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Current thoughts on NWN2:MotB


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#1 Kellen

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 01:08 PM

Mine thoughts are sitting at, I like the Spirit Shaman. A lot. I made a few test characters to check out some new races/classes. I've decided that I like the Spirit Shaman, now however I need an actual character with personality before I start. That's proving a lot more difficult.(Even race is putting up a fight...)

Other than that, with all the spirits of Rasheman the SS fits well. The story starts out pretty well, and I'm liking the areas. Now if only I could get a full go character to go through it.

Anyways, what are your thoughts so far? Much better? So-so? Pathetic?
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#2 Rastor

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 04:17 PM

Posted these a week ago:

http://forums.rpgdun...g16070.html#new
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#3 Kellen

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:03 PM

Saw that. And so I'm looking forward even more to getting back to it. But I just can't seem to decide who or what I want to do.
"She could resist temptation. Really she could. Sometimes. At least when it wasn't tempting." - Calli Slythistle
"She was a fire, and I had no doubt that she had already done her share of burning." - Lord Firael Algathrin
"Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." - Tanek of Cloakwood

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#4 Darziak

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 06:43 AM

Well I was just finishing the main OC when Motb arrived and only just finished that last night (in two days). With my paladin char I got through the game pretty smoothly but there were times where it was epic, the red wizards fighter gnolls(?) were the hardest for me. I like the genasi races especially the water and air, I'm not sure which class to choose if I go though the game again.

I'm glad the companions are very talkative but I wish I could bring everyone with me and not miss any conversations. I was just happy that I got to find out what happend to my old companions. The music was great but it seems rather buggy when it kept stopping and restarting at the beginning most of the time.

Graphic wise I thought the scenery looked good and full of life compared to the main OC, I had no lag throughout the game though there were some crashes in some battles. The change to the heads looks as though some of them have gone worse, my paladins beard looks rather dull and gray.

#5 Archmage Silver

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 12:58 PM

I've already finished the game, but as for what it was like? In my opinion MotB is excellent, the story is intriguing, the musical score is outright superb and does a wonderful job maintaining the atmosphere of the game.

I had finished the NWN2 original campaign ages ago, and had my Wizard (Yes, can you believe it? I'm so diverse) exported before I installed MotB, so I started with a premade level 20 character with the finest gear the original campaign had the offer. That pretty much settled my character creation, although I did check out the new additions, some of which are pretty interesting.

Graphics have seen some improvements, that I like a lot. (Obviously it's easy to say that with enough hardware to back it up and run the game on full...)

New casting sounds are somewhat worse than the old ones in my opinion, although I eventually got used to them.

I liked the NPCs, more interaction is always good in my book. The voice acting was also a lot better than in some other games I won't mention here.

As it was, I didn't meet the requirements for the new prestige classes, and as I was already level 20 to begin with, I took myself to level 30 as a Wizard. Which, of course, suits me. I did a splendid job with the wizard spell book as well, gathering every spell in the game. Took some help from the infamous Scribe Scroll Feat trick and some NPCs.

I found the battles somewhat easy at normal difficulty, although there were some that took a few tries to best. The fact that I found them easy can probably be accounted for having so many Empowered(Feat) area of effect spells at my disposal. I found Empowered Greater Fireburst particularly delicious for crowded places.

Epic levels are interesting in their own way also, but fortunately the story was "epic" as well, so there wasn't really too much focus on just the game mechanics like in Hordes of the Underdark back in NWN1.

All in all, excellent game, and I really appreciated the tie-in to the original campaign, so you actually felt like this was the same character you were playing in the OC.

Story: 10/10 - This wasn't about saving the world again, but yourself. A lot more interesting than saving the world.
Graphics: 9/10 - Some anomalities when it came to certain parts of the game, otherwise excellent.
Music: 9/10 - Original music, very good for the most part, some tracks were a bit bland.
Voice Acting: 9/10 - Excellent quality, right emotions at the right times to fit the dialogue options.
Gameplay: 8/10 - Good, but too many bugs yet, and some serious camera issues at times.

[Character: Corvus Highmoor, Wizard, Level 30]
[attachment=8476:NWN2_MotB.jpg]

#6 Rastor

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 04:24 PM

Saw that. And so I'm looking forward even more to getting back to it. But I just can't seem to decide who or what I want to do.


Yeah, I always have a rough time deciding on a character concept too.

If it helps you make up your mind, there are no fighter companions of any kind in the MoTB campaign - all other archetypes are represented.
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#7 Simbul

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 10:10 AM

In my opinion MotB is excellent, the story is intriguing, the musical score is outright superb and does a wonderful job maintaining the atmosphere of the game.

