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#1 Tempest

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 12:19 PM

For the last couple of weeks, I?ve been helping someone write their own BG fanfic, and it?s given me a lot to think about in terms of writing and how to approach something like a fanfic, which I thought I?d share, both to provide help and to get feedback on my own thoughts. Please excuse me if I end up making lots of references to At Soul?s Edge, my own fanfic tale-writing it has been a very formative experience for me, as well as Into the Maelstrom, a Warhammer 40,000 ongoing fanfic I write on another site. This is also aimed primarily towards BG fanfic and said authors, but there?s a lot applicable to other stuff. This may ramble for a while.


Characters

Nothing in a tale is quite as important as the characters-they are the flesh and blood of the story. However, they?re also one of the easiest to screw up. Here?s why and how to deal with it, from my experience.

Mary Sue/Gary Stu Syndrome. For fanfic authors, this is perhaps the single biggest pitfall in your path, and it?s damn easy to fall into, even if you?re pointedly trying to *avoid* falling into the trap. Mary Sue is the idea of the character who is, for all intents and purposes, perfect. They have a great many strengths, and few to no weaknesses. They tend to succeed in just about everything they try, are never discouraged, usually the center of attention and drama, may never be in serious danger, and generally bend or break all rules of sense, reason, and even physics and biology (for a good example of this, go read the official Baldur?s Gate novels-Abdel Adrian is found alongside Kelsey and Saerileth under the encyclopedia entry on Mary Sue/Gary Stu). A Mary Sue may not even need be blatant about it-just a character who fits the profile.

Unfortunately for BG fanfic authors in particular, elements of Mary Sue are virtually forced onto Charname, and many of the BG1 and BG2 canon npc?s qualify as Mary Sue as well. Now, some Mary Sue-ish tendencies are more than excusable for Charname and company in a BG tale-it?s a swords-and-sorcery fantasy, after all! But make sure Mary Sue doesn?t run loose-it can make for very boring reading if Charname is never in any real danger and succeeds at everything. Even some professional authors, from my experience, fall prey to this-Clive Cussler in particular, when you know any female major character introduced in the first two chapters is going to inevitably fall in love and have sex with the protagonist. Can certainly be good fun, but I have an extreme aversion to Mary Sue Syndrome.

And now, how do you deal with it? First, recognize the warning signs of Mary Sue, which I?ve already listed, but allow me to explain. Is your character every well and truly beaten by someone? Does he/she ever find him/herself in a situation he/she cannot understand no matter how hard he/she tries? Does he/she acknowledge someone else as their true superior in any positive attribute or skill (attractiveness, fighting skill, magical ability, intelligence, etc)? Is he/she envious of anyone else for it? Does he/she make genuine mistakes that cause problems for the party? Are there any truly unpleasant, petty, or cruel sides to his/her personality? The more questions you can answer ?yes? to, the better. If not, I recommend re-evaluating the character.

Branching off from Mary Sue Syndrome, there?s the issue of creating a consistent character. Note that your character can be as outlandish and insane as you like-again, all in good fun. But your character must be consistent within the context of him or herself. Minsc, for example, makes little to no sense when taken in the context of the BG series as a whole and the setting it takes place in. But if you?re looking at Minsc and only Minsc, he does make sense, and he is consistent. If you?re using non-canon characters in the story, I definitely recommend thinking long and hard about making them at least internally consistent.

This kind of consistency can be hard to achieve when you have a character who has depths out of their control like Charname?s taint, and characters undergoing major personality shifts, such as post-Spellhold Imoen versus BG1 Imoen, or in my own BG tale, when Alexandria experienced an epiphany and became a priestess after a lifetime of vehemently refusing to worship the gods. Such changing characters are bound, by definition, to have some degree of inconsistency-though they can actually be highly consistent in their inconsistency!

Nevertheless, I highly recommend keeping your character as consistent and rational as possible-a character who is never the same alignment, nationality, philosophical outlook, religion, or even sexual orientation from day to day (or more frequently) is not only difficult to write unless you?re suffering from attention deficit disorder, but it?s not much fun to read.

