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Are Redemption & TDD compatable


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#1 -Lord Snuffleupagus-

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 10:17 AM

...please say yes!!!... ;)

#2 Seifer

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 10:57 AM

Yes they are. TDD overrides the TLK file where Redemption adds to it.

you ned acension though.

how come you always look so damn cool in every photo I see you in?!?


Speaking of modding, I listened to IER 3 yesterday, so you can have another quote for your signature: how come you sound so damn cool, as well as look it? It's unfair. Seriously.


Still a cyberjock, still hacking the matrix, still unsure of what that means.

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#3 -Lord Snuffleupagus-

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 11:28 AM

Yes they are. TDD overrides the TLK file where Redemption adds to it.

you ned acension though.

Would it be possible to get a list of MODS/ADD-ONS that Redemption is compatable with? To have a MOD that lends on to the, IMO, horribly under-written Jon Irenicus is a very valuable MOD indeed.

;)

#4 dorotea

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 02:18 PM

As far as I know Rdemption is compatible with EVERY other WEIDU based mod. I have no idea about non-WEIDU. And honestly think that it is a risky business to try combine TBG mods with WEIDU ones. So far I did not get any complains from the players who have any possible combination of WEIDU mods that were not resolved quickly by re-installation. There was an issue reported about TDD though. Citing jcompton here:

TDD, at least before 1.0.3a and possibly even in that version, depends who you ask, had a malformed chitin.key file that would in effect cause WeiDU to grab the "wrong" SONGLIST.2DA when patching it. The net effect was to shut off all new TOB music when a WeiDU ADD_MUSIC command was performed.


Redemption does use ADD_MUSIC.

By the way - I am thinking about an extended Redemption mod - I shall tentatively call it "Redemption - the Longer Road". It will abide with the current Redemption plot but will shift the events a little so you can have Jon-Jon as a party memeber through the entire ToB. I am thinking of serious confict interactions between Jonny and various npcs including Jaheira, Imoen (especially her!), Minsc and Sarevok. Also 'closer relationship' with PC. Probably not a romance in either male or female version but sort of mutual hate-hate attraction and deeper exploration of the fact that they shared the same soul. B)

Freedom cannot be equated with goodness, virtue, or perfection. Freedom has its own unique self-contained nature; freedom is freedom ? not universal goodness. Any confusion or deliberate equalization of freedom with goodness and excellence is in itself negation of freedom, and acceptance of the path of restraint and enforcement.

Nikolai Berdyaev - Christian Existentialist, Philosopher of Freedom.


The Longer Road mod
Redemption mod
Bitter Grey Ashes


#5 -Lord Snuffleupagus-

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 02:59 PM

As far as I know Rdemption is compatible with EVERY other WEIDU based mod. I have no idea about non-WEIDU. And honestly think that it is a risky business to try combine TBG mods with WEIDU ones. So far I did not get any complains from the players who have any possible combination of WEIDU mods that were not resolved quickly by re-installation. There was an issue reported about TDD though. Citing jcompton here:

TDD, at least before 1.0.3a and possibly even in that version, depends who you ask, had a malformed chitin.key file that would in effect cause WeiDU to grab the "wrong" SONGLIST.2DA when patching it. The net effect was to shut off all new TOB music when a WeiDU ADD_MUSIC command was performed.


Redemption does use ADD_MUSIC.

By the way - I am thinking about an extended Redemption mod - I shall tentatively call it "Redemption - the Longer Road". It will abide with the current Redemption plot but will shift the events a little so you can have Jon-Jon as a party memeber through the entire ToB. I am thinking of serious confict interactions between Jonny and various npcs including Jaheira, Imoen (especially her!), Minsc and Sarevok. Also 'closer relationship' with PC. Probably not a romance in either male or female version but sort of mutual hate-hate attraction and deeper exploration of the fact that they shared the same soul. B)

An extended "redemption" for Irenicus sounds simply delicious!!! You are indeed a manevolent genious in all things elven and fallen!

;)

#6 dorotea

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 03:19 PM

An extended "redemption" for Irenicus sounds simply delicious!!! You are indeed a manevolent genious in all things elven and fallen!


Am I? grumble grumble Last time I checked I did not have the pointy ears yet, but I am working on it. ;) As for things fallen - I gather you've been reading the Bitter Ashes. Thanks! Hopefully I can become the genius of 'things mended and healed' as well ...