This pretty much sums up my feelings about this game :)
For me, a diehard fan of games such as Planescape Torment, probably the most important things in the game are story, dialogue and overall atmosphere. And MoTB has all this at a good level. Not so good as PST, but still - much, much better than the original NWN2 (I wouldn't even compare it to first NWN and its addons - i hated it). I play CRPGs a lot, it's my favorite genre - but it's a rare occasion I find myself to really *care* about some of the things happening in the story, and I did care for the story in MotB.
Also, despite its "epic-ness" it's much more "Realmsian" in feel than Original Campaign.

About Spirit Shaman... I didn't get an impression this class would really fit the story. Even more, I personally think that thematically it wouldn't - but that's just me. Also, there's already an NPC Spirit Shaman, and, taking in account the small number of joinable NPCs in the expansion, you'd better recruit all you can (there's a fix somewhere that allows lifting party limit number)

there are no fighter companions of any kind in the MoTB campaign

Actually, there is one pure fighter.

Myself, I was playing my elven Eldritch Knight, she wasn't so much superior to all enemies as in the OC, but still quite powerful.

#8 Rastor

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 02:49 PM

Actually, there is one pure fighter.


It depends...

*SPOILER*

You can recruit either Many-As-One (Rogue) or Okku (Fighter). Note that Many-As-One and Okku are the only companions of their respective classes in the expansion. Therefore, it might be advisable to make your PC either a rogue or a fighter, depending on which one you intend to take. Many-As-One is more useful, imo - and you *can* change his class if you can get influence high enough. You cannot change Okku's class.
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#9 Bluenose

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 01:28 AM

Actually, there is one pure fighter.


It depends...

*SPOILER*

You can recruit either Many-As-One (Rogue) or Okku (Fighter). Note that Many-As-One and Okku are the only companions of their respective classes in the expansion. Therefore, it might be advisable to make your PC either a rogue or a fighter, depending on which one you intend to take. Many-As-One is more useful, imo - and you *can* change his class if you can get influence high enough. You cannot change Okku's class.


Quite honestly, at these levels a fighter isn't particularly necessary. My character in my first run through the game was a cleric/warpriest (of the Red Knight) who basically filled the meat-shield role quite adequately and I never felt there was a fight where he was being overwhelmed. What I missed more was ways to deal with traps and open locked objects without smashing them and breaking all the best loot :whistling: , but I was able to do enough with a few cross-class skills and occasional spells.

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 07:29 AM

What bothers me a bit is that you cannot play the original campaign with an MOTB character. I admit that it is not ingame lore conform when you start the original campaign with a character that is close to level 30, but so what? THAT decision should be up to every individual gamer.

#11 Tempest

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 03:29 PM

Having finally beaten MotB, here are my thoughts:

The new classes are a mixed bag, to be honest. The Favored Soul is an interesting attempt at a divine sorcerer, basically, but I found myself really missing the versatility that defined the cleric, especially with the new domains (hint: Time domain allows persistent haste!). The extra combat abilities are nice-grabbing martial or exotic proficiency for free is a neat trick, but the rest of their tricks sound better than they are. Especially later in the NWN2 OC and MotB, they cease to have any real impact. The Favored Soul is definitely worth a look, and I feel its superior to the cleric at lower levels, but runs out of gas later on compared to the cleric.

The Spirit Shaman is the other new base class, and it features sorcerer-type casting of druidic magic and a list of special abilities to rival the monk. It's another heavily front-loaded class, unfortunately, with the ultimate ability of the class being laughable at best. Still, it's arguably superior to the druid, especially if you play a campaign or mod with lots of spirit enemies (like, say, the MotB campaign).

Arcane casters should be dancing the happy dance-the Arcane Scholar and Red Wizard are both excellent prestige classes, offering plenty of power with very little downside. Red Wizards are restricted to, well, wizards, but despite what the manual would imply, the Arcane Scholar is mediocre for wizards, and terrific for sorcerers and bards, who can really benefit from the options the enhanced metamagic opens up. Actual wizards are probably better off sticking with Red Wizard, provided they're non-good specialists, which is a reasonable bargain.

Rogues are probably best served by downloading the mod removing epithet restrictions from the Shadow Thief class-the Invisible Blade is just plain bad. It gets the defense bonus of a duelist, and two other laughable abilities-the bleeding wound won't do more than tickle enemies, even in the NWN2 OC, and then there's Feint Mastery. Yes, you read that right. Feint. Even the Harper Agent is a better option than this, doing more in five levels than the Invisible Blade does in ten, having far more versatility, and similarly annoying prerequisites for anyone not a member of one or two classes, plus the standard useless feat or two.

