tileset from the Area Editor, it will display correctly because the .are file does contain the x,y sizes. One thing to be aware of is that if you have more than 704 tiles in the tileset, they will not be displayed here but they do still exist.


Click "Edit Wed" // Which is great, sez please name your wedfile, or something like that) You can browse from the override folder (and noplace else)

Click "Set Overlay" // And I will just ASSUME that that button is SOMEWHERE on the panel...even the picture in the tututorial didn't show it...

Select "Load External tis" // Uhm, yeah... Would that mean "Load External AREA"? based on the fact that the picture in question doesn't have THAT option either... I will just guess.

Anyway, you see where I am going with this. I DID finally get to the box I wanted, going back to the First screen, but...

...Going back to NPC's... Another fun little Item is the policy of TRA'fing... Basically, coding the thing with " @ " where the @ represents...something...that not only makes it easier to mod (I suppose) but has the extra bonus of keeping newbees like me clueless as to what the hell is going on in coding when we open up a Working NPC made by an experienced modder.

Cute.

Like I said, it is simply no longer worth it. For all of you out there who are now cursing me and telling me a I am a stupid b...ard, well, I am a damned good WRITER and such, but for modding... from now on I will lurk and play others (WONDERFUL!) mods.

Dialog and quest free to good home.

Minotaur In maze - EX modder wannabe who has had ENOUGH!!!

[Sir-Kill]

a few of things: I only do things related to graphics, areas are created with a little more ease with IETME at least for begginners untill they catch on to the lingo. a suggestion, why do you not just write for a mod in progress, and maybe someone will code it up for you? sorry to hear you go but if it is not any more fun for you than you simply cannot do it. but maybe you just need a break from it.

[minotaur_in_maze]

I apologize, slightly, for my tone - but not my intent.

Let me STRESS one thing: The Friendly Folk here - SConrad, and Shed top the list but Many have given their two cents worth - HAVE helped me a great deal.

For that I thank them, and you all.

In NO WAY to I mean or wish to imply that this place isn't any good or is not helpful, for it IS a great forum for modding - it's just that things are a little bit beyond me.

I WILL look into writing if anyone needs some dialogs for mods in progress... I think I will ask around in various forums... and I thank you for that suggestion.

It's just that, right now anyway, it just ISN'T any fun, and truthfully I don't need the stress.

I still love this place and support all who CAN mod and I thank those who have the talent to do the deed and make these wonderful add ons.

Minotaur et' all - Not a modder but in awe of them!

[jcompton]

Dorotea taught me this simple trick about dealing with TRA'ified mods: weidu XXXX.DLG where XXXX.DLG is the desirable dialogue name - it will convert the scary TRA and unreadable traified D back into readable D

Well, not really. All that's doing is decompiling a compiled DLG. You won't be retaining anything like CHAIN or EXTEND_TOP or even multisay syntax that way. All you get is a big chunk of long-form states.

If anybody else out there feels unduly excluded by the presence of TRA files, I suggest you open two windows on your screen, with the .d file in the upper and the .tra file in the lower, and browse them in tandem, looking up TRA refs where required. It's easier than railing about conspiracies, in any case.

[Kulyok]

I wonder if there' re any folks like me out there, who like NPC mods and romances, but simply do not have the time to play them?

I've read Longer Road, Edwin Romance and Imoen Romance this way - and for me, yes, .tra is evil. Imoen Romance I read just like Jason Compton suggested: opening .d and .tra in two windows - and gods, didn't I have a headache afterwards...

Reading .d is more pleasurable, I admit, but still not enough. A suggestion, though: why don't include a simple text file (or Word file, if you're unconcerned about the size) file with all dialogues in readable format? (A dream, I know, but so desirable nevertheless. )

The advice "just play the mod!" is certainly valuable, but it takes me two hours to read all dialogue from a mod, and weeks to play it - and having a full-time job and a family does not help, alas.

[NiGHTMARE]

To me, .d & .tra browsing just seems like a slightly more complicated version of those Chose Your Own Adventure books .

[jcompton]

The advice "just play the mod!" is certainly valuable, but it takes me two hours to read all dialogue from a mod, and weeks to play it - and having a full-time job and a family does not help, alas.

Go back to basics. Install the mod and use Infinity Explorer to browse the dialogue tree if you can't handle TRA-browsing.

[Kulyok]

Go back to basics. Install the mod and use Infinity Explorer to browse the dialogue tree if you can't handle TRA-browsing.

Thank you, I'd tried that, but unfortunately, it did not allow to see all the dialogue at once - and with speed-reading of two seconds per page it is inconvenient.

[SimDing0]

Dialog and quest free to good home.

Given that it's not utterly unknown for people to adopt the task of coding NPCs written by somebody else, perhaps you should provide some samples of dialogue to tempt people?

[Seifer]

Dialog and quest free to good home.

