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Arendil of the Wolf Tribe


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#1 leahnkain

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 09:51 PM

I cannot decide whether or not to stop making this NPC. So if you post your comments telling me if you would like to see him as a playable character you will help decide if he makes the cut. His dialog is just a sample of the PC?s personality. (It has not be edited, there will be mistakes.)


Arendil Bio

Arendil was born in South Wood, near Waterdeep. During his childhood and adolescence, he proved to be an exceptionally strong and vigorous warrior. Arendil, however, regarded himself throughout his life as a traditionalist. He wished to prove himself to be a warrior in the tradition of his ancestors, and he was dissatisfied with what he regarded as the complacent lives led by his fellow wolf tribe members. His family has had strong connections to House Essen and he and Aesdale would often plat together as young boys while their parents would discuss trade. Arendil?s tribe often acts as guards and guides for diplomats leaving Waterdeep on business. Arendil regards Aesdale as a brother and would give his life to save his friend.

Class: Pure Ranger
Race: Wood Elf
I have deleted his cre file. I wrote that his STATS were:
Str: 18(52) Dex:16 Con:16 Int:14 Wis:14 Cha:14

The Strength will probably be adjusted down to 16.

Arendil Intro

Arendil
I have found you my friend. Are you OK Aesdale?

Aesdale
I am happy you are here Arendil! Yes, I am fine. Thank you for coming to search for me Arendil. Althon had said that you had returned to Waterdeep to tell my father.

Althon
Arendil!You foolish muscle headed barbarian! It was important for you to return to Waterdeep to inform Lord Essen what has happened. Why did you come seek out Aesdale. I told you the situation was under my control.

Arendil
Look above us in the sky. Do you see the raven, he has followed us throughout our journey. He is a trickster. He is very clever. He is dangerous. I fear the Raven has been stalking our group.

Aesdale
Arendil, can you stop talking so spooky?I would like to introduce you to <charname>. He freed me.

<Charname>

Nice to meet you. I am <charname> from Oakhurst.

Arendil

Well met. I am Arendil of the wolf tribe. Dark clouds are gathering over your group. I ask you allow me to stay to protect you from the darkness which gathers overhead. Many plot against us. When I returned to Paraway?s people I was told the prisoner escaped. She is like the fox. She hunts us from the shadows. I fear she is hunting Aesdale now.

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#2 -Ashara-

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 12:46 AM

I'd say no, but I an bias, because I generally dislike the idea of too many joinable NPCs all knowing each-other from the waaay back when (it makes me feel that my PC is a chanced guest at a big party and is forced to listen and smile politely to everyone's laughing on the 'internal' jokes and talking how Emily twenty years ago fell into that pond...) I keep thinking that your dialogues are way too choppy and need work on the flow, but I really should stop saying that. 'Tis a matter of taste. :blush:

#3 -Guest-

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 02:25 AM

His dialog is just a sample of the PC?s personality. (It has not be edited, there will be mistakes.)

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Ashara I think Sir BillyBob is doing alot of work. They have a lot of NPC's to write for. They said this is a MOD in progress. Personally I like rangers, could he start with the group? The ranger has an interesting Bio. I like him. It would be better if it was a female ranger.

#4 Fluttering Butterfly

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 03:00 AM

He would be great in my group. I can almost make an all elf group then :P .

#5 -Ashara-

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 04:03 AM

Ashara I think Sir BillyBob is doing alot of work. They have a lot of NPC's to write for. They said this is a MOD in progress.


Yes, I agree with all three statements, and I am cheering their efforts; I can see now that Leahnkian writing style is diffrent from what I tend to like, so I will not be repeating the same comment over and over again. :) Not making another NPC is actually *saving* them a lot of work.

#6 Sir BillyBob

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 05:13 AM

At this point, we are at Chapter 2, and there is a small army of NPCs! Some will get moved back to later chapters. Some you will not meet until the slaver mods (Chapter 3) but are being talked about now. Arendil should have a choppy dialog. It makes him sound like an American Indian trying to use English.

