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Brythe NPC Tolerability, Poll 3


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Poll: Brythe Tolerability (38 member(s) have cast votes)

Which of the following NPCs do you believe most likely could *never*, under any circumstances, coexist with Brythe?

  1. Aerie (6 votes [15.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.79%

  2. Anomen (11 votes [28.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.95%

  3. Jaheira (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

  4. Keldorn (7 votes [18.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.42%

  5. Mazzy (4 votes [10.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

  6. Valygar (1 votes [2.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.63%

  7. Imoen (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. Minsc (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  9. Nalia (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  10. Cernd (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

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#1 Shfelliot

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 07:45 AM

Polls are just fun. ;D Since a major factor within Brythe is going to be character interaction (should you allow Brythe to speak with others, that is) with certain other NPCs, and a delicate balance of being able to negotiate their continued co-existence with Brythe in the PC's party. In other words, there are particular NPCs in BGII who are going to have a *major* problem with being in the company of Brythe.

The fact is, as noted in basically every topic, Brythe is a former admitted serial murderer. He killed 100+ people...men, women, children, indiscrimately. He went through a very warped legal process that probably could have only happened in a nation like Tethyr, where the words 'civil war' is akin to 'Tuesday'. Technically he served his time through the 'letter of the legal process', but it was an admitted corrupt legal process. He *should* have been executed, but he wasn't. He rotted in a Tethyrian dungeon for 63 years, practically forgotten about, surviving and not aging for very mysterious reasons, and suddenly by happenstance is released. It is two years later, and you find Brythe in Athkatla.

Brythe believes himself to be a wall of stone, and he CAN be if you ask him to be, but if deeply probed within conversations you will find him to be a very flawed, real individual who feels, smiles, weeps, fears, and hates just as much as anyone else. Is he changed, can he be changed, or is such a thing possible or even plausible, given the nature of what he has done? All of these are questions you, as the PC, are going to have to determine over the course of the game, should you choose to pursue them.

Obviously, with such forceful and varied personalities such as those found in the main BGII NPC roster that there is a *large* number of which will have serious problems coexisting with such an individual (ie a convicted mass murderer) in the party. And since Brythe is an NPC designed with a good or neutral NPC in mind,

Inasmuch, I am going to be conducting on this forum a series of three polls based on those NPCs I believe to appear, on the onset, to have the most serious conflicts of interest with tolerating being in the party with Brythe. These NPCs are:

Aerie
Anomen
Jaheira
Keldorn
Mazzy
Valygar
Imoen
Minsc
Nalia
Cernd

There are certain NPCs in BGII which will probably have little to no problem tolerating Brythe, at least from the start. These NPCs are of little consequence for the purposes of these polls. These NPCs are: Korgan, Viconia, Edwin, Sarevok, Jan, and Haer'Dalis. The former four for the purposes of that they are already evil to begin with, and the latter two in that they are both chaotic neutral and such have a much more lax initial view of people.

This is *not* to say there will not be conversations that could possibly lead to Korgan wanting to murder Brythe where he stands. The polls, however, are for people who are more *OBVIOUSLY* from the get-go going to have a serious problem associating with someone like Brythe.

There are going to be three polls for this topic: those who you believe through the nature of their personality is most likely to accept Brythe at face value, those who through your negotiating abilities of who you believe might be most able to convince to co-exist with Brythe, and those who you truly believe there is no way in high-hell, to death till us part will NOT be able to tolerate Brythe till the end of BGII because of their beliefs, personality or intentions.

These poll are more for me than anyone, I'll admit it upfront, as I want to see you, the people's responses and thoughts on different NPC's reactions to Brythe from the vague amount of information I've given to you about him, because you have to consider this is *also* just about the amount of information most of the BGII NPCs will have when they join the party. It's going to be a very helpful factor in my writing of the dialogues as I gauge and slowly decide how interactions, negotiating, and personality-conflicts will ultimately decide those who can, or feasibly, who *COULD* co-exist with Brythe and those who ultimately cannot. I want to maximize the options of versatility in a party with taking Brythe along since you'll be a good/neutral NPC, but I also absolutely REFUSE to Mary-Sue him into a co-existence and want to get second opinions. ;D

Please note, if you vote for someone you believe to be an unlikely choice, please post a note why you think they would behave that way.

