93 replies to this topic

[AnnabelleRose]

....If you saw my version of a modded bg2, man would you be surprised B)

Now I am super curious.

Be interesting to see what one of the old crowd is still playing with. B)

[Himself]

Droped bg for more than a year, then last december (2005) I actually installed it again and tried to make my old files compatible with everything that is new (mostly every string under 74103, the last one that tob patch adds, had to be redirected), the rest was not so hard, but string matching took some time

Changes are too many, but mostly are economy reworked (earning money is actually hard), xp given is like 30% to 40% of what it originally was, and most items that are obviously too powerful or make the game way too easy were either remade or removed (no +5 items that you find here and there and have a 100% stun without even a chance for the enemy to save, this kind of cheapness, the most I would give is a 10% chance to stun with a save!, and you would have to kill someone INSANELY powerful to put hands into a +4 or +5 item), also changed the price for most items and made powerful equipment (that is not sold) be harder to find into the game. For example kachiko comes with a +2 and a +3 sword (instead of +3 and +4). And there is no "setting" of stats, everything only adds points to stats, from the basic giant strength belt to spells like holy power or righteous magic.



Also most spells that mods add are way too powerful, edited those too.



The rest is mostly cosmetic, I dont like enemies that "materialize" out of thin air, so I always try to use effects like spfleshs, or the kind.

Aisde from all that, is just bug correction or making some things into the game more beliveable.. or less stupid

[Miraz]

Also most spells that mods add are way too powerful, edited those too.

You got that right, I remember the first time I cast Smart Fireball ... I was like "WHAT???"

That spell got erased from my spellbook so fast.

[GeN1e]

Heh. Then I'm not the only one who changes existing rules. In addition to your improvments, Himself, I also have made a number of monsters (a bit) tougher.

And, yeah, I've edited a some 2DA files as well. Seeing how fighters make 4 attacks per round dealing >20 damage is not for me too.

Edited by GeN1e, 05 August 2006 - 04:23 AM.

[Himself]

The above one was me, forgot to log

[zachD]

Heh sounds fun.

Tangent incoming.

I am curious though, you guys make it sound easy. I was tentatively thinking about trying to get into modding some BG stuff up in the not to distant future. But, after my recent experiences here - trying to play the released mods - and encountering alot of problems in the process, my inclination is waning into the *not going to try it* side. Obviously for those somewhat knowledgable of scripting and WeiDu and the IE, playing through the mods would be easier. For me every time I encounter a problem I have to research it/post about it etc and wait for replys if I cant figure out what the problem is. This can lead to no small amount of frustration for me. So now I just cant picture myself creating something that works smoothly without any severe problems if I was to attempt modding, (BG wise) after ive had so many problems just trying to play some of the basic mods, and seeing how many problems they have. Albeit some of my troubles are related to newbness, alot of em arent.

But the impression I get from you guys is different. Obviously some of you are capable modders/script manipulators and you hack your games up to run as you desire. The impression that comes across from some of you is that the game can be played through smoothly with some confidence, and with a bit of tinkering.

After trying to play through SoS and some TDD content on a very basic BP install, I am left with a definite feeling that no matter how good a modder is, the BP components will never work together smoothly without severe problems. By extension of that, my inclination to get into modding is rather dampened to say the least. And I wonder how many people have ever completed a BP game with said components without any severe problems.

But I am still new to this so no idea if my experience is representative of the norm for a simple gamer who approaches the mods with no technical knowledge. I really have no idea.

What I dont understand is this:

The knowledgable people/modders here who support and inform the forums
seem technically competent and capable - additionally when they talk about their own games they seem to 1) have few problems 2)evidence an ease of use/manipulation of the game to a degree where the game play is relatively smooth/problem free (obviously the technical competence helps).

For me this *smooth game* seems an impossibility. Technical knowledge aside, I cant picture myself playing through a complete BP installation even when I follow the instructions to the letter, just too many severe bugs/problems.

(Here my current install is a good example: BP177, TDD111, TS40601, a very basic install on top of the usual BGII - SoA/ToB. Installed fine. Started game fine - but opps, somehow the Copper Coronet is right bugged and crashes the game every time I try to enter, effectively hooping the game.)

So if the modders are capable, and the mods are compatible, how is the *smooth game* such an impossibility?

Mostly a rhetorical question I guess. But thats how I feel. Its an impossibility to me. If the scripting is that easy why the severe game destroying bugs after years of play and developement.

Guessing some of it lies in the nature of scripting and trying to unite these components that come from such different places, as has been said.

As a active modder when you approach a BG project, do you approach with the confidence that what you are going to build will run relatively smooth and problem free?

