12 replies to this topic

[Scipio]

I'm seeking opinions on the best pair of characters to go through BG2.

For the heck of it I have deviated from my usual practice of playing with a party of six. After reading in other threads about playing with three party members or going solo I decided to see how easy it was to play with two.

I started in Multiplayer to generate two characters. They are a berserker who dualled to cleric immediately the game started. The other is a thief who dualled to mage as soon as the game began.

With both characters starting at Level 1 in their new classes I figured they would need some initial assistance, which may be going against the principle of using just two characters but I thought it necessary for survival. I dismissed Minsc as soon as he was out of his cage but I keep Imoen for her thieving and Jaheira for her healing.

My cleric soon had enough healing spells for me to send Jaheira away. I kept Imoen until we met Yoshimo, when she went free. Yoshimo stayed with me until we reached the surface because my mage hadn?t yet regained his thieving skills.

Just my two generated characters went into the circus tent. By the time they came out they both had their full dual-classes abilities. So I had a fighter-turned-cleric with five slots in war hammers (in anticipation of the good hammers you can get early in the game and, later, Crom Faeyr) and a thief-turned-mage with 100 points each in finding traps and picking locks, and proficiency in long swords (for Daystar and whatever better weapons come along) and short bows (because there are also some nifty ones early in the game).

Both characters are now approaching level 14 after very few quests. Soon both will be able to summon skeleton warriors, my stand-by pet monsters for most occasions. Some of the fights have been tough. By and large, however, these two bods are winning battles more easily than I usually do with a full party. The only two drawbacks have been carrying capacity, fixed with the console to get a bag of holding; and sometimes they need to rest more often to recharge spells.

So far they haven?t needed to use missile weapons at all except for a couple of fire or acid arrows in D'Arnise Hold to wipe out trolls. My thief-mage will keep his bow so that he can use the most powerful anti-mage weapons in the game, which are arrows of dispelling. Otherwise, I don't anticipate much need for missile weapons as they progress, and they're also wading through enemies without using many spells.

I miss the interaction with NPCs but I have a parallel single-player game going with Tashia, the sorcerer mod, in that party for a new and untried romance.

So, after all of this, here's the thing. No, three things:

** One, is there a markedly more effective pairing of characters? I've seen praise for dual classes I haven't tried, such as swashbuckler/druid.

** Two, if I were to try just the PC and one NPC, what combination of PC class and which NPC would be best? (I don't suppose many of you would recommend Aerie as the NPC. