Jump to content


Photo

What classes are the Jedi in the movies?


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Klorox

Klorox
  • Member
  • 342 posts

Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:39 AM

This is a debate which nobody can "win", but I'd just like to get some opinions.

I think Luke is a Scout/Guardian. He's a great fighter, but starts off fixing stuff on his homeworld (like repairing R2-D2) of Tatooine.

Anakin could very well be the same build, but he'd be a lower level Scout than Luke (his Jedi training started when he was younger than Luke).

Mace Windu looks like a Guardian to me. He's a great warrior, but you really don't see much else out of him.

Palpatine and Yoda are both Consulars. They have great control over the Force, and although they use their lightsabers in the movies, you just know they're better with their other powers.

I'm curious about Obi Wan Kenobi. I'm not sure if he's a Sentinel or a Guardian. I kind of get teh impression he's a Guardian, and that in fact, most Jedi are.

What do you guys think?
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!

Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin

#2 Kellen

Kellen

    Earn a person's heart, and they'll die a thousand deaths

  • Member
  • 7092 posts

Posted 19 May 2008 - 08:40 AM

If one looks at lightsaber colors, one could assume that Ben was a guardian, while Qui-gon, and Yoda are Consulars.

Oddly enough, Luke has two different colored lightsabers, which seem to follow quite well with suspected classes. He begins as a warrior first and foremost, but by RotJ, he seems much more focused on the living Force, than the dead lightsaber.

Darth Maul, hmm. Well he is a strong warrior, but he seems to have some good skill in the force. Perhaps a scout, which would explain why he beats the consular, but not the guardian, in a lightsaber battle.

Anikan is also a bit perplexing, as he had an amazing command of the force at his disposal, but was much more focused on lightsaber combat. <_<
"She could resist temptation. Really she could. Sometimes. At least when it wasn't tempting." - Calli Slythistle
"She was a fire, and I had no doubt that she had already done her share of burning." - Lord Firael Algathrin
"Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." - Tanek of Cloakwood

we are all adults playing a fantasy together, - cmorgan

#3 SConrad

SConrad

    I swear to drunk I'm not God

  • Administrator
  • 11148 posts

Posted 19 May 2008 - 10:12 AM

I'd say that Anakin and Obi-wan are Sentinels. Luke is either a Sentinel or Consular. Yoda and Palpatine are Consulars (or respective prestige classes). According to the more in-depth character background, Qui-gon is a Guardian. So's Mace Windu. And Darth Maul.

I would also argue that most Jedis are Sentinels--using a balance between force powers and lightsaber fighting. I think it's rare for someone to rely so heavily on the force as Yoda, or so heavily on lightsaber fighting, like Mace Windu.

Posted Image Khadion NPC mod - Team leader, head designer
Posted Image Hubelpot NPC mod - Team leader, coder
Posted Image NPC Damage - Coder
Posted Image PC Soundsets - Coder, voice actor
Posted Image Brythe NPC mod - Designer
Posted Image DragonLance TC - Glory of Istar - Designer
Posted Image The NPC Interaction Expansion Project - Writer for Cernd, Sarevok
Posted Image The Jerry Zinger Show - Producer

Iron Modder 5 - Winner


#4 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp in his pink raincoat.

  • Member
  • 10911 posts

Posted 19 May 2008 - 10:14 AM

Anikan...

ANAKIN. <_< Could you try to remember next time.

Mace Windu was definitely a Jedi Guardian->Jedi Weapon Master.
Yoda was Jedi-something-or-another->Jedi Master.
Anakin is said to have been a Guardian->Sith Lord. (on a role playing stand, he lost much of his human body(thus, it could be said he lost all other base classes) after the Palpatine turned him, during the creation process in Mustafar and physical damage later from the Jedi Lightsabers.)

PS, the second classes are from Kotor 2.

Not having played KOTOR, I'd just comment that its interesting how the name Anakin has gained so much more popularity over the past decade than the once all-popular Darth Vader. A similar comment could be made regarding Palpatine and the Emperor.

OK.
The bad @... was definitely a Jedi Guardian->Jedi Weapon Master.
The Little-green-man was Jedi-something-or-another->Jedi Master.
Darth Vader is said to have been a Guardian->Sith Lord...after the Emperor turned him... :lol:

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 20 May 2008 - 12:07 AM.

Deactivated account. The user today is known as The Imp.


#5 Zyraen

Zyraen
  • Modder
  • 1402 posts

Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:46 PM

Not having played KOTOR, I'd just comment that its interesting how the name Anakin has gained so much more popularity over the past decade than the once all-popular Darth Vader. A similar comment could be made regarding Palpatine and the Emperor.

