10 replies to this topic

[Seifer]

Since playing the original redemption mod and being highly impressed I wsa wondering on one factor.

Since Jon is of evil alignment and you plan to add a romance and/or a quest does this mean that the evident leaning towards good folk will be looked at somewhat? (I know I ramble about this all the time but...)will there be a delineation of sorts, even a small one?

Most people might power through the TOB section of game, which to a degree will cancel out a lot of the work whereas this project might address that. Look how many people missed getting Sarevok as CG before accension enforced it through plot.

[dorotea]

Since Jon is of evil alignment and you plan to add a romance and/or a quest does this mean that the evident leaning towards good folk will be looked at somewhat? (I know I ramble about this all the time but...)will there be a delineation of sorts, even a small one?

Hmm. Since I am not on the Forgotten Wars Forums all that often ( mea culpa - I *am* seriously busy with all the writing and full time job) I had not seen your ramblings before. Therefore you have a perfect audience, fresh and unspoilt. Can you please formulate the question again? Do you approve of leaning towards the 'good' alignment or dissaprove? And what was that about 'delineation'? You mean if the Longer Road will be leaning toward 'good' alignment and if 'yes' how do I feel about it?

[Seifer]

IMO the tag of 'RPG can't really be applied to TOB as you only get the chance to play on a nice moral ethical route, enhanced further by most of the mods released thus far. this is the aspect of the game being totally lineated towards good guys. I mean, I usually play as a paladin but would like to explore an evil element in the game section as well as TOB. Its a leaning I dont actually like!

TOB presents the chance to turn two evil characters into good ones which I think is a travesty but reinforces the point of avoiding evilness. Dropping Jon into this might be limiting what he can actually do. I'm suggesting altering points of the game around his inclusion that will cater for his ego and his evilness.

[dorotea]

TOB presents the chance to turn two evil characters into good ones which I think is a travesty but reinforces the point of avoiding evilness.

Chortle. Would you rather play a game that will force you to slaughter children to finishn the plot? Face it - evil is usually is quite boring or comical. When I write my Bodhi scenes with Kiaransalee and Lloth I try to make them extremely funny otherwise I start to yawn even as I write. I prefer to delineate between Lawful and Chaotic, assuming that there is a sparkle of good hidden in almost everybody (except obviously the demonic types).

But I will have an evil path for the Longer Road - it will obviously end up differently, and no romance for that part.

Dropping Jon into this might be limiting what he can actually do. I'm suggesting altering points of the game around his inclusion that will cater for his ego and his evilness.

Why is everybody so annoyed about not being able to show off in all their evil glory? Do you really want a quest on collecting say small children's ears? Or raping elven refugee maidens in Saradush? I don't expect the evil folk to like my mods and don't care for their tastes, same as I would never care to write Bodhi's romance. It is simply out of my league.

But I may write a lot of Abyssal fun scenes with demons playing riddles and drinking ale just for the heck of it.

As for catering for Jon evilness - he would be the one to cater for your ego not the other way around. He is much older and smarter than your 20 year old self. He may get a chance to finally work on you closely and simply overwhelm you with his personality. That is how you will fail - he will drag you down with him, not the other way around. Would you like to play something like this?

[Mikka]

As for catering for Jon evilness - he would be the one to cater for your ego not the other way around. He is much older and smarter than your 20 year old self. He may get a chance to finally work on you closely and simply overwhelm you with his personality. That is how you will fail - he will drag you down with him, not the other way around. Would you like to play something like this?

Am I alone in saying "YES!"?

I tend to lean to neutral characters, myself- my favorites are chaotic neutral who do what they feel is right; of course, their right is different then socities right. One of my main D&D characters believes in absolute freedom- and that means whether your a paladin slave to the drow, or a murderer rightfully put in prison, she would still do whatever she could to get you out of such situation. But besides that, evil doesn't have to mean 'brutal'.


There's a lot of different forms of evil out there. In the game, why can't you go to Mae-Var, and tell him Edwin gave you the key to his storage, and that Renal is looking to off him? And then be sent to go take care of Renal for him? And then do a few more quests for him, rise up to his loyal ranks, and then take him out in the back and run the guildhouse yourself? Or why can't you help the Fallen Paladin's get their revenge against the Order's paladins, getting a few to travel in your party with helms down, and then going back to the Order's headquarters, and causing mass chaos? Or after helping Trademeet with all their problems, getting the citizen's to ouast what's his face the mayor and put you in charge?

Maybe a PC thinks that they want to help Jonalath with his soul, but don't want him to end up like the Queen and all her group (who are not exactly the most friendly to the PC's, even with all they do for them). Maybe the PC thinks that it's not fair for them to reform Jon, and that he should be allowed to experience every situation, and decide what to do from there- IE, helping old grannies cross the street and then having him kill a body just a minute later- so he can see and feel all emotions in life, and decide which path he wants to follow himself. Or... oh, pooey.