Freedom cannot be equated with goodness, virtue, or perfection. Freedom has its own unique self-contained nature; freedom is freedom ? not universal goodness. Any confusion or deliberate equalization of freedom with goodness and excellence is in itself negation of freedom, and acceptance of the path of restraint and enforcement.

Nikolai Berdyaev - Christian Existentialist, Philosopher of Freedom.


The Longer Road mod
Redemption mod
Bitter Grey Ashes


#7 Seifer

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 04:33 PM

I forgot about that...!
A continuation of the alignment based theme is in order if you are considering an expansion. neutral or Good only in my opinion.

This has possibilites but the levelling up issue would also be a problem as well as getting the fate spirit to summon him as well. Undead and the higher planes dont mix well in my opinion but how would you classify him?

how come you always look so damn cool in every photo I see you in?!?


Speaking of modding, I listened to IER 3 yesterday, so you can have another quote for your signature: how come you sound so damn cool, as well as look it? It's unfair. Seriously.


Still a cyberjock, still hacking the matrix, still unsure of what that means.

TeamBG member - http://www.teambg.eu

#8 dorotea

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 06:34 PM

I forgot about that...!
A continuation of the alignment based theme is in order if you are considering an expansion. neutral or Good only in my opinion.


Oh, that's for sure - and I am going to keep or even make more severe the intelligence/wisdom limits. I am all for role-playing this. There is no way I am going to hand Jonny over to an evil protagonist or the one with no brains/wisdom. After all the whole Redemption business is about forgiveness, and I cannot see an 'evil' pc going for it. I said it from the start - having Jon in the party is not about the 'power play' and having another super-powerful wizard npc to play with. It is about the story behind the SoA main plot and trying to twist it in yet another direction without loosing the spirit of the game.

This has possibilites but the levelling up issue would also be a problem as well as getting the fate spirit to summon him as well. Undead and the higher planes dont mix well in my opinion but how would you classify him?


If/when I am going to write this he is not to be summoned by the spirits. I am thinking about writing additional scenes. Firstly - extended dialog with Ellesime who shall accompany you to the Spirit Grove and if you are smart and kindhearted in that conversation she will warn you about Illasera and give you a personal item of Jon's, that was found on his body. Perhaps even his mask.

Now if you have it with you upon arriving in your pocket plane the Solar should be able to show you Jon in Hell. I am thinking about writing a scene in the scrying pool - one that happened before Illasera arrived at the Elders Grove - with a 'masked figure' who is bargaining with Jonny and trying to find your whereabouts. Etc etc. You then will be given a chance to talk with him and convince him to join you rather then the 'masked person'. B)

The rest will be mostly in-party conversations and the scene after the Bhaalist temple and Gorion's ghost. I am also thinking about additional twist with Demogorgon if Jon is in the party.

Jon will be his 9 level - same as after end of SoA. And masked/soulless. The ending will be as per Redemption, except I will have to re-write the Melissan dialogs. If you fail to get him you will be given another chance - in the final ToB confrontation. If you get him and kick him out of the party - he will go back to Hell and at the final scene will attack without a conversation.

So, what do you think? ;)

Freedom cannot be equated with goodness, virtue, or perfection. Freedom has its own unique self-contained nature; freedom is freedom ? not universal goodness. Any confusion or deliberate equalization of freedom with goodness and excellence is in itself negation of freedom, and acceptance of the path of restraint and enforcement.

Nikolai Berdyaev - Christian Existentialist, Philosopher of Freedom.


The Longer Road mod
Redemption mod
Bitter Grey Ashes


#9 Caedwyr

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 07:40 PM

Sounds good. You'll probably want to address the problem of leaving the pocket plane without a soul, as the way it is right now makes it sound like Jon is soulless. I'm also in favour of very strong int/wis/alignment restrictions, as a 3int chaotic evil PC should even consider sparing a weak Joneleth, let alone redeeming him.
"Knowledge is Power. Power Corrupts. Study Hard. Be Evil." - Ferret

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#10 dorotea

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 09:48 PM

You'll probably want to address the problem of leaving the pocket plane without a soul, as the way it is right now makes it sound like Jon is soulless.