Edited by Zyraen, 19 May 2008 - 06:46 PM.

kiyos.jpg____btlbn2.gif____kovaS.jpg
Love between a Law Enforcer and a Fugitive - can such a thing even happen?
SoA Release - Overview / Download Links

Zyraen's Miscellaneous Mods - Ust Natha Accelerator, item tweaks, XP caps, The Ub3r Reaver Kit, and much more...
Spellhold Gauntlet - more than just a Spellhold-Be-Gone
Hidden Kits - hidden dual-classed kits with a twist for progression


#6 Bluenose

Bluenose

    The gnome-sage of Ral Worcester

  • Member
  • 1565 posts

Posted 20 May 2008 - 07:13 AM

They actually created stats for most of these people for the Star Wars RPG. :whistling: Personally I think most Jedi should be quite flexible, more so than the KotoR system allows. For instance, Obi-Wan has got a variety of abilities, some Guardian-like, some Consular-like, and some Sentinel-like. There's a few who seem very single-classed, Yoda is a pretty pure Consular and Mace Windu would work best as a Guardian, but there's plenty who seem to cherry-pick the abilities they want from a variety of classes.

Back from the brink.

Like RPGs? Like Star Wars? Think combining the two would be fun? Read Darths and Droids, and discover the line "Jar Jar, you're a genius".

These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.


#7 -Guest-

-Guest-
  • Guest

Posted 20 May 2008 - 10:20 AM

weird, i would have thought the star wars rpg would have classes like the crpg kotor. sounds like it doesnt according to your post, bluenose

#8 Bluenose

Bluenose

    The gnome-sage of Ral Worcester

  • Member
  • 1565 posts

Posted 22 May 2008 - 01:29 AM

weird, i would have thought the star wars rpg would have classes like the crpg kotor. sounds like it doesnt according to your post, bluenose


The latest set is different in a lot of ways, though I don't know if older ones are closer. The classes are Noble, Scoundrel, Scout, Soldier, and Jedi. Jedi (and other classes) have a set of talent pools they can select abilities from, but they aren't limited to just one pool. A jedi can pick abilities from the Guardian, Sentinel, Consular, and Lightsaber Combat pools, or from various Force pools. They can use quite a lot of force abilities by default, simply by making a skill check with their Use the Force skill, but some techniques are more advanced and require a particular talent. There are also prestige classes (Jedi Knight, Jedi MAster, Ace Pilot, Master Gunslinger) which open up new talent pools with various abilities. A Jedi Knight gets access to Lightsaber Forms and Duelling, as well as some special force abilities, and a Jedi Master gets another set of special force abilities. The same is true for Sith with Sith Apprentice and Sith Lord.

What this ends up meaning is that different Jedi can pick up a wide range of abilities, from a variety of areas. If you aren't really interested in the more advanced force powers then you simply concentrate on gaining abilities from the Lightsaber Combat pool, Duelling, and Lightsaber Forms. If you're really interested in using the force and not your lightsaber, pick up the extra force techniques and some of the talents from the Consular pool. If you want a mix of abilities the options are there for that. It's suggested that GMs may restrict this if they wish, on the basis that training may not always be available.

Characters: coming

Back from the brink.

Like RPGs? Like Star Wars? Think combining the two would be fun? Read Darths and Droids, and discover the line "Jar Jar, you're a genius".

These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.


#9 Klorox

Klorox
  • Member
  • 342 posts

Posted 26 May 2008 - 06:46 AM

What about Count Dookie?

He can match Yoda in Force powers, as well as with a lightsaber (Consular, right?) But, he holds his own pretty well against Anakin also, but eventually loses. I wouldn't think a Consular, in a strict lightsaber battle would last so long against a Guardian.
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!

Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin

#10 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp in his pink raincoat.

  • Member
  • 10911 posts

Posted 26 May 2008 - 07:25 AM

What about Count Dooku?

:whistling: Well, he was one of the Jedi Masters, then turned to Sith, thus became a Sith Lord...

But in your concepts, a Consular would be the closest.

Deactivated account. The user today is known as The Imp.


#11 Klorox

Klorox
  • Member
  • 342 posts

Posted 26 May 2008 - 07:27 AM

I like Dookie better.
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!

Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin

#12 Klorox

Klorox
  • Member
  • 342 posts

Posted 02 July 2008 - 04:13 AM

weird, i would have thought the star wars rpg would have classes like the crpg kotor. sounds like it doesnt according to your post, bluenose




Characters: coming

I'd still love to see this.
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!

Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin

#13 Bluenose

Bluenose

    The gnome-sage of Ral Worcester

  • Member
  • 1565 posts

Posted 02 July 2008 - 06:21 AM

weird, i would have thought the star wars rpg would have classes like the crpg kotor. sounds like it doesnt according to your post, bluenose




Characters: coming

I'd still love to see this.


Well, here are some of the characters from the Original Trilogy with their classes and levels - but no names :devil:

Jedi 7/Jedi Knight 5/Ace Pilot 2/Sith Apprentice 2/Sith Lord 3

Jedi 7/Jedi Knight 5/Jedi Master 2

Scout 1/Jedi 7/Ace Pilot 2/Jedi Knight 1

Scoundrel 5/Soldier 2/Ace Pilot 3/Gunslinger 2

Scout 3/Soldier 5/Bounty Hunter 5/Elite Soldier 2

The main reason I haven't put up more is that explaining what something does would take up quite a lot of space, and not explaining would be pretty confusing. I don't know how helpful listing a set of force abilities without explaining them would be, but here are Obi-Wan's:

Powers: Farseeing, Force Slam (2), Mind Trick (2), Move Object, Rebuke, Surge, Vital Transfer.
Secrets: Quicken Power
Techniques: Force Point Recovery (2), Improved Move Light Object

Back from the brink.

Like RPGs? Like Star Wars? Think combining the two would be fun? Read Darths and Droids, and discover the line "Jar Jar, you're a genius".

These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.


#14 Klorox

Klorox
  • Member
  • 342 posts

Posted 03 July 2008 - 03:26 PM

Just some guesses:

Jedi 7/Jedi Knight 5/Ace Pilot 2/Sith Apprentice 2/Sith Lord 3 Vader

Jedi 7/Jedi Knight 5/Jedi Master 2 Yoda

Scout 1/Jedi 7/Ace Pilot 2/Jedi Knight 1 Luke

Scoundrel 5/Soldier 2/Ace Pilot 3/Gunslinger 2 Han

Scout 3/Soldier 5/Bounty Hunter 5/Elite Soldier 2 Boba Fett
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!

Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin

#15 Bluenose

Bluenose

    The gnome-sage of Ral Worcester

  • Member
  • 1565 posts

Posted 05 July 2008 - 03:58 AM

Just some guesses:

Jedi 7/Jedi Knight 5/Ace Pilot 2/Sith Apprentice 2/Sith Lord 3 Vader

Jedi 7/Jedi Knight 5/Jedi Master 2 Yoda

Scout 1/Jedi 7/Ace Pilot 2/Jedi Knight 1 Luke

Scoundrel 5/Soldier 2/Ace Pilot 3/Gunslinger 2 Han

Scout 3/Soldier 5/Bounty Hunter 5/Elite Soldier 2 Boba Fett


Apart from your Yoda guess, the others are right. That's Obi-Wan.

Anyway, here's Darth Vader as presented in the Star Wars RPG rules, with some explanation on what it means.
Human Jedi 7/Jedi Knight 5/Ace Pilot 2/Soth apprentice 2/Sith lord 3
Destiny 3; Force 8; Strong in the Force; Dark Side Points 14
Destiny Points are an optional rule. A character can elect to have a particular destiny (Kill the Emperor). A character that takes an action that moves them closer to reaching their destiny gains a temporary bonus, while one who does something that takes them further away suffers a penalty. A character who fulfils their destiny gets a permanent bonus. Destiny points can be spent to get all sorts of special benefits, such as automatic critical hits, avoid all damage from an attack, etc. You gain 1/level.
All characters gain Force Points at every level. You can spend them to add a bonus to D20 rolls, +1-3d6 normally but +1-3d8 for characters with the Strong in the Force feat. They can also be used to augment the effect of force powers. Spent force points are otherwise lost unless the character has special abilities that prevent that.
Dark Side Points represent how close to the Dark Side your character is. To gain levels in some classes you need to have Dark side points equal to your wisdom score. Without DSP you can?t use some force powers at all.

