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TeamBG Revival


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#1 igi

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 01:40 PM

Regardless of how long you've been around the IE Community, the chances are you’ve come across the letters TBG at some time.You've probably noticed that TBG is no longer around. Perhaps you've even thought "Wouldn’t it be great if the place was still kicking about"?

Well guess what? It is! Some of the old timers have been getting nostalgic and decided to reform the old homestead. While IE editing has certainly moved on from when TBG was last around, there is still a need for creativity, originality and guidance. TBG has been reformed in the hopes it can provide a home for these aspects of mod making, and also supply expertise on the technical aspects of mod making. We also want to stir the creative pots a little and see what we can inspire others to do, and we've got a few new tools and tutorials to help out.

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#2 the bigg

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 01:50 PM

While IE editing has certainly moved on from when TBG was last around, there is still a need for creativity, originality and guidance. TBG has been reformed in the hopes it can provide a home for these aspects of mod making, and also supply expertise on the technical aspects of mod making. We also want to stir the creative pots a little and see what we can inspire others to do, and we've got a few new tools and tutorials to help out.

So, what the fuck is making it inappropriate to have these things at any other community, as it has been for the last, uh, four-and-an-half years (IE, since WeiDU was created)? Three years, if you count from TBG demise.

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
Maintainer: Semi-Multi Clerics - Nalia Mod - Nvidia Fix
Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.


#3 -Guest-

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 02:28 PM

My service provider doesn't allow me to connect to port 82, which is required to access TeamBG.eu. Is there any possibility of recitfying this strange port usage--this is the only site I've encountered since being here that has such a requirement.

#4 igi

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 02:45 PM

So, what the fuck is making it inappropriate to have these things at any other community, as it has been for the last, uh, four-and-an-half years (IE, since WeiDU was created)? Three years, if you count from TBG demise.


Well, you've rasied several issues here. Originality and creativity should obviously be welcomed at any IE Modding forum. The fact that they dont seem to exist at the levels we want is one of the main reasons for TBG being revived.
As for new tools and tutorials being hosted at other sites - well, if a few people are to write several new tools and tutorials, what's wrong with them having a central site to post them at?



My service provider doesn't allow me to connect to port 82, which is required to access TeamBG.eu. Is there any possibility of recitfying this strange port usage--this is the only site I've encountered since being here that has such a requirement.


Thats unfortunate. We've already had a quick look into the issue, and it's not something we can resolve overnight. We do have plans to fix this, but not our number 1 priority.
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#5 the bigg

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 02:48 PM

Well, you've rasied several issues here. Originality and creativity should obviously be welcomed at any IE Modding forum. The fact that they dont seem to exist at the levels we want is one of the main reasons for TBG being revived.
As for new tools and tutorials being hosted at other sites - well, if a few people are to write several new tools and tutorials, what's wrong with them having a central site to post them at?

Oh, yes, reviving the use of IDU and IAP. Must've overlooked the advantages of that.

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
Maintainer: Semi-Multi Clerics - Nalia Mod - Nvidia Fix
Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.


#6 igi

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 02:56 PM

Oh, yes, reviving the use of IDU and IAP. Must've overlooked the advantages of that.


Perhaps you also missed the bright red text explicitly stating they are not for general use?
Perhaps you missed the fact that nowhere on the TeamBG site does it say "use IDU and IDW, because they are perfect and great"?
Perhaps you also missed the fact that old versions of other tools (e.g. WeiDU) can also be downloaded, complete with bugs, which have much less explicit notes not to use them?

Anyway, if you have any construtive criticism to offer, we'll be glad to hear it.
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#7 the bigg

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 03:06 PM

So, OK, currently TBG doesn't offer (or mention) WeiDU, NI and DLTCEP (and contains tutorials for IEEP, rather than NI or DLTCEP), and is publicized as the ultimate listing of stuff? That's a pretty big contradiction in my book.

the paragon with older weidu versions really doesn't work, since the front page has the Win32-weidu download at the top and to get the older versions you need to browse to a separate file, which dumb users won't think of doing, and experienced users know better than doing. But that's fine, since crappy comparisons is your forte.