It is an intersting topic, indeed. As of now it defies logic how Jon even 'survived' the final death in Hell and was pulled by the demons into the Abyss to be happily tortured forever. Technically, he should have died the 'true death' - ie simply seized to exist as an entity, dissolving into nothing as you took away your soul from him. But it did not happen, (which is why I wrote that line in the Redemption dialogs - 'yet you persist'.) I assume he still has some 'remains' of his elven soul, that is holding his essence together. Chuckle.

Now, if you are thinking Sarevok - it is a different issue. Sarry should have a 'full' soul minus the Bhaal essence of course. And he asked for a spark of your essense to be able to leave and get a 'material' body. But he does not need soul I think.

I sort of do not want to go on the same track with Jon, so I am going to assume that he can leave the Pocket plane (and thus the Abyss) but 'only' if you bargain for him with demons and in your presence. Since you've shared a soul he can still feel it in you. Why not make it that he has a link to it and thus will be totally dependant on your goodwill and physical presence on the Material Plane. I am also going to use a magic item - in this case his old mask that Ellesime will give to you. It maybe enchanted by her so it will now hold some of his old memories and help him to maintain his physical form. I am not sure about that one ... any ideas?

Freedom cannot be equated with goodness, virtue, or perfection. Freedom has its own unique self-contained nature; freedom is freedom ? not universal goodness. Any confusion or deliberate equalization of freedom with goodness and excellence is in itself negation of freedom, and acceptance of the path of restraint and enforcement.

Nikolai Berdyaev - Christian Existentialist, Philosopher of Freedom.


The Longer Road mod
Redemption mod
Bitter Grey Ashes


#11 Caedwyr

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 09:58 PM

But it did not happen, (which is why I wrote that line in the Redemption dialogs - 'yet you persist'.) I assume he still has some 'remains' of his elven soul, that is holding his essence together. Chuckle.


This makes sense. It'd be better to go this way than the Saverok 'borrowing some of your soul' way. There is also the question, of what the elven gods did with Joneleth's original soul. A soulless Jon shouldn't even appear in the hell he shows up in the SOA ending movie. It could be that when he dies they send his old elven soul to the hell.
"Knowledge is Power. Power Corrupts. Study Hard. Be Evil." - Ferret

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#12 -Sim-

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Posted 26 March 2003 - 12:55 AM

And honestly think that it is a risky business to try combine TBG mods with WEIDU ones.

Generally, I don't believe it to be any more risky to combine non-WeiDU mods with WeiDU mods so long as you get the installation order right. I actually asked a while ago in chat just to confirm (because I've heard similar statements elsewhere), and there's no technical reason for the risk to be any greater, as far as I gathered.
Obviously, if TDD does funny things to they KEY file, that's an exception. However, I know nothing about that.

#13 -stormbringer-

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Posted 26 March 2003 - 12:45 PM

As far as if its more iffy to add weidu and non weidu mods together .....my personnel experience is this ....Ive had Tdd and many weidu mods together and sos with weidu mods together and Ive honestly never had problems ...I simply read up on the forums, download updates and or patches, and keep abreast of any late discussions on varios potential probs and make my own judgements on what i wish to use and not use.....after all the bottom line is this with any game be it a mod or the original game itself...its a program on a machine sometimes things screwup sometimes they dont ...people should be very grateful in any instance that someone took the time to try and make a game mod at all and then ......lets be honest......take the necessary time after its released to the public to listen to the gripes and complaints that this isnt working or that isnt working when most of the time the creators are busting butt to fix things themselves ....and there are others who are fixing other peoples probs because theyve ran out of time themselves............so lets all just smiule and thank a modder today ....because one of these days if its compatible wont be a prob someone will figure that out too (hint- BP).

#14 -jcompton-

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Posted 26 March 2003 - 02:25 PM

And honestly think that it is a risky business to try combine TBG mods with WEIDU ones.

Obviously, if TDD does funny things to they KEY file, that's an exception. However, I know nothing about that.

Yes, I discussed it with the caretaker team and that was the conclusion, that definitely as of 1.0.3 the .key was misreporting SongList.2DA and was pointing WeiDU to the SOA Songlist instead of the TOB variant. Therefore WeiDU would grab the SOA songlist, modify it, and stick it in override, killing TOB music.

#15 -Transcendent One-

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 10:02 AM

yes that is exactly my problem with redemption... is there any way of fixing the song bug?