The Importance of Filler

A couple of days ago, the writer I?ve been helping explained that her idea for her tale would be a time capsule that Charname returned to in her later days to review events past. Her tale would be mostly collections of short stories, covering climaxes and important events. This is my reply to her, as I think it says a lot (notes: at the site I?m posting ASE on, I?m doing it at a rate of two chapters a week, and it isn?t very far yet, hence my references. Also don?t read the spoiler section unless you want to be spoiled-if you read ASE, you?ll be able to put two and two together, which the person I was talking to couldn?t).

You've got an interesting idea here for how to write and tell the story, but I can say that while writing climactic events tend to be the most fun and interesting to write, it's also the "filler" that tends to really add texture and depth to your characters and their relationships with one another.

I'm taking liberties with the storyline of ASE because I'm confident in my writing abilities, and I've got some hard points in mind-the Roenalls, for example, will definitely be cropping up again, and there will be some major changes in various subplots-though I'm leaving the major storyline alone as much as I can, and I've also laid in the chapters I've posted here so far the foundations for major events later on-for example, a deity of the FR has already manifested in the story (not Bhaal or Cyric, either).

Spoiler


However, that last point in particular is something I decided after the fact-it was simply a filler point of the plot, and I later decided to assign it much more importance than I had at the time. Delicate and involved plots on the part of powerful beings allow for all sorts of leeway with effectively retconning plot, with no one the wiser.

Really, I recommend you try writing some "filler". The big climaxes and plot points are a nice dessert in the meal of a story, but they're meaningless without the meat and sides-if everything is sweet or exciting or even interesting, there's no context, and hence they cease to be [insert analogous adjective here]. Sure, the meat of a story usually isn't as fun to write-but it's necessary, and it's quite often more *interesting*.


This is, in a nutshell, my feelings on filler. My first writing experiences here, in my Darian-oriented tales, were a collection of short stories, covering climactic events and important developments. But I realized, after the fact, that there was something missing-sure, there was lots of action and character development, but there just wasn?t any context to it. Make no mistake-writing climaxes is fun. I?ve had large chunks of the climaxes of several points of ASE and Into the Maelstrom written long before I got there-but to get to the dessert, I had to write the meat.

Shadows of Amn (and the future)

As those of you who are familiar with my writing can attest, I?m fond of foreshadowing-blatant and otherwise. However, using foreshadowing can be a very tricky proposition, and I?ve found that I class foreshadowing by several broad types, depending on how you use it.

The Plothammer. This brand of foreshadowing is about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the readers? collective face, and while usually looked down upon, can be an effective tool when in the appropriate situation. More often, it?s simply a necessary evil. Plothammer foreshadowing is very blatant-it basically tells you what is going to happen and when. Vivid and detailed prophecies (spoken, manuscripts, dreams) tend to be the number-one type of plothammer, but there are other types, such as a major incident that the readers *know* is going to come back to haunt the protagonist (like the Roenalls? appearance in chapter 1 of ASE, or the Bhaalspawn dreams), or something said/overheard that the readers know will be important.

After the Fact. The total opposite of the Plothammer, AtF foreshadowing is technically not foreshadowing at all-when it was written, it didn?t have any meaning beyond the obvious. But the author later decided to write something that made an event even the author dismissed as having no great importance suddenly an foreshadow. Granted, to the readers, there?s no difference between AtF foreshadowing and other types, unless it?s really a stretch, but it?s a note for writers to know-AtF can be a useful if you want to retcon something without actually retconning, and best of all, your readers are [usually] never the wiser.

Devil?s In the Details. Well, this is more the opposite of the Plothammer, really. DitD foreshadowing consists of tiny little things that the readers, for all intents and purposes, do not and cannot understand are foreshadowing, though you as the writer know better. This is something also more realized in hindsight-like AtF, DitD foreshadowing is the kind that causes comments like ?Oh, so that?s what that meant!?, or ?Wait? oh, I see now.? Although very similar, the difference between AtF and DitD foreshadowing lies in intent-with DitD, you?re deliberately and very covertly setting things up. A good example from ASE is the groundwork for Alexandria?s religious conversion-all throughout the story up until then, a lot of her introspective moments and formative experiences occurred under the moonlight, and there were dancing motes of moonlight when she ran away from Gorion?s murder (a manifestation of Selune). The readers couldn?t (I hope!) know that I was in fact setting Alexandria up for coming to worship Selune.