Given that it's not utterly unknown for people to adopt the task of coding NPCs written by somebody else, perhaps you should provide some samples of dialogue to tempt people?

I fully agree with this. Sometimes, having a different perspective on the work done thus far by someone else can enrich the original vision.

[Kulyok]

Interestingly enough, the Longer Road, was one mod that I only came to appreciate after I played with it. Dialogue and concept on its own were not compelling, while the game version was. It worked as a mod, and worked great.

Dialogue-wise, it was the best, or one of the best, I have read. Perhaps it is because I like Dorotea's style very much - I have always associated myself with the heroine in her first online novel, Thea - and I keep re-reading both of her novels from time to time.

However, I have not seen a single reply in the mod which I, myself, would say. Not a single one, I always wanted to say a different thing. But of course, it is hard to find an answer for everybody.

[Kulyok]

We have learned to make NPCs that speak all the time, that interject with every other character, that pull you into a new area or introduce some moderately expanded subplot... And we keep doing and keep doing it all over and over again.

Heh, during these four days I have read each and every line in BG1 NPC mod, and I have enjoyed it more than previous three weeks of playing. What can I say? I'm a freak... er, to each her own, I meant.

[Kulyok]

Test-reading is, too, different from reading. It's all the imagination, I think, what makes the world alive. A very good piece of dialogue can bring the whole scene back to life, and one does not need to sit in front of a computer to become a part of it.

I would venture a guess, even, that the more vivid the imagination of a person is, the less inspiration for creating a scene in their imagination they would need.

[Yovaneth]

For instance: In the Area making tuto it reads:

//--snip--//
DLTCEP will generate the .mos file. The .mos file is the small area map that you see in the game when you select the Map icon.

Hmm. DLTCEP doesn't actually show you anything at that point - it just creates the MOS file in your override directory.

A word of advice here. Although areas can share .wed files, it's not a good idea unless you know exactly what you're doing - in which case, you wouldn't be reading this. .wed files must be of six alphanumeric characters; no more, no less. The advice is to name your .tis file with the same name that you will give to its associated .wed file. When you have saved the tileset

* Select 'Exit'
* Select 'Reload chitin'

You'll be doing a lot of the last command; quite often DLTCEP requires to be reloaded to recognise parts that you've just created.

[MiM's comment]
Now... YOU know what the hell you are talking about, and following these directions is great - EXCEPT:
[/MiM's comment]

Select "Back" // Okay

Whoa! If you're quoting directly from the tutorial then there's a HUGE chunk of it missing here between 'Reload Chitin' and 'Select Back'; specifically, the entire introduction loading the .are and .wed files.

Select "Save Tis as" // Can do. (oops, I can't save it to desktop or I find I can't get to it later.)
Select "Create Mini Map" // And...is something supposed to HAPPEN?

Comment as above on MOS files...also, the intro to all of the tutorials does state that you'll be working in the game\override folder. Again, I think somewhere I did say that you'd only copy stuff out of the override folder to archive it.

Click "Edit Wed" // Which is great, sez please name your wedfile, or something like that) You can browse from the override folder (and noplace else)

If you're missing the .wed file intro then yes (or no!) this is going to make absolutely no sense at all. DLTCEP usually defaults to the override folder but you can force it to change in the Setup Settings.

Click "Set Overlay" // And I will just ASSUME that that button is SOMEWHERE on the panel...even the picture in the tututorial didn't show it...

Admittedly, there is no image at that point but it is visible in the next image down (Image 5).

Select "Load External tis" // Uhm, yeah... Would that mean "Load External AREA"? based on the fact that the picture in question doesn't have THAT option either... I will just guess.

Definately 'Load External tis' - but - the text says 'Image 2' and it is in fact 'Image 1'. Time to get the correction fluid out.

No offence taken at - it's only by getting messages like this do I get to sort out any oversights or problems in the tutorials. There are no missed steps or assumptions made anywhere in the text; I do wonder though what happened to the missing intro on the .wed file. That, almost certainly, is the source of all your grief.

Go to here - current DLTCEP tutorials - and Save As the entire webpage for each tutorial. Or get a website capture engine and grab the lot as a continous set. Whichever way you do it, I'd give it a rest for now and come back to it in a week or two. I can't mod/write/play continuously; some weeks I'll spend all week working over one of my vintage motorcycles and I won't go anywhere near a computer out of work because I just can't face them.

-Y-

[jcompton]

Interestingly enough, the Longer Road, was one mod that I only came to appreciate after I played with it. Dialogue and concept on its own were not compelling, while the game version was. It worked as a mod, and worked great.

Interestingly enough, I came to appreciate that Longer Road was relatively more unplayable than it was unreadable.

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the potential player benefits from TRA-browsing that particular mod, as it saves the player from playing the "Guess the Reply Sequence With Ellesime" game at the beginning of TOB, a tedious process involving several reloads.