Sorry for the meandering topic~

[Miraz]

You have to understand zach, that you're dealing with so many different components and elements in the game that it's sometimes impossible to foresee an error or incompatibility until it's released. Game developers spend months and months working full time in order to get games to run smoothly without any bugs, and even then most games require patches in order to fix bugs post-release.

When you consider how this is just a bunch of guys working in their spare time as a hobby, coming up with entirely new code for the game, it's amazing that these things run at all.

[zachD]

Yep. I know.

The frustration gets to me after a while, well it did anyways.

[maximus2001]

"Oh sure your game will start out ok....and hell depending on yer PC the mods may even work fine. But theres no way in hell I would have gotten through SoS without using the CLUA, or into TDD content as the second map/area is unreachable on the map."


Ditto....I feel your pain zach.

After reinstall the stutter creeps back in eventually. After leaving everything to go to NEJ2 everything was fine till I bought another bag of holding and only put about 30 things in it. Walked outside and said wtf, could notice it right away. After dispensing with a bunch of spells/potions it seemed to get better. Of course I could be wrong and scripts are going off

Also had to use CLUA a lot. In my game Ulcaster does't show, and Purska is "unreachable destination" after it shows on worldmap.

[younes]

Just to add to the confusion about game stutter...
My game started to get slugish after I received the invitation to go to Lord Farrahd's party, then did get worst in the planar prison, and finally almost became a game stopper during the quest of the Shadow Lord (Umar Hills), but as soon as I finished the test of Amaunator (the 3 prayers and put together the pieces of the symbol into 1) the game came back to being joyfully smooth! I didn't discard any item and I have a reasonable number of arrow/bullets (~ 5000 total for all my characters) distributed between 2 botomless bags of holding, gem bag, potion bag and scroll bag...
Any comment onn this one?

[GeN1e]

I've seen such thing three times.

[Promilus]

I noticed that sometimes (mostly if u use build in audio cards based on AC 97 codec <which are not "cards" in real>) in some areas games has BIG slowdowns even on quite good config (CPU 2800+, RAM 1GB, GFX 64MB/128bit). Solution of this one is simple...first try without environment sounds...if it is still "laggy" disable effects sounds also.

Another way of incrising speed is biffing override folder....which is made mostly by ntotsc and some other mods.

[Escape1sm]

Game developers spend months and months working full time in order to get games to run smoothly without any bugs, and even then most games require patches in order to fix bugs post-release.

When you consider how this is just a bunch of guys working in their spare time as a hobby, coming up with entirely new code for the game, it's amazing that these things run at all.

I'm just your average jane Doe, I play when i get the chance, but when you start talking about scripting, bcs files, biffing etc, you might as well be talking greek to me.

I've a lot of respect and admiration for you guys/gals that can script, and make these mods for the rest of us and extend the enjoyment i get out of BG - Thankyou.

I've a hyperthetical situation for you:

If all you guys were working on an expansion for BG, that was to be released to the unwashed masses on a cd format, that had all the mega and mini mods that this site had to offer, how would you do it?

I understand enough to know that alot of the mods have duplicated content (i use the term duplicated, not in a copycat sense) where depending on which mod you instal last, an earlier installation, could and does have some of its content voided (hope this makes sense) i think kits can do this.

also, if someone or somepeople made all the mods into one downloadable file (regardless of size - i know some have issues with downloading large files), would this resolve the stuttering? would you creaters be willing to alter your scripting if it meant, this mega mod install, or BG3 expansion pack, worked smoothly?

I can see the cd now, BG3 - Legends of Spellhold

my game started stuttering today, im still in BG1 right at the beginning, picked up a gem bag in FAI, and started to get a little, but ignored it, as sometimes the game 'lags' anyway, even juat playing the cd game) picked up a scroll case at Beregost, it started lagging even more, and a bag of holding from the mines i believe, at which point the game froze every 2 seconds, including the clock and mouse. so i quit and came here.

ive since dropped my containers except bag of holding and its almost back to normal - going to drop the other one, when i play again.

[berelinde]

The container thing is a separate issue, and it's well known. It's from asking the poor machine to try to do too much at once. Yeah, you might have a fast machine with a powerful processor and 1GB+ memory available, but you are limited by the slowest step, which is likely the circa 2001 game engine.

When you see the clock slow down and get jerky too, that's lag time, and it means you're trying to do too much, whether because everybody's got their own bottomless bag o'holding or because everybody's wearing boots of speed and has matching rings of regeneration. If none of those things apply, you might see some improvement if you turn down your settings: turn off static animations, that kind of thing.

Stutter is something else: it's when a single NPC keeps moving jerkily, if at all, and doesn't complete movement instructions. Sometimes, the NPC will turn to the PC, but won't speak. That's a script loop.

[maximus2001]

The container thing is a separate issue, and it's well known. It's from asking the poor machine to try to do too much at once. Yeah, you might have a fast machine with a powerful processor and 1GB+ memory available, but you are limited by the slowest step, which is likely the circa 2001 game engine.