Ironic Shadows. This is really a type of irony, but it fits here, too, and it?s not a hard one to explain-building up something one way in preparation for completely reversing it. A character destined to become a cleric, for example, might spend a large chunk of the story as a fiercely atheistic person. A character destined to become a noble paladin-type with a vow of chastity (or just faithfulness to one particular) person might start as a freewheeling, promiscuous thief, murder, and highwayman (and yes, I?ve read a very good book where the protagonist was precisely this example). It can be fun, but just take care that the change does make sense for the character-it can be gradual or sudden, but just be careful when you do make the change.

Blah Foreshadowing. The title I give this type of foreshadowing says it all-a very bland type of foreshadowing. A young woman makes a point of mentioning that she dreams of being swept off her feet by a knight in shining armor, falling and marrying him? and lo and behold, she does! Or a thief whose ambition is to become the guildmaster-and does by the end of the story. I generally dislike this type of foreshadowing, because it?s simply not that fun for me to write.

Building Sections/Chapters

Most serial fanfics are posted on a chapter-by-chapter basis. The length of a chapter depends on the author and the chapter itself-some writers prefer long ones, some keep them short, and some chapters will naturally be longer or shorter than others. When I sit down to write a chapter, I seldom think about what I?m going to write-my fingers start moving and words start appearing. However, if you have the time or inclination, there?s a better way.

First, what?s the point of your chapter? If it wasn?t worth telling your readers about, you wouldn?t be writing it. Is the point of your chapter to cover a battle or other major event? Is it to move the scene from one major locale to another? Is it to advance a love story? Is it to develop and define the relationship between two characters? Chapters that don?t have a point to them tend to succumb to Wandering Chapter Syndrome, which I?ll describe later.

Second, what?s going on in the chapter? This is usually the same as the purpose of the chapter, but not always. It is my experience that most chapters should have something *happening*-otherwise, they tend to be boring or just meander around for a while without ever getting anywhere. Whether this is a battle or Charname and his/her love interest kissing, the ?event? of each chapter is basically the mini-climax of that chapter, and should be treated accordingly.

Also, don?t lock yourself in stone when you plan a chapter-everything is fluid and liable to edit up until (and to a degree, after) you post. As the writer, you are the ultimate god of your story-what you say goes, no matter how implausible (though if you?re concerned about people?s reactions to it, I don?t recommend getting carried away!). Depending on the chapter, you should go with what just feels best, what feels natural, what best serves the plot purposes, or any number of other goals. Don?t get discouraged if it takes several attempts to get a chapter feeling right-the final product is worth it. I usually end up writing each of my chapters two or three times, trying different approaches and whatnot until I get it feeling right.

Final Thoughts

Just some miscellaneous rambling here. I think the most important thing, bar none, to writing, be it BG fanfic or something entirely different, is that you, the writer, have fun. Be cruel to your characters. Fulfill their wildest dreams. Write Squad Broken alternative content if you want-the readers may not like what you write, but ultimately, readers and how your work is perceived is irrelevant to writing. Writing should be *fun*-never, ever force yourself to write something you don?t enjoy because you?re worried about how it will be perceived. If you like to stay as safe and conservative in your subject matter as humanly possible, good for you. If you like to write stuff so far slammed to the left that you regard a transsexual drag queen with a pet cockroach that rides on his/her/it?s shoulder and is named Fluffy as the avatar of conservative thought, great (well, maybe not so much?). Bottom line: writing should be fun for you to write.

Not to completely contradict what I just said, but in contrast, here?s a technique I use when I?m considering plot twists and bits of character development. I consider the idea I have fully formed in my head, and imagine that I?ve just written and posted it. I further imagine that someone calls me out on it-specifically asking me why I wrote it and what purpose it serves in the story. Imagining that, and thinking of how I would reply to those questions, has been a valuable tool in my writing-it?s helped me avoid many things I wanted to do simply because they were cool, but served no point in the story, and indeed harmed it.

ASE is really what taught me this technique, after I was in fact directly asked those questions in my first half-dozen chapters or so. I had a lot of crap at the beginning that served no point, and I wrote simply because I thought it would be cool. As such, I started to really examine my ideas, and burn away the crap, most of which has never been seen since the first few chapters. Granted, I?ve still got some of it, but there?s a fine line between things that are pointless but don?t harm the story, and things that actually do damage and interfere with the storyline. As a variant technique, try thinking how you would react if you were reading a book and saw something very similar.

