25 replies to this topic

[Solar's Harper]

Ok back On Topic people, I'm sure this discussion can be taken to another thread.

And just so you know Castor, my second fact was more of a joke than a fact.
Just part of my nature.

[berelinde]

First of all, yes, there is a Play by Post campaign titled the Candlekeep Company, and yes it is exclusive to staff. However, while it is open to all interested forum staff, only a small number of staff have chosen to participate. There is no limit on the number of players per se, but in this PnP DM's opinion, the playing group has largely reached a critical mass of players/characters, so to speak. One player has dropped out, assigning control and playing of his character to another individual, and the CC DM has largely stopped playing his own character due to the demands of DM'ing the campaign.

Thank you for clarifying this point.

I do apologize for feeling the need to point out a slight flaw in what you said. The campaign is open to all staff members, of which only a small number have chosen to participate--then you say that the playing group has reached a critical mass of players. Is those two statements contradictory? What would happen, for instance, should a non-playing staff member ask to be involved in the role-playing sessions?

Perhaps that could have been worded a little better. When Candlekeep Company was set up, the idea was for staff to come and go when time and leisure allowed it. So, anybody was free to roll up a character and sign up. If the group got too big, there was talk of splitting it into two groups. So far, the composition has been pretty constant, although individual players have taken breaks from it from time to time when RL responsibilities, deadlines, or workload demanded that they spend more time on other matters.

The group is rather large. Somehow, the current DM manages to keep track of what everyone is doing, but I am not certain how many more players, if any, could join before he became overwhelmed. If a staff member wanted to join, it would be up to the DM to decide whether he could handle one more player.

So, in an attempt to clarify what Tempest said, when the game was formed, it was open to all staff. Should a non-playing staff member want to join the campaign, that would be up to the DM to decide if there was room for one more. Now that the DM has had some time to evaluate the challenges of moderating such a large group of players, he might have a better understanding of how many could be accommodated than at the outset.

Yes, perhaps talking openly about the characters and situations wasn't necessarily the best idea. And the fact that Ilmatar has produced some lovely art on the subject has probably only fueled interest.

But there is absolutely no reason a new campaign couldn't be even more interesting and engaging, after the characters have had a chance to develop a bit. What makes Candlekeep Company, and some of the other PbP campaigns appealing is that they are already underway, and the characters are already doing things and interacting with each other. This does take a little bit of time. Chapter 2 is usually a better read than Chapter 1.

I still feel slightly apprehensive towards the wide-spread flaunting of the campaign, however. People who play enjoy playing video games always have the ability to procuring a specific game, in order to be able to discuss it, while in this case, none of us outside the staff are allowed entry. Do you not think it slightly insensitive and nonchalant to wave this fact in front of our faces?

I have said before that I do not deny you the right to play this campaign, but perhaps it would be wise to not gasconade it, and instead keep it as it was meant to be--private?

You're absolutely right.

Thanks for speaking your mind.

[Ilmatar]

Split this from another topic and moved to the Delusions of the Mind. Good discussing, peeps.

Edited by Ilmatar, 12 September 2007 - 08:11 PM.

[Castor]

I personally did not and do not feel this a significant incident, but your rights are indeed yours, and so I am answering you to the best of my ability.

Thank you, Tempest. I fully appreciate your efforts, and they have been most fruitful so far. You have my gratitude for solving this problem quickly and without any casualties along the way.

Your concerns are certainly valid, and when we saw this turning into a major issue, we [the players mainly, but the staff as a whole] quickly and have already reached an internal consensus to keep a tight lid on this. I, for one, did not realize our talking alienated people, and as I have stated, this is my own fault. As a group, we have reached a consensus to avoid talking about the campaign in public threads. Speaking for myself, I never realized the impact talking about it might have/have had on the community as a whole, and I offer my apologies for my carelessness.

[...]

I am aware there have been misunderstandings in this issue, on both sides. I in particular have been careless and didn't think things through all the way. I thank you for bringing this to our attention-it would never have occured to me, for one, that we were alienating or offending anyone by our words and actions, and am glad you brought it up directly so we could deal with an issue we might never have seen otherwise.

Again, thank you. This clarification and assurance of improvement in the future was all I was aiming for. I hope everyone feels as if the Candlekeep Company issue has been solved.

That's something you'll have to ask Ilmatar herself about, but my personal opinion on the subject is that Ilmatar should be free to explain the context of any artwork she makes if she so chooses. I believe the concerns here are better answered in my paragraph above.

I still would appreciate the continuation of the artwork in this thread, but as stated previously, the real origins could be less obvious. However, I respect your opinion on the matter as well, and maybe we can agree to disagree? In any case, it is out of our hands--we can do no more than to suggest. You are right--no one but Ilmatar would be able to address this issue.

And if anyone has any questions or concerns about anything that goes on here at SHS, you have every right to ask. You might want to avoid hijacking threads to do so in the future, however.

Thank you.

I humbly apologize for hijacking the thread. As you might remember, I apologized for doing this in my first post in the thread (first paragraph), and politely suggested it to be split (also first paragraph) out of consideration for the original topic. I was not aware that members such as myself could perform such an undertaking--I do not see an option anywhere, so if you could direct me to the function, I would appreciate it.

If I do not have any ability to do so myself, then I feel your comment is slightly unjustified. It was not my intention to drive the thread further off-topic and offered a solution, which in this case has been ignored. It is my belief that blaming me for an issue I cannot solve--but attempted to by proposing a course of action--is not particularly fair.

(When previewing my post, I saw that Ilmatar had split the topic. Thank you.)

