21 replies to this topic

[Klorox]

I was thinking of doing something like this:

Scout 4/Guardian 16

S: 14
D: 14
C: 14
I: 8
W: 14
Ch:14

Looking at the charts and such, this looks like a pretty balanced character, who will kick some butt. I'll start with very good saves, which will allow me to survive while squatting a little bit on the first planet.

I plan on increasing WIS, as it is my understanding that it will help with Force Powers. My hope is to have better Force Powers than most Guardians, and that the feats and bonuses from the Guardian class itself will be enough for me to hold my own in combat.

[SConrad]

The build looks okay, even though I'm personally not a fan of "balanced" builds. When I play KotOR(II), I usually go all-out force powers or all-out melee/lightsaber.

I personally find the Jedi Guardian class the weakest of the three, especially since you can't use the force jump feats in combination with any other combat feat. If I were you, I would strongly consider the Jedi Sentinel instead--for a balanced character, the extra force points will be welcome. The extra skill points are definitely worth it (especially with your low intelligence), too, and the immunity feats are more useful than those of the Jedi Guardian.

You may want to consider dividing your additional attributes between wisdom and charisma, too. Depending on your playing style, a high charisma may actually be more useful than wisdom for your force powers.

Also, light side or dark side?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well balanced chars have their uses when you are "scouting the areas". And the char has nothing that does prevent it from going all the way through...

I personally find the Jedi Guardian class the weakest of the three, especially since you can't use the force jump feats in combination with any other combat feat.

Well, you need to optimize the first strike strategy, you need to have a two-handed light saber with all three two weapon feats and every best saber crystal so you are optimized for maximum damage, and then if the opponent doesn't keel over you either jump away to another or hit them with a flurry.

[Klorox]

I'll be playing a light side character.

This build is far from being set in stone.

[SConrad]

I personally find the Jedi Guardian class the weakest of the three, especially since you can't use the force jump feats in combination with any other combat feat.

Well, you need to optimize the first strike strategy, you need to have a two-handed light saber with all three two weapon feats and every best saber crystal so you are optimized for maximum damage, and then if the opponent doesn't keel over you either jump away to another or hit them with a flurry.

Eh. Force Jump only works with normal attack, not Power Attack/Flurry/Critical Strike, so having those feats (or not) won't actually make any difference. And since you can't "jump away" unless there's another enemy to jump to, the rapid in-and-out tactics won't work against a single enemy; or even multiple ones if they're close to each other.

A lot of the time, it also won't work indoors because there's rarely a clear line of sight to the enemy if you're more than 10 meters away.

To me, Force Jump is by far the most useless Jedi-specific feat in the game.

[Klorox]

What are some useful skills in this game? I'm maxing out Persuade, but it's a CC skill.

[SConrad]

I'm almost tempted to say "all of them." They're all very useful, in different ways. Overall, the skill system in KotOR(II) is very well developed, I think.

In your case, however, don't bother with Stealth unless you plan to really use it. Awareness isn't super important, either--especially if other party member have it.

I'd prioritize Security, Repair and Treat Injury (at least initially), in that order. Take Repair only if you plan on using HK-47 a lot. Computer Use is always useful, too--as is Demolitions. In any case, though, be sure to always have someone in your party with high Security, Computer Use and Repair. If you prioritize certain skills with your PC, prioritize other skills with your NPCs so that you always have a balance between skills. There are certain elements in the game you won't be able to pass (or at least not very easily) without skills.

One way or the other, you'll be cursing a low amount of skill points to spend when leveling up. It's almost worth bumping the intelligence up to 10 or even 12, sacrificing Strength and/or Constitution.

[Jarno Mikkola]

...

You actually don't need any skill points... cause your party members can do the job for you -Stealth, Demolition and Security; Mission can do all these, she is a thief after all. Computer Use and Repair, give them to T3-M4, after all he is a computer. And you know that you can actually go back outside, back to the base to get the skill clowns. Now, the Treat Injury is really unnecessary, as you can get the healing or drain spellforce power at level 6. And the only perhaps most needed skill is the one that you can put all your skill points, the Persuade skill.