Althon, being an arrogant noble, should have a long winded dialog with large words.

Aesdale is a young elf (he is actually younger than Althon - and Althon is human!). So we need dialogs for a teenager/young adult. He his inexperienced in the world, having spent all of it in Waterdeep's upper society.

At least this is how I view them. Until they get fleshed out more, things can change.

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#7 -Ashara-

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 05:26 AM

Arendil should have a choppy dialog. It makes him sound like an American Indian trying to use English.


But he is an elf with INT and WIS way above average. Quenya is a fluid language, elves are prone to singing even in FR. Why would he be using simple sentences? Why he has to use the same construction two or three times in a row, and repeat the same word twice or thrice within the same small paragraph? It is incredibly irritating to read - at least to me.

Aesdale is a young elf (he is actually younger than Althon - and Althon is human!). So we need dialogs for a teenager/young adult. He his inexperienced in the world, having spent all of it in Waterdeep's upper society.


And as an upper class youth, he would have been schooled in rhetorics, grammar and a few foreign languages, wouldn't he? Or is he actually a child?

Edited by Ashara, 27 August 2005 - 05:26 AM.


#8 Sir BillyBob

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 05:34 AM

Ah, I was thinking you didn't like the content of Aesdale's dialog, not how he says it. Yes, grammar and sentence structure need to be fluffed some for all of the characters. Most of mine (Rurik, Erky, Shadow, and Dirbert) have first drafts of their dialogs. I have not gotten around to writting out a full story of each dialog and what I want them to say. Most get something typed in so the dialog is created and then I move on. Flair is not my style and it is apparent in most of the dialogs. Both of us want assistance and recommendations on better written dialogs. Just don't change what the meaning of the sentence is about.

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#9 -Ashara-

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 05:40 AM

No, no. I don't mind the content at all, just the choppiness. Looking forward to see the polished drafts then :)

#10 Sir BillyBob

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 05:57 AM

Don't hold you breath. That is a low priority for me. I have about 15 PnP mods to add and most will need new areas. I can't steal everything from IWD and PST!

As for Arendil, the wood elf language may be fluid but he is speaking common which may or may not be "common" for him. We could have him talk in elvish (use *Quenya* or something before hand). Just thinking outloud here. By the way, I don't remember the word Quenya in any FR books. Maybe I skipped it but that looked new to me.

Edited by Sir BillyBob, 27 August 2005 - 05:58 AM.

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#11 leahnkain

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 06:09 AM

I am really grateful for all of the feedback I am receiving. I agree my writing style differs from Ashara but I can vary my writing style to please everyone. Some of the NPC?s will have a flowing script which some prefer. I expect to make a lot of revisions in the future. My goal is to create a lot of text, so the game has the BG feel to it. Icewind dale lacks NPC interaction and I don?t want players to feel bored due to this reason. I agree to many?friends? takes the attention away from the main character. My idea is for Arendil to be more like a native American. I can?t imagine him speaking common fluently. That is why I am asking everyone if they would like him in the MOD or not. Thank you all for your comments. I really appreciate them.

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#12 Sir BillyBob

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 06:37 AM

Then perhaps Arendil needs to be more of a Barbarian? I had been thinking of making such a character (not until the giants series, folks). He/she will be a shaman/barbarian type person (I will probably have to create a new kit) that is tracking the giants.

I haven't read much about the wood elves so I am out of my league here. I will have to do some google searches I guess.

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#13 leahnkain

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 05:32 PM

But he is an elf with INT and WIS way above average. Quenya is a fluid language, elves are prone to singing even in FR. Why would he be using simple sentences? Why he has to use the same construction two or three times in a row, and repeat the same word twice or thrice within the same small paragraph? It is incredibly irritating to read - at least to me.