Perhaps that could have been worded a little better. When Candlekeep Company was set up, the idea was for staff to come and go when time and leisure allowed it. So, anybody was free to roll up a character and sign up. If the group got too big, there was talk of splitting it into two groups. So far, the composition has been pretty constant, although individual players have taken breaks from it from time to time when RL responsibilities, deadlines, or workload demanded that they spend more time on other matters.

The group is rather large. Somehow, the current DM manages to keep track of what everyone is doing, but I am not certain how many more players, if any, could join before he became overwhelmed. If a staff member wanted to join, it would be up to the DM to decide whether he could handle one more player.

So, in an attempt to clarify what Tempest said, when the game was formed, it was open to all staff. Should a non-playing staff member want to join the campaign, that would be up to the DM to decide if there was room for one more. Now that the DM has had some time to evaluate the challenges of moderating such a large group of players, he might have a better understanding of how many could be accommodated than at the outset.

Yes, perhaps talking openly about the characters and situations wasn't necessarily the best idea. And the fact that Ilmatar has produced some lovely art on the subject has probably only fueled interest.

But there is absolutely no reason a new campaign couldn't be even more interesting and engaging, after the characters have had a chance to develop a bit. What makes Candlekeep Company, and some of the other PbP campaigns appealing is that they are already underway, and the characters are already doing things and interacting with each other. This does take a little bit of time. Chapter 2 is usually a better read than Chapter 1.

Thank you very much for clarifying this, berelinde. It does indeed make a lot of sense. I truly value the fact that you are listening to my concerns and even more so that you appear to be rectifying the problem.

You're absolutely right.

Thanks for speaking your mind.

Thank you once again. May I, however, trouble you with a response to my previous point, which is still causing some distress? In order to find what I am referring to, I would like to direct you to the last paragraph before the last quote in my post prior to this one. The paragraph in question starts with the sentence "In light of what you quoted, I would like to to clarify what I meant."

Thank you for listening to my opinions,

Castor

[berelinde]

In light of what you quoted, I would like to to clarify what I meant. The discussion, up to that point, seems to have been about a private and exclusive Play-by-Post campaign in which only Spellhold Studios staff is allowed to participate. In adding to that discussion, what berelinde--who is a Coordinator, which I perceive to be a senior staff position--effectively expressed was how difficult it is to initiate a Play-by-Post campaign. I found that statement extremely concerning, since berelinde's post could, in context of the other replies, be interpreted as haughtiness and further nose-rubbing by insinuating that "it's very difficult to start a Play-by-Post campaign, but we are alright, because we have one exclusively for the staff!" I highly doubt that is how berelinde intended it, but it is how it came across, and I view it as far beneath the position berelinde holds to say anything that could be remotely interpreted as an escalation in the high-handedness in an already sensitive topic. That is what prompted my reply.

Oops! Sorry! That wasn't what I meant, at all!

When I say it's difficult to initiate a PbP, I meant to say that it's challenging for the DM! There are certainly no restrictions based on staff status or anything else to start a campaign, and while I haven't actually consulted K'aeloree about this, I'm sure that if somebody wanted to start one up, he'd be more than happy to hook them up with a forum for it.

By challenging, I meant only that it is a time commitment for the DM, and that it isn't a task to be undertaken lightly. The DM has to develop a campaign setting (Forgotten Realms is convenient, but it doesn't have to be that one), come up with a scenario, recruit players, get everything set up. It's a personal challenge, but I think there are any number of folks here who would be more than up to it. This would be true for a PbP campaign, for a tabletop DnD campaign, or for any other endeavor. It's time well spent. And nobody starting one has to be staff, or hold any particular position here or anywhere else.

And there's no reason that PbP in general has to be restricted to staff! There are 3 campaigns besides Candlekeep Company that contain a mix of staff and members. When I started Whisper Company, I wasn't on staff yet.

I appologize for suggesting that somehow a forum title confers the ability to run or participate in a successful campaign. I don't believe that myself.

It's almost 1 AM, so I'm not quite at my most eloquent, but the value of one's ideas has absolutely nothing to do with the labels that appear under a screen name. I'd love to see gaming flourish, in any form.

[Ilmatar]

Oh, I do agree! Ilmatar is an exceptionally talented artist who deserves all the praise she receives--and she should probably have even more. I also understand that Play-by-Post, as well as any role-playing, can be a stupendous source of inspiration to any artist. I definitely do not want her to cease sharing her artwork with the public, but perhaps the source of the magnificent artwork could be kept somewhat hushed--if only for the sake of it not stirring up debates such as the one we have now?

That's something you'll have to ask Ilmatar herself about, but my personal opinion on the subject is that Ilmatar should be free to explain the context of any artwork she makes if she so chooses. I believe the concerns here are better answered in my paragraph above.

Now that I came home from work and finally had time to read this topic, I'll answer this. When I've posted pictures of our characters and the events of the game, I thought they would work as stand-alone artwork pictures, and I believe I never really explained the resources or the drawings to much depth - exactly for the reasons that have been mentioned in this thread several times. I'm very sorry if the artwork of the campaign has upset some people - I meant no harm, and only wanted to showcase my drawings to get general feedback and suggestions to improve myself.

I can keep the campaign artwork private if some consider it even a little offensive, but I repeat - I've only posted them to get constructive criticism and to showcase my art, not to parade our campaign.

I'm glad to see that the questions have been answered and that there has been some good discussing about the matter. I want to say on my part too that I'm very sorry of the confusion and upsetting this might have caused, but I hope that everything is settled now.