On that note, it?s time to embarrass myself a little on just the kinds of things that sort of thought has helped me avoid in ASE:

-Original party was to have been Alexandria, Imoen, Jaheira, Viconia (Khalid would have been killed off fairly quickly), Coran, and Alora

-Alexandria would have been seduced by Coran and afterwards hated him for it, which would have turned into a hatred of men in general.

-In response, Alexandria would have turned lesbian and fallen for Viconia.

It actually sounded like a workable, intriguing idea in my head, believe it or not. But then I asked myself whether I or anyone else could keep a straight face while writing/reading a story like that. On that note, and finding that Coran and Alora are very, very tough for me to write, I tossed that plan into the garbage incinerator and haven?t looked back.

That?s all my mind can spill forth for now, but I may add more at some later point.

"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


#2 Kulyok

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 12:49 PM

Self-critique - to masses!

#3 Dark-Mage

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 01:09 PM

A very interesting and insightful read Tempest. Ine that has particular relevance to me at this moment in time, as I am currently undergoing a sort of 'crisis in faith' in regards to my own protagonist. Hence why new chapters of 'Yearnings' have not been forthcoming.

#4 Crazee

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 01:54 PM

Interesting. The end technique in particular I found really useful, Tempest. It's a good point, and I shall be sure to use that when making important desicions in my writing, I think. Thank you for taking the time to document your thoughts. It's appreciated. :)

#5 Alatariel

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 02:18 PM

I agree it makes an interesting read, to see a writer developing under my very eye and all... :)

Still, I disagree with you, or should I say, our tastes differ, in few points especially 'the filler' as you put it. I appreciate post-modernism far too much to rest on the laurels of (more or less) classical novel style you are proposing. And sometimes the lyrical I can be far more expressive than any 'classically' developed prosaic character you can ever create. Not to mention more interesting. So, while I certainly have nothing against you style of writing, I would say the 'filler' element in fan fiction is definitely optional. I enjoy stories that pose more questions than they solve. So, you say: consistency. I say: mixed genres and stylistic experiments. I know it is 'only' fan fiction, but there is no reason why it shouldn't be ambitious/more intellectually demanding if the author wants it to, right?

I am mentioning this only because you wanted feedback, though, and would prefer to not enter any discourses on literary theory on this forums; as it is it is still (a part of) my field of studies and so I do it whole time at the University... And I visit SHS/play games to relax after... Though I love literature&linguistics, everything should have its limits, you know.

However, I think you should add one thing to the Mary-Suesness and character development -- the surfeit of descriptions, especially of the physical attributes of a character is EVIL. And I mean it. Someone should prohibit it. At least in fan fictions :). As it is people are often concentrating too much on describing how their perfect character looks like/is like than writing. Not to mention that the, lets say, 'mental' aspects are more often than not extremely inconsistent. We can read how intelligent he/she is only to see him/ her saying/doing the silliest thing ever in the next minute... It is the natural course of things, I guess, when the writer wants to create a character which is by default more intelligent than he. And that is when a true Ultimate Mary Sue/Gary Stue ensues. When a writer imposes a trait on the character and then can not make him behave accordingly.
'NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency! Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surpr-... I'll come in again.

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!... Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms - Oh damn!'

#6 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 02:25 PM

Reading that, I remember I really had a good time on tropping myself on those traps, but life is for the chaos, and I have to admit that the Imp is kinda the Mary Sue/Gary Stu. :crying:
Or can anybody say otherwise? :unsure:

But the chaos is so and so nice.

Now, I really don't see a purpose of writing a chapters for a specific reason in a plot line, as I basically have none invented yet, and I come with ideas every-now-then as I look at the chalenges. :lol: No, they aren't in order, but a huge chaos from where I pick the worst of, and put them to the mixer. And thus I form an Unbelievable Story NuggetTM. And once I have the ground build, I throw stones to the construction, and see what sticks. Lke my experience with Minsc, I had nothing real to write about him, so I got rid of him because of the rule the game has that you can't have more than 6 chars, and then later on, I made a revisit of the idea, and formed it to an Unbelievable Story NuggetTM. And it felt so wrong it had to be right.

Deactivated account. The user today is known as The Imp.


#7 jcompton

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:21 PM

I cherish extensive writing advice from someone who builds their signature around their own fanfic lines.