I found reference to the language you mentioned

J.R.R. Tolkien
Also spelt: Qenya, Qendya, Quendya
Also called: High-elven/High-elvish, the High Speech of the Noldor, the Ancient Speech, the speech of the Elves of Valinor, Elf-latin/Elven-latin, Valinorean, Avallonian, Eressëan, parmalambë (Book-tongue), tarquesta (high-speech), Nimriyê (in Adûnaic), Goldórin or Goldolambë (in Telerin), Cweneglin or Cwedhrin (in Gnomish).

I don?t think AD&D and Middle Earth have the same stlye of elves. Wood elves are supposed to be unlikely adventures living in tree homes. They are least civilized of all of the elven races. From the descriptions in the older supplements they seem kind of barbaric. I am someone who speaks a second language daily.(I must use Japanese at work and even after seven years of using the language I tend to repeat words and make mistakes.) English is a fluid language, actually Japanese when spoken by a native Japanese speaker is also very fluid but I can?t imagine just because someone is fluet in their own native tounge to have the same fluency in a second language. Trust me mastering a second language takes a lot of practice. I speak three different languages, I have certificates stating I am a level 1 speaker for proficiency in Japanese, yet I know I am not as smooth sounding as my English. I imagine Arendil?s fluency in common about the same as someone who was an A student in French or Spanish in high school. He doesn?t? ( use the language it should sound choppy and that is being generous. I work in a linguistics department at Nihon University. (The University of Japan.) The one thing I disliked about gaming is it disregarded language as a true skill. I can?t believe all elves speak like a common is their first language. Every language has nuances and phrases which are almost impossible for another culture to grasp. Look at the differences even with accent with our own language. Have you even spoken to an Australian with a heavy ozzy accent? Or how about an Englishman about cars...you know a hood is called a bonnet and a trunk is called a book in Europe? I enjoy your feedback but this is AD&D not middle earth. Make sure you reference the correct material for the correct world. I have all of the Modules and books up to about 1990.( I even have a copy of chain mail.) Please make sure you check the AD&D world before saying how something should be. I am sorry it will be irritating for you to read the dialogs that I am making but this is a MOD in progress. I can increase the quality and write in old English is that is preferred by everyone but that means there will be very few storylines because it will take a lot of time. Right now my idea is to get the main stories and dialogs done so the player can enjoy a variety of banters between all NPC?s. If you are interested in polishing up some dialogs or even writing a few that would be great but right now keeping up with Sir Billy Bob?s pace is my only concern. They dialogs can be fluffed up after. Your criticism is very valuable it allows me to have a different perspective and I can think more deeply about my idea or dialog. Please remember though, this is AD&D check the supplements about wood elves. I am very careful with what I include in the realms. I research with the old books before I write. Many NPC?s are affiliated with obscure organizations which have reference in different books. I hope you can continue to creatively give feedback. I hope you will continue to do so in the future. Of all of the feedback I have received I value yours the most.
As for Arendil, maybe a barbarian is better. the idea is still undecided at this point.

Edited by leahnkain, 27 August 2005 - 05:39 PM.

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#14 Sir BillyBob

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 06:22 PM

Is there enough names for Quenya?

Languages has been one part of a limitation I come across when creating items or trying to build a dialog. Ashara, I see that the BG1NPC mod is using * something * as the standard for narrations outside of the actual spoken words. Some mods use ( something ) and some use both, (* something *). Is * * now a "standard" or just what your team decided on?

I haven't been as consistant as I would like, I usually use ( ) at the beginning of the comment/sentence to indicate a narration. If the mod community is using * *, then I need to change what I am using.

I bring this up because there will be some future banters that the talking members will use something other than common. I want to show this but I also want to make it obvious to the reader. I am not sure of the best method other than to do:

* in elven * Hi there.

Since BG1NPC has the most dialog of any mod, I want to get an opinion or suggestion from you or Andry on how to do this. We can use that here as well for Arendil *broken common* or something.