These results should be interesting. Enjoy!

#2 Minarvia

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 12:22 AM

I voted for Aerie because I think she can't believe that once someone has done such evil could be trusted or redeemed. Plus, I think she would just plain be afraid of him.
I think that Keldorn could tolerate Brythe because, as a paladin, he believes in law and since Brythe has paid his penalty he can be given a "clean slate" so to speak. Well, clean enough that he could atone for his deeds, at any rate.
Of course, I'm probably alone in this opinion and as much as I love BGII I am not as much a "deep thinker" some other players are.

Edited by Minarvia, 31 March 2006 - 12:25 AM.


#3 Andyr

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 10:35 AM

You might want to differentiate between LN/LG Anomen and CN Anomen.
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#4 musekissing

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 02:27 PM

I voted for Jaheira, because the difference between her druidic beliefs and Brythe as a character seems
simply not bearable for her. He is machine, a tool of CHARNAME, does not age in a natural way and still lives as if nature denied him a proper end.
In addition to that he murdered over 100 (I assume) innocent people and was obviously not punished by death. And Jaheira is quite ready to death penalty (look at her comments about Ployer.).
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#5 Alet

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 09:18 AM

My vote is with Jaheria -- but my reason may or may not be kinda out there, so take it or leave it. Brythe is Tethryian, and he was in Tethryian prision, so it's not a great stretch to assume that he committed these murders in Tethyr (but again, you know what they say about assuming). Jaheira is Tethryian, and let us assume (oh dear, we're making a habit of this) that the civil war didn't break out immediately as she was born, rather when she was a kid (game dialogues have always given me this impression, but I can't remember precisely which one, so if someone disagrees with me at this point I have no way to back this up. It's quite possible I got the impression from Silrana's A Capella, in which case my entire argument is null and void). Jaheira is youngish by most accounts, but definitely mentally and physically older than Charname's 20-or-so years -- my own personal guess is that she's early 30some by human reckoning, which would translate to maybe mid-forties for a half elf. So, by the time of her birth, Brythe has been in jail for about 20 years -- long enough to fade from reality -- but not myth. Her parents would have longer memories than humans, but still. (Also assuming both her parents are half-elves, but I have absolutely no reason whatsoever for this)

Personally, I find it very reasonable to assume (how many times can I use that word/phrase in this post, I wonder?) that Brythe was used as a boogeyman of sorts for kid-Jaheira, so she would definitely recognize his name, and his crimes, and would probably remember that she had been terrified of him as a little kid -- which would piss her off immesurably. This, coupled with meeting him, and finding him to either be exactly as her preconcieved notion of him, or nothing at all like that (you've been disgustingly vauge with how Brythe'll act when encouraged to not be a walking meatsheild, you bad, bad, bad man you) will piss her off even more. If he's exactly her preconcieved notion of a monster, she won't be able to cope with Charname allowing him in the party (ESPECIALLY if she's romantically involved with Charname -- it may even lead to some fast talking or an ending of the romance, or bye-bye Brythey), and if he's not at all what she thought, being wrong will piss her off and she won't be able to reconcile the image of a remorseless killer with . . . whoever Brythe is when he's not being a remorseless killer, and in response to this frustration Jaheira will get . . . even more pissed off. The irrational behavior (either on Charname's part or on hers) will further infuriate her, and she'll probably foist all this rage off onto Brythey here, and I think it's safe to assume (didn't think I'd shove that in again, did you??) that he won't take it lying down. Ergo, bitchfight at dawn. Or whatever.

(I tried to make that not insanely long, however I appear to have failed. All apologies. Oh, and damn you and your really awesome characters that make me join forums even though I hate/suck at the forum thing.)

#6 Kaeloree

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 05:12 PM

Actually, Jaheira is 21... canon :-) So I imagine she was a child after the wars. And, of course, there is the fact she was raised in absolute isolation... she was raised in a Druid grove.

Don't even go to the point where you have to think how old Jaheira and Khalid were when they got married. Just don't. ;D

#7 -Guest-

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 06:59 PM

Actually, Jaheira is 21... canon :-) So I imagine she was a child after the wars. And, of course, there is the fact she was raised in absolute isolation... she was raised in a Druid grove.