#8 Azkyroth

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:55 PM

Alaterial, you find redeeming traits in postmodernism? Elaborate?

[EDIT]After rereading the main post, this is mostly good advice for people relatively new to writing, but a lot of it seems like common sense and most of the rest could use a more extensive and detailed explication. I'll try and produce some specific examples when I'm feeling better...

Edited by Azkyroth, 15 March 2008 - 02:33 AM.

"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard


#9 Tempest

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 07:43 AM

As I said, it was mostly a lot of rambling thoughts I've had about writing fanfic-lessons I've learned, and things I've thought about, not any sort of "Writer's Guide" or anything of the sort. You might find it helpful. You might not. All I wanted to do was share some of the thoughts I've had on the subject. And Jcompton, only one line in my sig is from fanfic-the other quotes are all from PnP characters I've played, save for the advertisement for my mod.

Edited by Tempest, 15 March 2008 - 07:45 AM.

"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


#10 minotaur_in_maze

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 02:41 PM

Building Sections/Chapters

Most serial fanfics are posted on a chapter-by-chapter basis. The length of a chapter depends on the author and the chapter itself-some writers prefer long ones, some keep them short, and some chapters will naturally be longer or shorter than others. When I sit down to write a chapter, I seldom think about what I?m going to write-my fingers start moving and words start appearing. However, if you have the time or inclination, there?s a better way.

First, what?s the point of your chapter? If it wasn?t worth telling your readers about, you wouldn?t be writing it. Is the point of your chapter to cover a battle or other major event? Is it to move the scene from one major locale to another? Is it to advance a love story? Is it to develop and define the relationship between two characters? Chapters that don?t have a point to them tend to succumb to Wandering Chapter Syndrome, which I?ll describe later.

Second, what?s going on in the chapter? This is usually the same as the purpose of the chapter, but not always. It is my experience that most chapters should have something *happening*-otherwise, they tend to be boring or just meander around for a while without ever getting anywhere. Whether this is a battle or Charname and his/her love interest kissing, the ?event? of each chapter is basically the mini-climax of that chapter, and should be treated accordingly.

Also, don?t lock yourself in stone when you plan a chapter-everything is fluid and liable to edit up until (and to a degree, after) you post. As the writer, you are the ultimate god of your story-what you say goes, no matter how implausible (though if you?re concerned about people?s reactions to it, I don?t recommend getting carried away!). Depending on the chapter, you should go with what just feels best, what feels natural, what best serves the plot purposes, or any number of other goals. Don?t get discouraged if it takes several attempts to get a chapter feeling right-the final product is worth it. I usually end up writing each of my chapters two or three times, trying different approaches and whatnot until I get it feeling right.


Another good reason for chapters and specific events is that one can write them with a Hook and keep the reader guessing enough to "tune in" to the next chapter. Fer instance, I started a fanfic awhile back that was a little different. I wanted to write about <CHARNAME> and (her) companions adventures other than the main game story. Including my NPC (Mod, don't ask).

With that in mind, I started the story with my character and friends (backstory) then went to the start of the "Game" story (In Iranic's dungeon) as Chap. 1-2. The arrival in Athkatla became a journal entry, followed by the encounter with "Mr. Coo" in the slums. THEN I switched back to my (unknown to the reader/player of the game) NPC for a chapter before rejoining <CHARNAME>

The idea was to hook the reader and get them interested. Whether this worked or not remains to be seen as I have never gotten a single comment - either here or on Fanfic.net (And don't get the wrong idea, I am not fishing for praise, I would be happy if someone dropped me a line to tell me that my work blows worse than Michael Jackson at a boy scout convention - if only to let me know Somebody READ it!) but I AM convinced that if you keep the reader guessing and try and end each chapter on a cliffhanger or question you might have a better chance of the reader coming back for more.

Thots?

Minotaur et all. - Resident joke, but havin' fun with it. :rolleyes:
* * * * * *
They say the world is going to Hell.

They are wrong.

The world IS Hell! Always has been, always will be; except perhaps for the five percent or so of the population who can afford differently.

And, if one must reside in Hell, it is far better to do it as a minion of the Devil than as a member of the damned.
* * * * * *
LOVE SUCKS: It makes fools and slaves of us all.
But being alone and unloved is worse.
- Nancy A. Collins "Thin Walls"
* * * * * *