Clerics and monks don't have it as bad as rogues, but MotB is not the answer to their prayers. The Sacred Fist sounds great in the manual, but only manages to be mediocre at both halves it ostensibly merges. Monks are better off taking 30 levels of monk, and clerics are better off taking 30 levels of cleric, minus whatever multiclassing they do. The Stormlord, on the other hand, is a good class, so long as you don't mind marrying yourself to a spear. It has a couple of annoying feat prereqs, and basically restricts you to a spear or thrown weapons-not the first choices of any combat character. If you don't mind that, though, it's a solid prestige class. Just be careful playing mods-the Stormlord gets hosed if the local wildlife is resistant to electricity.

Six new races, you figure a couple of em have to be good. And indeed, a couple of them are, but only a couple. The wild elf is nothing of interest-just a way for creative sorcerer multiclassing to work if you don't want to be human. Stat bonuses and penalties are completely irrelevant for that sorcerer as well. The half-drow is equivalent in every way to the half-elf, and can thus be safely disregarded except for role-playing. It's the genasi that are of interest. They all have -2 charisma, darkvision, 5 resistance to some element, a minor power, ECL +1, and favored class of fighter. Thus, they're all in competition with each other, and the fire and water genasi both lose. The Fire is decent for eldritch knights, and the Water for any fighter multiclass, but they are completely outshone by the others. The extra -2 wisdom Earth and Air genasi suffer is completely irrelevant for a fighter, and both get excellent bonuses-the Earth genasi is arguably the best conventional fighter race in the game, and the ECL doesn't hurt much. The Air counterpart, on the other hand, excels at multiclassing, particularly with rogues, wizards, and the like. And the Air genasi look pretty darn good while they're doing whatever it is they're doing (honorable mention for the Fire genasi here-the Water and Earth genasi just look kind of strange, especially the Water).

Companions: There are nowhere near as many as in NWN2 classic, but that works just fine-each character gains much more depth. They're all deep characters with a great deal of turmoil and intrigue, plot-wise. Otherwise...

Safiya, whom I romanced, just came out feeling very bland, which is wierd considering all the plot mess surrounding her. I don't think I ever heard a single note of emotion in her voice, and there just wasn't anything *interesting* about her. Sure, she's got one messed up soul, but she just kind of shrugged and went along with it like it was nothing. I never once lost any influence with her-as long as you're not outright cruel, she's borderline impossible to offend, and I suspect she doesn't offend anyone, because she has the offensiveness of a loaf of white bread. At least characters like Aerie, Bastila, and Liara (BG2, KOTOR, Mass Effect) all had their share of haters-they were sharp and well-defined characters. Safiya is well defined, per se, but there's just not much there to define.

Gann was just the opposite-I couldn't figure this guy out for the life of me. Sometimes he's reasonable and non-confrontational. Sometimes he goes straight for the throat. He's supposed to be seductive, but I think Viconia is the only woman he'd have any luck with, because he's something exotic. His refusal to believe in a god is really wierd, since his spells are granted to him by *something*, and even spirits only grant spells to those who worship them-same reason Bishop being in the Wall ticked me off. A ranger who's casting spells is granted those spells by a deity, implying said ranger is a fairly devout follower. Even Gann's dreamwalking struck me as arbitary more than anything else-sometimes he dreamwalked, sometimes he didn't. Granted, he's CN, but even Jan and Haer'Dalis had a certain consistency.

Kaelyn, I can't say much about, since she spent most of the game sitting in the Veil. Kinda glad I didn't take her along, though-I defended the city at the end, and I get the feeling she would have turned against me.

Okku, on the other hand, was by far my favorite npc, not just because he made an excellent meatshield for my warlock. Being a good-aligned character, I enjoyed seeing his opinion of me change as the game went along, and he struck me as the only character whose opinion of me did change. He had more character development than Safiya and Gann put together. And honestly, a giant rainbow bear god in the party never managed to get old.

One of Many, I obviously didn't have in the party.

Storywise, I only have a few nitpicks. Bishop ending up in the Wall of the Faithless, for example-he was sure receiving his spells from somewhere, a flaw present in NWN2 as well, where Zhjaeve was a cleric, yet had no diety. Beyond little quibbles like that, I felt the storyline was excellent all around-not Baldur's Gate/Planescape: Torment/Fallout class, but sitting on the level right below it, sharing space with Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect, and Arcanum. It had lots of twists and turns, and to its credit, wasted no time in getting wierd. Which was good, because the entire storyline was very wierd, and its better to get that set up early-MotB makes it very clear you aren't in Kansas anymore within the first hour or so. There's no consistent villain to periodically steal the show, and really no major characters outside of your party that you meet consistently, but the npc's that are there are good. MotB is also notable for having a wry sense of humor-there are all sorts of little references that will get you chuckling, especially if you've played the NWN2 OC-otherwise several will sail over your head.

