2 replies to this topic

[evildevil]

Swashbucklers are supposed to be warrior thieves, of such... but seem to have more disadvantages than advantages. (Armor Class bonuses and attack bonuses dont strike me as good enough for a thief who can't backstab). My opinion is adding two small advantages over other thieves. Swashbuckers, in my opinion, should have an innate ability of Use Any Item, of sorts. I think he should be able to use any armor that a fighter can use, but not being able to use his skills in it still. And when high enough in level, I would think a swashbuckler could use some warrior skills. Maybe a new HLA called "Mastery" which either allows him to achieve grand mastery in any melee weapon a thief can normally use or simply be a skill that temporarily grants him grand mastery in the weapon that is currently in his dominate hand. Lasting for, oh say... two rounds. Also, the HLA "Hardiness" might help a Swashbuckler, on account they are more thuggish, IMO. The AC and attack bonus should be negated somewhat later on, however... just wanted to spit out some thoughts.

[Nukenin]

Swashbucklers don't really need any more advantages, IMHO. (It's my class of preference btw.)

They definitely don't need to wear armour heavier than studded leather/hide.

I think, however, a one-time HLA called "Weapon Mastery" that grants them an additional +2 to hit and +2 damage would not be too unbalancing. Replace UAI with that, and replace the Scribe Scroll HLA with an HLA called "Weapon Grandmastery" that adds +1 damage and 1 attack/round.

Replace the Set X Traps HLAs with multi-selectable Offensive Spin, Defensive Spin, and Weapon Display a la the Blade's abilities.

But really, the Swash is fine as is, he gets more than enough cheese with UAI and the Set X Traps HLAs. And his effective THAC0 is in line with a fighter's almost at the high levels.

[aVENGER]

Note that there are two separate versions of th Swashbuckler in 2E AD&D - the thief kit and the fighter kit. These two are noticeably different:

Swashbuckler as Fighter kit:

The Swashbuckler is the sophisticated, witty, lightly armed and armored hero in a sophisticated city-based campaign?a la The Three Musketeers. He's fully capable of putting on heavy armor, picking up a bastard sword, and soldiering alongside other tank warriors?but he shines in comparison when the heroes are adventuring in the city, in light armor and with light weapons.

Swashbuckler as Thief kit:

Part acrobat, part swordsman, part wit, and entirely roguish -this is the Swashbuckler. He is a sophisticated city-dweller, the epitome of charm and graceThis is a happy-go-lucky thief, with ready wit and flashing rapier. His home is the city, where he can shine amidst the squalor. He is generally less interested than his warrior counterpart in poking people with his rapier, and is more involved and concerned with his wild theatrics and amazing displays of acrobatic skills. More often than not he also finds himself, justly or not, on the wrong side of the law.

As a thief kit, I consider the Swashbuckler to be fairly powerful on his own, perhaps even more so than the other thief kits. His AC and Thac0 bonuses quickly pile up once you raise in levels and you get a formidable fighting character at lvl 20+ or so. He may also pick the Whirlwind HLA which makes him stand out even more.

In short, I'm sorry but I personally don't consider the Swashbuckler (as a thief kit) in need of improvement. However, a separate fighter version of this kit could be interesting and has potential, but I don't wont to get into that realm, I'd rather stick with rogues.