Initiative:+17; Senses: low-light vision; Perception +11
Initiative is rolled to see what order characters act in. Vader has low-light vision and can see in anything short of total darkness. His perception is rolled against an enemies Stealth or the difficulty of noticing an object.
Languages: Basic, Binary, Huttese
Defences: Reflex 39 (flat-footed 36), Fortitude 36, Will 33; Block, Deflect.
Defences are equal to 10 + character level + attribute bonus + class bonus. Reflex is equivalent to AC. Armour usually replaces character level, but various talents can improve the effect.
HP: 181; Threshold 36
Hit points are how much damage you can take before you die. Threshold damage is how much you have to suffer in a single attack to move you one step along the condition track, which gives penalties to movement and actions.
Immune: Fear effects, atmospheric and inhaled poison hazards.
Darth Vader is immune to fear (a class benefit of Sith Lords), and his environment armour means he is immune to breathing in poison.
Weakness: life support
Vader starts to suffocate if removed from his armour.
Speed 6 squares
Normal for a human, representing 9 metres or about 30 feet.
Melee: Lightsaber +22 (2d8+17); +20 (3d8+17) with Rapid Strike; +17/+17 (2d8+17) with Double Attack; +15/+15 (3d8+17) with Rapid strike and Double Attack.
Normally characters can only make one attack in a round. The Rapid Strike feat adds one dice to a melee weapons damage with a penalty of ?2 on the attack. Double Strike allows two attacks in a round at ?5 to hit.
Attack Options: Severing Strike
When an opponent is reduced to 0 hit points, Vader can choose either to kill them or to sever a hand, forearm, or lower leg.
Special Actions: Djem So, Redirect Shot, Temptation
Djem So is a lightsaber form that allows a user to spend a Force Point and make an immediate attack against an opponent who just damaged them in melee. Redirect Shot allows a character who successfully Deflects a blaster shot to make an immediate attack against an enemy within range as if they?d fired the shot. Temptation is a Sith Lord special ability that makes an opponent pick up a dark side point or be weakened if they use a force point before your next action.
Force Powers Known (Use the Force+17):
Farseeing, Force Disarm, Force Grip, Force Stun, Force Thrust, Move Object, Negate Energy, Rebuke, Surge
Force Secrets: Distant Power, Multitarget Power
Force Techniques: Force Point Recovery, Improved Move Light Object, Improved Sense Force
Use the Force is a skill which allows a character who is Force Sensitive to perform various tricks. There are some things you can do without any special training, such as telepathy, moving light objects around, sense disturbances in the force. For more significant tricks you need to take the Force Training feat which gives you 1+Wisdom Modifier Force powers, which still have to be activated with a Use the Force roll. Jedi Knights and Sith Apprentices learn Force techniques, which improve their implementation of other force abilities, and Jedi Masters or Sith Lords learn Force Secrets with significant effects. Vader has Farseeing (he can gain an impression of what is happening near someone he knows); Force Disarm (he can try to take a weapon away from an enemy); Force Grip (the classic neck choke, that damages enemies as long as he concentrates); Force Stun (moves an enemy along their condition track with a successful attack against Will); Force Thrust pushes an opponent away and potentially into an object; Move Object shifts something sizeable and can be used to throw it - +17 is enough that you can probably shift a landspeeder; Negate Energy allows a Use the Force roll to negate damage from a blaster or lightsaber; Rebuke allows you to make a Use the Force check to stop someone else'? Force power affecting you; Surge lets you move faster and jump further for one turn. The Force secret distant power allows you to spend a Force point to increase the range at which a power can be used; Multitarget power allows you to spend a force point to affect an extra target. Force Point Recovery allows you to regain one force point that you spent in the course of an encounter. Improved Move Light object and Improved Sense Force allows those normal force abilities to be used more quickly.
Abilities: STR 16, DEX 16, CON 17, IT 14, WIS 14, CHA 15
Talents: Armoured Defence, Block, Dark Side Adept, Deflect, Djem So, Force Pilot, Improved Armoured Defence, Redirect Shot, Severing Strike, Vehicular Evasion, Weapon Specialisation (lightsabre)
Talents are gained from levels in a class. Vader?s Improved Armoured Defence means he adds half his armour's defence bonus to his reflex score as well as his class level. Vehicular Evasion means a spacecraft he pilots takes less damage from area attack weapons like missiles if they fail to score a direct hit. Block and Deflect allow a Use the Force check to prevent an attack hitting in melee and range combat respectively.
Feats: Armour Proficiency (light), Double attack, Force Sensitivity, Force Training (3), Rapid Strike, Skill Focus (Use the Force), Strong in the Force, Vehicular Combat, Weapon Focus (lightsabers)
Feats are gained at first level and every third level. Some classes give bonus feats from a limited list.
Skills: Initiative +17, Mechanics +16, Pilot +17, Use the Force +17 (may reroll when using Dark Side powers).
Skills are ½ level + 5 if Trained +5 for Skill Focus + Ability modifier (- any penalty). Jedi don?t get many.
Equipment: Customised Armour/Life Support; Lightsaber, Cybernetic Prosthetics (arms, legs, and part of body which combined give ?5 to Use the Force checks), Sith robes, Utility Belt, Medpac.

Back from the brink.

Like RPGs? Like Star Wars? Think combining the two would be fun? Read Darths and Droids, and discover the line "Jar Jar, you're a genius".

These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.