Don't even go to the point where you have to think how old Jaheira and Khalid were when they got married. Just don't. ;D


o_O WTF, man. WTF. Wait, she's like, 15-equivalent then! a) Where does she get off calling me "child" and B) . . . ewwwww. Every PC I've made follow the Jaheira romance is a pedophile. >___< Way to go Bioware, way to go.

Okay, so my reasoning's probably mostly shot then (unless OMG DROOIDS LUV HORROR STOREIS RITE???), but she's still gonna hate him for being an unrepentant, evil (evil is synonymous with "mass murdering" in Jaheira's mind because, you know, she's weird like that), remorseless, unnatural bastard. So at least my vote still stands. Yay!

#8 Alet

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Posted 20 April 2006 - 07:57 AM

>__> This is why you don't check your email on other computers. Saves you having to go back and be like OOOPS THAT POST UP THERE WAS ME GUYS. Rar.

#9 Azkyroth

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 12:51 AM

Actually, Jaheira is 21... canon :-) So I imagine she was a child after the wars. And, of course, there is the fact she was raised in absolute isolation... she was raised in a Druid grove.

Don't even go to the point where you have to think how old Jaheira and Khalid were when they got married. Just don't. ;D


Where'd that one come from? She certainly acts like she's about 30, and there's really no way to fit that young of an age with her connection with Gorion...

o_O WTF, man. WTF. Wait, she's like, 15-equivalent then! a) Where does she get off calling me "child" and B) . . . ewwwww. Every PC I've made follow the Jaheira romance is a pedophile. >___< Way to go Bioware, way to go.


According to myth-drannor.net's half-elf pages, half-elves grow to adulthood at about the same rate as humans and then age slower thereafter. But if she were 15-equivalent, that would make the PC an ephebophile, not a pedophile.

[EDIT]
PS: I might have to see more of Brythe before I make a final call on it, but if you're looking at any mod NPC interactions I'm quite certain Arkalian would have a major problem with him, both because of her personality and beliefs and because of her past...

Edited by Azkyroth, 21 April 2006 - 12:52 AM.

"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard

#10 Kaeloree

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 03:30 AM

Dave Gaider posted it- he was asked about Khalid and Jaheira's ages, and he said they were around 21, IIRC. She's about the same age as the PC.

I don't have the link to the post, but I'm sure its right. :-)

#11 Bookwyrme

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 01:05 PM

Probably Aerie; she'll leave the party if you keep Korgan for too long, and Brythe is (or was) far worse than Korgan ever was.

Granted Korgan actively threatens her where Brythe might not, but I think it'd be a stretch for Aerie to accept him.

I'm not sure how tolerant Keldorn would be either. My guess would be that he'd let Brythe stay--but that he'd also let Brythe know that he was watching him very, very carefully and that he 'd express his concerns to the PC.

I can't, offhand, think of any reason Cernd would refuse to travel with him. He'd be bothered by Brythe's aparent unnaturalness, but he raises little protest over Sarevok in TOB, so a bit of unnatural life doesn't seem to trouble him overmuch.

Minsc doesn't seem too troubled with history. The only evil NPC he can't stand is Edwin, and that's partly Edwin's own doing.

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#12 Azkyroth

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 02:28 PM

Since Korgan, despite being an evil bastard generally, has a hangup about harming children, he might have objections to Brythe--probably not to the point where they couldn't be in the same party, but...
"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard

#13 EpitomyofShyness

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 02:00 PM

I voted Anomen, because as LN/LG he wouldn't be able to accept Brythe out some sort of self righteous 'He is evil BWAH' attitude. And I don't think he could stand him long enough to become CN/LG. Now if you picked Brythe up after Anomen was CN I can see Anomen getting along with him just fine. But I'm not so sure how hard that would be to code... So in other words unless you pick up Anomen far enough along in his quest that he will soon become CN and you have taken the CN path I can't see him accepting Brythe, especially if the PC was interested in Brythe romantically. If that happened and the PC was at least being polite to him I can see him attempting to kill Brythe then and there. Or maybe I just tend to find Anomen irritating... Then again it is also fun when he one ups other NPC's.

Sorry... I rambled...