Ah, there is actually only one circumstance that you can't go back to get the clowns. The beginning, after you are left alone in Daviks estate, there is a mine that you can't unarm(without high detonation skill you can't get without the scout class). But you can run onto it and survive fine with Canderous, after which he can self-regenerate.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 12 May 2008 - 10:26 PM.

[SConrad]

You actually don't need any skill points... cause your party members can do the job for you -Stealth, Demolition and Security; Mission can do all these, she is a thief after all. Computer Use and Repair, give them to T3-M4, after all he is a computer. And you know that you can actually go back outside, back to the base to get the skill clowns. Now, the Treat Injury is really unnecessary, as you can get the healing or drain spellforce power at level 6. And the only perhaps most needed skill is the one that you can put all your skill points, the Persuade skill.

There's a difference between "needing" skills and "wanting" skills. I may not "need" a thief in BGII, either, but it sure helps to have someone disarm traps and open locks.

Sure, there are individual NPCs who are very good at certain skills, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't spend your own skill points wisely. I might not have T3-M4 in my party when I need to slice this computer to get into that vault with the awesome loot, and even if it's theoretically possible to go back and get another NPC, it's not always practical. I'd rather not have to go back three maps to switch party members because I can't open a door--it takes away from the roleplaying and the overall gaming experience, in my opinion. (Plus that only the protagonist can repair HK-47.)

Treat Injury is most definitely not unnecessary. It might not be as important as other skills, but it'll still get you through the first planet and get you out of tough spots later in the game when your force points are depleted and you can't heal yourself any other way than using a medpac.

[Jarno Mikkola]

There's a difference between "needing" skills and "wanting" skills. I may not "need" a thief in BGII, either, but it sure helps to have someone disarm traps and open locks.

But that's why you have joinable NPCs. To me the Imoen, Jan and Yoshimo were always enough.

Treat Injury is most definitely not unnecessary. It might not be as important as other skills, but it'll still get you through the first planet and get you out of tough spots later in the game when your force points are depleted and you can't heal yourself any other way than using a medpac.

Well, I went through the first planet with 2nd level Soldier, without the need of medpacks(to save the levels for the Jedi Guardian class ). And I truly want to see the char running out of force points... perhaps you are doing something wrong if he does run out?

[Bluenose]

The one thing that I dislike is that Persuade isn't a class skill for either Scout or Guardian, and that's one skill that can't be done by your companions. I don't find it particularly useful as a cross-class skill, since the difficulty is often high enough that you need it at high levels to get any effect. Sometimes you can fake it with a Mind Trick, but not always. The way I'd go is to be a Scoundrel, rather than a Scout. You'll have more skill points to spend and a wider range of class skills throughout the game. I also find that Scoundrel's Luck is more useful than the Scout's Implants for most melee characters, although the lower hit points and fewer feats are problems. Guardian is a good choice for your first playthrough, much more forgiving than Consular, though Sentinel runs close because of the immunities.

Personally I wouldn't increase Wisdom very much. Put your points into Constitution and Strength/Dexterity. There is some benefit to be had by having Wisdom at an odd number, because there's a very nice set of robes available which give you a +5 bonus late in the game. You'll get 5 points before the end of the game, so probably +2CON, +2STR, +1WIS would be my choice.

Unless you're really using Force powers a lot you aren't likely to run out of force points easily except early on. The Guardian probably does best focusing on powers that increase their personal fighting skills such as Force Speed/Valor, and on the Force Heal chain. You'll have a few to spare, especially if you ignore the rather useless Force Armour set. I like Force Push/Whirlwind/Wave, because they're going to have an affect on groups that a Stasis might not. The Dark Side's Lightning powers are also excellent.

Oh, and Dual-Wield. You've got the feats for it, and it's fun. Don't use a double lightsaber, you'll have a load of lightsaber crystals and four slots in two lightsabers is better than two slots in a double.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Oh, and Dual-Wield. You've got the feats for it, and it's fun. Don't use a double lightsaber, you'll have a load of lightsaber crystals and four slots in two lightsabers is better than two slots in a double.

You forgot something, there are six crystal slots in two lightsabers, but decides that, there is only one Krayt dragon pearl, and the standard Double-bladed lightsaber does more damage than the single or short bladed variants, while still giving the same benefits of the 1 normal and 1 short bladed to Thac0.