If you want constructive criticism,
sudo rm -rf *

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
Maintainer: Semi-Multi Clerics - Nalia Mod - Nvidia Fix
Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.


#8 igi

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 03:18 PM

So, OK, currently TBG doesn't offer (or mention) WeiDU, NI and DLTCEP (and contains tutorials for IEEP, rather than NI or DLTCEP), and is publicized as the ultimate listing of stuff? That's a pretty big contradiction in my book.


The TBG tools section lists tools created by TBG. WeiDU, DLTCEP and NI all have their own sites, and were not made by TBG, so they are not listed in the tools section. They will be listed as links when the Link section is set-up. As for tutorials, I'm afraid neither I, nor any of the other TBG staff can write/rewrite a bunch of tutorials in the extremely short timespace we've had. I am also afraid you may not have read the News post in it's entirity, which states that new tutorials are on the way.
Also, as far as I can see, TBG doesn't proclaim itself the "ultimate lisiting of stuff".


the paragon with older weidu versions really doesn't work, since the front page has the Win32-weidu download at the top and to get the older versions you need to browse to a separate file, which dumb users won't think of doing, and experienced users know better than doing. But that's fine, since crappy comparisons is your forte.


So, either a users a link saying "download old versions" and download one, or the user reads the text "do not download/use this, unless you know what it's for" and then downloads something. IMHo, both are pretty unlikely. If you think the bright red text is not clear enough, we'll consider moving the legacy tools to a separate page.

sudo rm -rf *

I think you need to lookup the definition of constructive.
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#9 Azkyroth

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 04:35 PM

Ironic; I took my 23-month old to play group earlier and she got in a minor squabble with another girl over use of certain toys...

Anyway, does this mean we're going to find out what the ELF happened to TeamBG in the first place? Because I've been wondering...
"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard

#10 Yovaneth

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 01:55 AM

Anyway, does this mean we're going to find out what the ELF happened to TeamBG in the first place? Because I've been wondering...

IIRC the original site got hacked three (two?) times and Ken quite rightly got fed up with paying his hosting service a fee to unhack the site. That was the main part of it; there were other problems too (I seem to recall a set of HDD failures) but at this point I don't remember them all, nor do I claim to remember it correctly.

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#11 the bigg

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 01:58 AM

They will be listed as links when the Link section is set-up.

So, you've randomly decided that the IE mod list at PPG is inadequate for your needs, and you'll recreate it, only with the added TBG bullshit flavor?

I think you need to lookup the definition of constructive.

Spend less time reviving old bullshit and copying-pasting tutorials from another site to there (or updating IAP tutorials to WeiDU tutorials), spend more time researching new stuff and/or jerking off. That's better time investment in my book.

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
Maintainer: Semi-Multi Clerics - Nalia Mod - Nvidia Fix
Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.


#12 igi

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 05:11 AM

Anyway, does this mean we're going to find out what the ELF happened to TeamBG in the first place? Because I've been wondering


Thats a good point. I'll see if we can get something up on the site tonight about it.



So, you've randomly decided that the IE mod list at PPG is inadequate for your needs, and you'll recreate it, only with the added TBG bullshit flavor?


I think the Modlist and the TBG tools section provide very different services.
I don't see how the TBG tools section is different from the SHS download section, or the G3 mod section... surely you agree each site should list it's own products (as well as perhaps listing them in a central list)?


Spend less time reviving old bullshit and copying-pasting tutorials from another site to there (or updating IAP tutorials to WeiDU tutorials), spend more time researching new stuff and/or jerking off. That's better time investment in my book.


Bigg, do you have a point to this ranting about the TBG revival?
Any particular reason you don't want more tools/tutorials/originality?
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#13 the bigg

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 05:33 AM

Bigg, do you have a point to this ranting about the TBG revival?
Any particular reason you don't want more tools/tutorials/originality?