That also brings me to one of my bigger nitpicks-the entirety of what happened in NWN2 is briskly swept under a rug to make room for the new stuff-your old companions included.. Even if you were a male character in love with Elanee, when you learn of her fate, there isn't even an option to react to it at all-my warlock probably would have put an eldritch blast through the nearest wall the instant he learned. Your allies also express absolutely no curiosity about you beyond your hunger-they never think to ask about *you*-only your hunger. To a great extent, *you* take a backseat in the story. It's never about you. It's about your hunger. Or Safiya. Or Gann. Or Akachi. Or the Red Woman. You as a character are virtually nonexistent in the story. I enjoyed BG2 and even the NWN2 OC because *you* were a very strong character-the rest of the party was your supporting cast, and the game made it clear that you were the center of the story. Not so in MotB.

Despite these quibbles, I have to highly recommend Mask of the Betrayer. It's not perfection, but it's still a great game.

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#12 princesspurpleblob

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 06:47 PM

I'm half way through MotB atm. I'm playing Cleric(8)/War cleric(10)/Divine Champion(5) and regretting my choice heaps. Should have sticked with my eldrich knight.

So far, I'd say story is ok -- catchy and intriguing, but too similar to Torment. At times, I do feel like I am playing Torment in NWN2 engine.

I'm traveling with Gann, Safiya and Okku atm. I like Okku best. Great tank. I'm rather neutral about the other two companions. I really don't see what's so special about Gann. He's... meh. To be honest, I really prefer Bishop from OC. Still have problems with horrible companion AI and pathfinding issues.

And yeah. I find travelling between shadow plane and real world REALLY annoying. Not to mention this annoying *curse* thing. My pc died so many times during sleep and travel. Sigh.

#13 Lysan Lurraxol

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 03:39 AM

IS it just me or are the camera angles on NWN2 really annoying? I loathe both of them.

I loved MotB, really inventive original story, brilliant characters (Loved Safiya and Gann. Safiya was like BG1 NPC' Dynaheir)
Really beautiful areas, far surpassed my expectations and much better than the OC, though, let's be honest, that wasn't difficult). The only part I disliked was the Skein, which was awful, really tedious area, and so long. Also, I despise high level play, I ended up putting go mode on and reading while my party slung over powered spells around. Not fun.


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#14 Jarley

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 03:20 AM

There might be some spoilers in this so if you haven't played the game through, don't read.

I've played MotB through quite a few times now and enjoy it far better than the roginal NWN2 campaign. Sure, there are NPCs I miss (mostly Sand but Ammon Jerro. Now, I know you can get Ammon back for a while but it's not the same) I never really understood what it was in Bishop that people so liked, he just really annoyed me most of the time and I wanted to silence him. I'm probably one of the freaks who liked Ammon's company far beyond what Bishop had to offer.

The companions in MotB. Have to say that Safiya kind of left me cold. Sure, her story was interesting but I would've liked to hear some emotion in her lines. I don't know if it was just me but I couldn't find that much feeling in them. Gann, well, he's my preferred romance option in NWN2+MotB but that's not really saying much. If I just could've romanced Sand. Kaelyn had her uses but I didn't find her very interesting a character. I usually switched her to Okku as soon as I got him. The bear god, I think, was by far the most satisfying companion in MotB. Never tried One-of-Many since I don't usually play evil aligned characters.

The scenery I really liked, didn't even mind Skein that much. It began to be annoying after the third time playing the game through.

Story is another thing I really liked in the game. While you know what you must do quite early, and who the bad guy is, I had fun with the chase of finding out how the baddie came to be. Similar thing in the original campaign. You know from the beginning who the baddie is (or if you don't, you can throw in quite a good guess). The main baddie's story is, what I think, that makes both the games interesting. In neither of the cases it started out as wish for power or a want to revenge.

I didn't mind the curse that much. It could be annoying at times but it never really killed me. Probably ti was because I don't like playing on the hardest setting.

The first time I played through, I think I was sorcerer/red dragon disciple. I ran into a few problems (like in the end when you're fighting a melee chara with two spell casters. I just want to have my meat shield). Well, my character could take quite a few punches before she perished so it wasn't that much of a problem. I tried out some of the new classes but never really liked them that much. The best thing about MotB, when it comes to classes and races, is the genasi, I think. I just like how they look and they can make pretty efficient barbarians and such.
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#15 princesspurpleblob

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Posted 25 July 2008 - 03:33 AM

I still don't see what's so good about MotB... I'm having difficult time to make progress. For some reason, I prefer OC far more than MotB.