[Tempest]

I've never had any trouble with persuade, to be honest-even as a soldier or scout. I just make sure I have a charisma of 14 or 16, spend points in persuade whenever I get the chance, and while I do make a beeline for the mind trick powers, I can't say I've ever failed more than a couple of persuade checks.

Personally, with weapons, I prefer dueling and using a single saber. Gives you a nice defensive boost, and dueling helps make up for the downsides of using flurry and power attack. Using two sabers tends to dilute your best crystals, too. My standard mantle of the force/solari crystal/upari crystal is a very potent weapon, and I prefer giving the heart of the guardian to one of my companions for the Star Forge-all my eggs aren't in one basket.

Powergaming really isn't necessary in KOTOR, though. The game's pretty forgiving.

[SConrad]

Well, I went through the first planet with 2nd level Soldier, without the need of medpacks(to save the levels for the Jedi Guardian class ).

I've played through the first planet with a level 2 Scoundrel, so I know it's possible to do it. But for a first-time player who doesn't know the quirks and kinks of the game--and doesn't want to reload every fight three times or go back three maps to change the party configuration--the "take a couple of points in Treat Injury" suggest isn't bad. In fact, I'd consider it fairly smart.

And I truly want to see the char running out of force points...

Jedi Guardian with 8 wisdom and light mastery using the lightning/slow/wound sets against a horde of enemies (or respawning ones)... yeah, I can definitely see it happen.

[Klorox]

I've revised my idea, after a suggestion by somebody on another message board.

I've decided to ditch the idea of saving up levels for instant Jedi levels:

Scout 8/Guardian 12

As far as I can tell (and this is looking at charts, not too much in-game experience), the Soldier and the Scout will have the same number of feats at level 8 (assuming you were going to take Implant Feats anyway), with the following differences:

Scout:
Many more skillpoints (not exactly sure how to calculate this one)
Uncanny Dodge
+6 to all Saves (Soldier matches you in Fort., but has only 2 in Will and Ref. saves)

Soldier:
16 more VP
+8 BAB (Scout only has +6)

I think the only skills I want are Persuade and Treat Injury. I haven't seen the need for others yet. Heck, I even tripped a few grenades and hardly blinked. This will allow me to stick with my original stat distribution (and my 8 INT).

EDIT: I might actually boost my INT to 10, dropping CON to 12 so that I can add the Security skill to my list. But I don't know if this is a wise decision.

Edited by Klorox, 13 May 2008 - 02:05 PM.

[SConrad]

EDIT: I might actually boost my INT to 10, dropping CON to 12 so that I can add the Security skill to my list. But I don't know if this is a wise decision.

I would, if only for the single reason that it's just annoying to have to switch party members everytime you want to open a door or footlocker.

And I still think you shouldn't go with the Jedi Guardian.

[Bluenose]

EDIT: I might actually boost my INT to 10, dropping CON to 12 so that I can add the Security skill to my list. But I don't know if this is a wise decision.

You don't have to take the same skills at every level. A few ranks in each of Treat Injury, Demolitions, Security, and Computer should be all you need, especially since there are items that can increase your skills in these areas. Including some implants.

I don't think increasing your INT to 10 will help much. I think you need at least 12 to get an extra skill point. How skill points work in KotoR 1 is a bit confusing though. KotoR 2 is a lot easier that way.

[Klorox]

I don't think increasing your INT to 10 will help much. I think you need at least 12 to get an extra skill point. How skill points work in KotoR 1 is a bit confusing though. KotoR 2 is a lot easier that way.

I thought a 10-13 INT granted the same amount of skill points, and a 14 gives a bonus.

[Tempest]

Every even number gives you a bonus for that stat: 12 = +1, 14 = +2, 16 = +3, etc.

[Bluenose]

Every even number gives you a bonus for that stat: 12 = +1, 14 = +2, 16 = +3, etc.

It does in KotoR 2, but I don't think K1 worked that way. It was supposed to, but I'm certain I had an Int 14 Consular with only 2 skill points per level. I'm not even sure that it worked the same way for every class.