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#15 -Ashara-

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 03:09 PM

FR elves do seem to speak Quenya, or a variant of it. At least it appears that way, and stylized Quenya (from the Grey Company) is a staple of fanfictioner's FR Elvish. FR writers also borrow Tolkien's names and roots. Drow, on another hand is FR.

FR elves, while lack Tolkien's grandeur are not a bunch of wildlings; they are an ancient culture and remnants of great Empires and keepers of lore. Even a minor tribe of wood elves in Shilmista in Salvatore's Clerical Quintet is quite dashing, their speech anything but primitive. Neither Ellesime, Elhan or Irenicus look or sound barbaric.

While I appreciate the idea of representing a CSL as a CSL, I think it can be done, and at the same time provide a pleasurable read. When I read Tad William's texts for Binabik, I can see pretty clearly that he does not speak his native tongue, but he speaks like a very intelligent creature, knowledgeable of lore, and he is pleasent to read.

It is also my understanding, that Common is not an equvalent of English in FR - it serves rather like Esperanto, an artificial language that does not belong to any race or nation, is not native to any race or nation, but is taught to all (or almost all) surface races - or rather it is like Latin of the Middle Ages - only it is not used just by the educated minority, but by most people. So your human character will have just as much of a non-native flair/accent in Common as an elf, because a human's first language will be his 'regional' language, such as Thorass in Tethyr or Mulani in Thay, not Common.

English is not my first language. I am an ESL and I have spoken/written in two foreign languages -English and French- in my times, have taken non-language classes in both languages, written exams in both languages before I was completely immersed in English. In both cases I tried as hard as I could to speak 'not primitevly'. I found that this was always my greatest desire - not to sound like a five-year-old - when I speake another language. Oh, and by the way, I did have an A in High School English class; I dare say I have never said anything like: "It is a pipe, Dave. It is heavy. We lift it together. It is good." I said: "This pipe looks heavy. Let us try to lift it together, Dave."

Sir Billy Bob: ** is BG1NPC only convention - we have these endless on and off talks about re-editing it back to BG2 style. When I do Elven (or Drow) inserts, I usually make the character repeat it in Common afterwards, as inobtrusively as possible ie:

~Quel fara, <CHARNAME>. Good hunting.~

If the character does not actually say the translated sentence, I put it in paranthesis.

~Rima ten'ta! (Run for it!)~ [P#DEH01]

Edited by Ashara, 28 August 2005 - 04:59 PM.


#16 cujo

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Posted 30 August 2005 - 03:18 AM

Will it be possible to have Arendil in the party without Aesdale or Althon? If this is possible I would certainly like to see him as an NPC and it would add to the replayability of the mod if we can have different combinations of NPC's.

I would consider his stats a bit more though. At the moment his total stat points are 92 which is very high I think. As a suggestion I would lower his INT and CHA. That way you can easily take away something like 6 to 8 stat points and have a more balanced character. Right now his lowest stat is 14 and that means he is very good at everything and not really realistic.

#17 -Ashara-

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 06:08 PM

Just thought I'd let you know, guys, that you can now get back at me for all my nit-picking :)

http://forums.blackw...indpost&p=10967

Edited by Ashara, 31 August 2005 - 06:08 PM.


#18 Sir BillyBob

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 06:48 PM

Okay I quit! I can't compete.

I'm back now. Songs! I couldn't even imagine writing songs. Very, very nice work.

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#19 -Ashara-

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 10:58 AM

Huh, you're too nice :blush: Staying in your wake, here - show the way, Sir.

#20 Lord Ernie

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 12:22 PM

Hmmm... sorry to butt in here, but would you happen to have a link for an Elvish dictionary, or common sayings in Elvish or so? I'm planning to use a bit of it in something I'm writing myself, and I'd be interested to put in something 'real', rather than making stuff up.

Edited by Lord Ernie, 01 September 2005 - 12:22 PM.

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