What I was trying to say, is often times evil doesn't realize it's evil. Tons of people have ended up evil because of good intentions. Torturing a prisoner to gain information on where hostages are kept is for the greater good, right? But it still requires a powers check- no, wait, never mind. Err, it's still considered an evil act to willingly try and force someone to suffer to exchange knowledge. Someone might think someone needs to relax more, and tries to get them to relax during sex- unfortuantely, that person happens to have a significant other, and now has ruined their marriage bond because of that someone. Someone wants to cure a fatal disease of someone they love- and they make a deal with the baatezu. Definately an evil act- but it was for the right reasons, to that person.

There's some people that are evil because theyr'e just mean, selfish, cruel brutes. And there are some people that are evil because of how things turned out. And... yeah.

Why did I even post this?

Err... yeah. I am looking forward to this module, anyway. =) Jon's a character that I can't make up my mind about- I'm not sure if I like him or dislike him, and that's very rare for me. Ah, well. =)

[Seifer]

My point exactly!

In regards to the paladin thing Mikka, I'll be addressiing that eventually but the evil doens't lead to raping and killing all year round.

In regards to the personality thing, I look foward to seeing the two mentally joust especially if the player is a wizard!

[wizard of thay]

As you know I do love the idea of this mod. however I (as always) worry and moan. The redemption of irenicus has to be believable, and it would seem to be difficult to get past the enemity that he has for you,
you know he might be a little bit annoyed with you... something to do with you preventing his ascention to godhood, stopping him from retrieving his soul, killing his sister (vampire or not) and then finally killing him not once but twice, and condemning him to hell by doing so (some people eh moan moan moan?)
I am going to be intriguied to see how you manage to turn this into a workable relationship. and I feel that there is a lot of bile and venom waiting for Irenicus to work out. Especially since a cunning villian like Jon Jon would have studied you and your party during your adventures and would surely try to lash out and hurt others in his weakend state.
Irenicus: ~ Jahiera, my girl, would you like me to hear your darling Khalids final screams. I actually recorded them...I found them...soothing. ~
secondly given that even with a soul he was willing to destroy the tree of life and strike out against his own people can he be trusted, what hold would the P.C have over Jon to control him, would it be another Geas a la Sarevok?
I am also worried by the fact that he can become a full time NPC, who in the party would work with him, most of the good characters would turn against you for releasing him. I mean I had trouble buying Jaheira letting Sarevok into the party and he only killed Gorion.
I feel that Irenicus should be contained within the stronghold and the friendship be conducted out of party, and if he is to leave the sphere it is via a special ability (summon Irenicus?)
Basically I liked Irenicus as evil, and feel that that needs to be explored and feel that a relationship as a full time npc would be difficult, but then again if anyone can do it you can.

[Slumlord]

I am also worried by the fact that he can become a full time NPC, who in the party would work with him, most of the good characters would turn against you for releasing him. I mean I had trouble buying Jaheira letting Sarevok into the party and he only killed Gorion.

Or how about Irenicus and Imoen in the same party? You think she'll go for it?

I'm interested to see how Jon Bon will be written back into the game so soon after he did a cannonball into a scalding lake of lava at the end of Shadows of Amn.

[dorotea]

Or how about Irenicus and Imoen in the same party? You think she'll go for it?

Check up Littiz post in the pinned thread - also, I am going to write in a conflict with Imoen, Jaheira and maybe Minsc.

There's some people that are evil because theyr'e just mean, selfish, cruel brutes. And there are some people that are evil because of how things turned out. And... yeah.

Why did I even post this?

Err... yeah. I am looking forward to this module, anyway. =) Jon's a character that I can't make up my mind about- I'm not sure if I like him or dislike him, and that's very rare for me. Ah, well. =)

I definitely hope I can answer this in the mod. I have a very complicated branching in mind with several independent paths for different alignments.

To answer Seifer yet again - Don't worry, The LR is not going to be solely for 'good- neutral' alignment, but the evil people better be wary of Jon. He is not easily subdued.

As you know I do love the idea of this mod. however I (as always) worry and moan. The redemption of irenicus has to be believable, and it would seem to be difficult to get past the enemity that he has for you,
you know he might be a little bit annoyed with you... something to do with you preventing his ascention to godhood, stopping him from retrieving his soul, killing his sister (vampire or not) and then finally killing him not once but twice, and condemning him to hell by doing so (some people eh moan moan moan?)

Oh, Jon is going to be very mad at you and he will not join you to be 'redeemed' for sure. But I am not going to disclose my plans as of yet. rest assured though - it is going to be a struggle and his redemption is only one of several possible outcomes. I hope my worst case scenario will leave you guys reasonably shaken.

I also plan a serious set of conflicts with various party memebers - especially the three original npcs - Jaheira, Minsc and Imoen.

I am not that sure about Sarevok, but I have a feeling these two would not like each other much.

[dorotea]

I encourage you to use most of your energy toward the G/N 'redemption' branch, since it is obviously the one that intrigues you the most.

Personally I also like that idea much more, but that is of course just one person's preference.

Oh, I will , but the evil part of the plot is soo delicious. Giggle.