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Online Area Making Seminar


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#1 Cuv

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 06:31 AM

Hello all

Not sure where else to put this, but this forum seemed the best to ask this question of anyone interested. Once there is proved to be an interest, then maybe a thread in the Tutorials section or something.

Would there be an interest in an online Area Making class (taught by me) here at SHS?

The format would be to all get online on ... I don't know... maybe MSN, and work through making an area together that is fully functional in BG2 using IETME?

I know alot of people are switching to DLTCEP, but honestly I cannot make heads nor tails of making an area with it. I 'can' make areas that aren't buggy with IETME... if you know where the pitfalls are in the program. I also see that alot more people are interested in making the maps, but I don't see anyone making them into areas (but me :) lol ). Just thought that I could pass along some knowledge while I am still around here.

Requirements:
-IEMTE 2.2
-Near Infinity
-Photoshop (or another paint program that lets you do layers)
-Infinity Exporer helpful

So then, anyone interested?

Cuv

Edited by Cuv, 22 May 2007 - 06:31 AM.


#2 berelinde

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 06:32 AM

Wow, what a great idea!

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#3 Kaeloree

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 06:41 AM

I certainly would! :)

#4 Dirt_Squirrel

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 06:41 AM

I must admit that I definetly am interested in this! My only concerns are of time restraints and of getting a paint program that lets me do layers. As of right now, all I have available to me is Microsoft Paint....

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#5 the bigg

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 09:16 AM

I must admit that I definetly am interested in this! My only concerns are of time restraints and of getting a paint program that lets me do layers. As of right now, all I have available to me is Microsoft Paint....

The Gimp is free (both as in beer and as in speech) and can do layers just fine.

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#6 Cuv

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 09:19 AM

Okay, good... some interest :)

As for the paint program needing layers... that is really only for making the door bitmaps, I suppose we could skip that in the beginning as that is a more advanced part of making an area (but necessary IMHO). I want to teach everything, even beyond just areas... making creatures, bams, adding sound files, making items and spells, scripting. It all comes together when making an area. You make your area, and then find you need things to enhance it.

What I was thinking is to get online together and just start converting a map into an area and see where that takes us. Perhaps someone (besides myself) could supply us with a map that is rather simple and small. No more than two rooms and no complex wall possibilites... preferably either a small interior area or a small outdoor area. That way we are all working from the same area map... and one that I am not familiar with so I will have to think a bit as we go. Maybe even a Layers of Reality Challenge????

The students can then ask any questions they wish as we go along (keeping it on-subject hopefully), as we put it together and make it into a .ARE. Making the tileset, search maps, making and adding doors, putting in the walls, containers, traps, triggers, ambient sounds, animations and actors. Then each person can post their screenshots of the working area.

I can see this taking several sessions, but that is okay with me. Time is certainly an issue with many people (including myself), but I bet once we figure out who wants to do it, we can arrange for a time to get online. Maybe even in two seperate groups.

Maybe someone could also sit in and just take notes for a tutorial too? How it is done from beginning to end. If more people knew how to make areas, I bet the modding scene would really take off. That would help all the people with great ideas for quests and TC's that never get very far because they can't get everything they want into the game.

I know there are kinds of conferencing programs out there... and I even remember seeing one (can't remember when or where) that allows people who join in to see the desktop comp screen of the person giving the seminar. Anyone know what that is or where I could find that? It sure would make teaching alot easier if other people could see exactly what I was doing as I do it... and then ask questions and I could explain 'why'.

Anyway, feel free to discuss this and come up with a plan. I am available odd hours. I work nights, and have tons of free time on my nights off. I live in California and my time zone is PST.

Cuv

#7 Rabain

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 11:28 AM

What about making a really small area (random encounter size) that has a door of some sort and recording your actions while creating it?

There are plenty of free programs that will record your desktop actions into a flash file or avi. You could even add commentary!

Or make several recordings of different aspects of creation.

Either way tutorials are good, i am lazy with doors.
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#8 Azkyroth

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 02:47 PM

I'm interested, and also suspect this would fit better somewhere in the IE tutorials section. If there are no objections I'll move it shortly.