When you see the clock slow down and get jerky too, that's lag time, and it means you're trying to do too much, whether because everybody's got their own bottomless bag o'holding or because everybody's wearing boots of speed and has matching rings of regeneration. If none of those things apply, you might see some improvement if you turn down your settings: turn off static animations, that kind of thing.

Stutter is something else: it's when a single NPC keeps moving jerkily, if at all, and doesn't complete movement instructions. Sometimes, the NPC will turn to the PC, but won't speak. That's a script loop.

I was going to make another post about this, but seeing as you brought it up already...

In my game BP, TS, NEJ2, SOS, TDD, ROT have of course encountered this. However, the Main Slowdown occurs (for me at least) when the npc scripts kick in. Definitely in my game there was: Anomen (before 2nd quest), Robillard (comes and goes depending how long in party), Mazzy (before her Pala quest), Edwin (once he is Edwina), and sometimes Aerie.
All stutter went away totally once their quests were completed.

Their stutter was a lot worse than lots of items (arrows, etc.). The clock in the corner would barely move and rain would start/stop etc. I would only get the bag/item stutter if I had more than 2000 or so items(arrows,potions). So in my game the culprit was the npcs.

[Escape1sm]

The container thing is a separate issue, and it's well known. It's from asking the poor machine to try to do too much at once. Yeah, you might have a fast machine with a powerful processor and 1GB+ memory available, but you are limited by the slowest step, which is likely the circa 2001 game engine.

When you see the clock slow down and get jerky too, that's lag time, and it means you're trying to do too much, whether because everybody's got their own bottomless bag o'holding or because everybody's wearing boots of speed and has matching rings of regeneration. If none of those things apply, you might see some improvement if you turn down your settings: turn off static animations, that kind of thing.

Stutter is something else: it's when a single NPC keeps moving jerkily, if at all, and doesn't complete movement instructions. Sometimes, the NPC will turn to the PC, but won't speak. That's a script loop.

Hmmm, i had started a new BG1 game, and could barely afford normal arrows/boots. The bags/scroll cases etc, had less than 20 items, i had no boots of speed/rings of regen, and i had sound turned off completely and graphics at a minimum, but nothing made a difference.

Once i dumped the bags/cases it went back to normal.

i doubt very much that i was trying to do too much, the problem happened when the bags/cases was in my invent, and stopped when they weren't. That, imho, means the bags/cases are to blame.

[seanas]

Hmmm, i had started a new BG1 game, and could barely afford normal arrows/boots. The bags/scroll cases etc, had less than 20 items, i had no boots of speed/rings of regen, and i had sound turned off completely and graphics at a minimum, but nothing made a difference.

Once i dumped the bags/cases it went back to normal.

i doubt very much that i was trying to do too much, the problem happened when the bags/cases was in my invent, and stopped when they weren't.  That,  imho,  means the bags/cases are to blame.

there are some mods - and i can't remember which ones at the moment, i'm afraid - which continually check yr inventory, including containers, for specific items (to alter/remove/modify them), which when combined with the unlimited bags mods that everyone has installed, means that the script engine is perpetually checking yr bags on the off chance that item x is there when it wasn't 0.15 seconds previously. from memory, again, these mods dont typically show slowdowns on non-Mega Mod installs, which is all they were ever tested on. on Mega mods installs, however, they cause death by slowdown. as i said, i cant remember which mods these are, so i'm not of great help, but that's why some ppl get the bag-slowdown and others dont - you could always try removing the unlimited bag mods; altho this is drastic, it should offer a workaround - unless someone else cn identify the actual mod doing the constant inventory checking.

[Chevalier]

I don't think you should install 'Gradual Drow Item Disintegration' form 'BG2 Tweak Pack' and if you have try removing it.

[Azazello]

Escape1sm, I hope you read thru this entire thread as most of your points would have been covered. Also some good workarounds in here.

What you're asking about bundling the mods together is actually making all the separate mods into one big mod. Not gonna happen. Nobody's gonna invest their life to do that. Plus there is no indication that that would remove or reduce the stuttering. End of story.

You have read the thread about the largest MegaInstall? They use 10 times more mods than the rest of us. No one from their team has reported stuttering -- and I am sure they would if it happened.

It's been said before - many times - but it's important to repeat: stuttering is not caused by any one or two things; it follows no reason, no rhyme; it is not consistent amongst mod lists. One person gets terrible delays, another player same list has no problem at all. Some have trouble with NPC scripts, area scripts, bags/cases, etc., but others do not.

I currently have 2 not-unlimited Bags of Holding and no stuttering. But in other games I had 1 not-unlimited Bag of Holding and got stutter-slammed.