Yes. As it is now, you're reviving IEEP, IDU and IAP, with relevant tutorials. This is not a good thing.
The forums started with account deletion and post deletion in 'IDU sucks' posts. This does not promise any good, either.

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
Maintainer: Semi-Multi Clerics - Nalia Mod - Nvidia Fix
Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.


#14 igi

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 09:25 AM

Yes. As it is now, you're reviving IEEP, IDU and IAP, with relevant tutorials. This is not a good thing.
The forums started with account deletion and post deletion in 'IDU sucks' posts. This does not promise any good, either.


Many modders still use IEEP, and as such it has a place in the modding community - it has a much friendlier GUI than either DLTCEP or NI.
IAP is a valid distribution tool. Files packaged with IAP are small, easy to install, easy to uninstall and require little knowledge to effectively package. It's only shortcoming, albeit a relatively major one, is a lack of compatabiltiy between mods. Even this downside doesn't preclude it's use - it's a valid form of distributing a few simple files between people in a modding team, for example. Even so, I'm pretty sure we'll be pushing WeiDU as a mod distribution method in the new tutorials which we have planned.
As for IDU (and IDW) - I've already mentionned they are *clearly* marked as legacy tools. The only thing further to this we could do would be to either remove them, or move them to another category - and I've already said we will consider this.

About the forums - the only account and post deletion I am aware of relates to accounts and posts created *before we were even open to the public*!


If you give the TBG revival a bit of time to finish getting set-up, you may be impressed. Although, given your recent posts, no doubt you'll bitch no matter what we do.
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#15 -Guest-

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 10:36 AM

Any particular reason you don't want more tools/tutorials

I think you're going to have to offer something beyond obsolete tools and associated tutorials if you want to establish yourselves as anything more than pretentious. Give us some mods which are not Game-Be-Gone.

/originality?

I'm unclear on why you're so adamant that you're going to spark unseen levels of creativity, unless you're going to continue the TeamBG tradition of encouraging everyone and their dog to try and make a TC.

#16 jester

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 11:10 AM

I think the advantages of the available tools are widely known for those who care. As much as I like witty provocation, I doubt a mere 'IDU sucks' will cut it, but preaching to the choir is a fav pastime for those fed up with their games already.

Different approaches merit different fora. What the heck, even different shoesizes seem to merit different fora, blogs, tags, youtube-entries and everything else nowadays. :-P
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#17 Delight

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 12:05 PM

OMG. My dreams have come true :crying: .
Thank you IGI.
...

#18 igi

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 12:55 PM

I think you're going to have to offer something beyond obsolete tools and associated tutorials if you want to establish yourselves as anything more than pretentious. Give us some mods which are not Game-Be-Gone.


Obviously we don't intend to just recycle what we aready have. Tools and tutorials are already in production, and there are plans for mods too.

I'm unclear on why you're so adamant that you're going to spark unseen levels of creativity, unless you're going to continue the TeamBG tradition of encouraging everyone and their dog to try and make a TC.


If everyone were to make a quality TC, we'd be pleased, but it's not terribly likely. We are hoping to encourage people to make more us of the engine, and apply a little more thought into what is produced though.
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#19 the bigg

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 01:09 PM

Obviously we don't intend to just recycle what we aready have. Tools and tutorials are already in production, and there are plans for mods too.

Announcing your grand opening when said tools and tutorials are ready was too difficult? Having serious content would help people (E.G. me) consider TBG revival not a badly told joke.

If everyone were to make a quality TC, we'd be pleased, but it's not terribly likely. We are hoping to encourage people to make more us of the engine, and apply a little more thought into what is produced though.

So, how is opening a modding community increasing quantity and/or qualities of mods being produced? I'm still missing the point in here. Otherwise, I'd already be off opening an online dating service.

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
Maintainer: Semi-Multi Clerics - Nalia Mod - Nvidia Fix
Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.


#20 Delight

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 01:35 PM

A pure modding community is a heart of all modding.
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