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#9 berelinde

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 05:33 PM

What about making a really small area (random encounter size) that has a door of some sort and recording your actions while creating it?

There are plenty of free programs that will record your desktop actions into a flash file or avi. You could even add commentary!


I was going to suggest this very thing.

The advantage to this would be that anyone in any time zone could view it whenever they liked, as many times as they liked. The drawback would be that there would be no opportunity to ask questions in real time.

Doing it both ways would be the best possible solution, but I fully respect that your time is limited.

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#10 cmorgan

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 05:52 PM

I would love an opportunity like this - but I also understand that this is a global community; I am not sure everyone interested can actually conference in real-time. So how about a variant using both online models, like the Austrailians do with some of their distance learning classes? Do a demo up to a small point, post it, gather questions, then try a real time sesion, then move on to the next stage?
/edit: duh - should have read berelinde's post --- sorry -- I agree with her.

Edited by cmorgan, 22 May 2007 - 05:53 PM.


#11 Kulyok

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 10:31 PM

I'd agree that discussing it in a forum thread is a better idea, since, for one, people will be able to benefit from it weeks and months later - if it doesn't get deleted, of course. In real time, there are time zones, and most of all, new knowledge takes some time to sink in - I know it took me a short while with every IE-related program(in fact, I have learnt how to properly add .tra lines to an already traified file without extra effort only yesterday).

#12 Cuv

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 04:40 AM

I'm interested, and also suspect this would fit better somewhere in the IE tutorials section. If there are no objections I'll move it shortly.


No problem Azkyroth, but I hope people still see it here. If I am going to do this, I want the widest range of folks seeing it who might be interested. I don't want someone to say later, "I never saw this!" Once we agree on a format and relative time schedule, I would like this announced in the News please :cheers:

The ideas sound good. Maybe a smaller 'getting started group' first, document how everything was accomplished, then open a thread for questions. I'll answer the questions best I can, then we can move on to the next phase. Anyone who missed out on the first group can still be up-to-date by reading and working through the tutorial on phase 1.

Here's how I see it broken down:

1. Making your map into a basic useable area
*I know this sounds simple, but you would be suprised at the amount of little things that go into making an raw area. I can already see alot of questions coming up; How do I know how many pixels high and wide is my map? How do I save it? How do I even use IETME? Etc. So I see #1 as an introduction to the tools needed... and we can make a raw area that we can check out in the game.

2. Auxillary maps and cutting out your door
*This is a very time consuming part of area making. If your Search Map is not correct, your game will crash. I normally would save the search map for nearly last, but using a small area should make this doable early. Also, cutting out the door bitmap and editing it in a paint program is tedious. We will need an Open and Closed version of the area map. We will NOT be adding the door at this phase unless there is time.

3. Doors
*This is where we will add the door to the area and make sure everything is working good. We will also create a WeiDU installer for our area and learn to make backups. We will TIZ the area after the door is in place and no further work will be done on the tileset.

4. Animations and Ambients
*This is where we will add torches or candles lights, or anything else I fancy at the moment to be a good learning tool. We will also set ambient sounds for the area; both the regular area sounds and the circular ambient placeables.

5. Walls
*This is not going to be fun, but it will surely be interesting. A whole session dedicated to adding the walls. Here's why; adding the walls is easy, but do they actually work the way they are supposed to? Probably not. Are our animations visible through the walls, but the player is hidden? There are a whole bunch of oddball flags that will need to be checked and rechecked on each wall polygon. If the area is simple enough, we can learn other things too in this session.

6. Flags, Containers, Triggers and Traps
*In this session we will learn about area flags and set them correctly, we will add our travel containers, triggers, traps, info triggers, spawn points, waypoints, and whatever else I am forgetting at the moment related to these. I will also give an intro to the scripts needed to run these additions. We will be working heavily with NI in this phase.

7. Actors and scripting
*We will create some actors to populate our little area. Write some scripts for simple actions and scripted movement. Create a simple store perhaps, etc. We will also write scripts for our traps, proximaty triggers and containers. Not that they are always needed, but a good introduction to usage.

Then everyone can post their screenshots of their finished area.

I will also attach here a basic guide that I have been sending people who ask about area making. What I do and in what order and why.

Attached File  making_areas.txt   6.06K   395 downloads

How does that sound?

Cuv

#13 minotaur_in_maze

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 06:35 AM

I for one would LOVE it, if a time could be worked out.

As we are all over the world, might be a prob.

Back when Infinity Engine Radio (Whatever happened to that? It came and went faster than Bruce Willis's singing career) was around I suggest a sort of MP3 how to session.

I also suggested that it might be worth considering for someone to make an MPEG on how to mod (Seeing as how many learn from example) for others to DL. - I was shot down of course, but still...

Would love to get in on this.

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#14 Cuv

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 07:34 AM

I for one would LOVE it, if a time could be worked out.


I'm sure we can work out something on the times. As I said, I work nights, so on my 'day's off'... it's night here. That would make it Day elsewhere around the world (I would think :P).

I also suggested that it might be worth considering for someone to make an MPEG on how to mod (Seeing as how many learn from example) for others to DL. - I was shot down of course, but still...

Would love to get in on this.

Minotaur


Another good idea. AVI or MPEG. Maybe some detail minded individual would like to sit in and take the notes too and maybe record? I might be able to do it... keep notes as we go and then post the tutorial of what was accomplished, but it would be easier for me to concentrate on the teaching.

Good! That is at least 6 people already interested.

What does everyone think of the format I listed?

Also need suggestions on a good conferencing method. Does MSN have conferencing? I want to make sure that everyone can see all the questions asked and all the answers.

Cuv

#15 Thauron

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 12:18 PM

Great idea,

Although I crafted some areas for my own mod I am sure I could learn more than a thing or two from you.
Consider me in - though my amount of free time somehow seems to dwindle with every passing week.

#16 Zyraen

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 07:09 PM

I would love to , but my free time is limited plus my timezone is different from most of yours.
Would prefer a tutorial for these (my own selfish) reasons ;)

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#17 Azkyroth

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 08:24 PM

I'd agree that discussing it in a forum thread is a better idea, since, for one, people will be able to benefit from it weeks and months later - if it doesn't get deleted, of course.


It won't.

No problem Azkyroth, but I hope people still see it here. If I am going to do this, I want the widest range of folks seeing it who might be interested. I don't want someone to say later, "I never saw this!" Once we agree on a format and relative time schedule, I would like this announced in the News please :cheers:


I'll leave the "moved topic" link for a week or so, just in case (though we are trying to minimize the cluttering those cause, now) and talk to Kae or SConrad about the News (not sure I have access at my level; never really thought about it, actually).

And I'll absorb the rest of what's been posted since I last visited later. Demonfuzzy need seep. ^.^

"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard


#18 Tassadar88

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 11:03 PM

As I said, I¨m on it as well. I can do anything overnight (GMT+1) and I believe that most of us should be able to reserve some time during weekends?
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#19 Cuv

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 05:46 AM

I'll leave the "moved topic" link for a week or so, just in case (though we are trying to minimize the cluttering those cause, now) and talk to Kae or SConrad about the News (not sure I have access at my level; never really thought about it, actually).


Kae has already contacted me and offered to post about it in the news when we get everything worked out. Thank you Azkyroth :)

Excellent everyone!!!

Perhaps we should start a list of people interested?

And, shall we try to figure out a time to get this started?

My days off vary from week to week, but I am generall free at least one weekend night per week. And I am awake during the wee hours of the am (PST). So basically I am available to give the class sometime between the hours of 5pm to 10am Pacific Standard Time. How does that fit with those interested?

Cuv

Edited by Cuv, 24 May 2007 - 05:48 AM.


#20 Deathsangel

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 07:32 AM

oh, interested. HERD made some nice ones, but I need to learn how to code up. So, I would like to be in on that part of the class.
Pacific Standard Time... how much does that differ from the 0-line (Greenwhich time?)

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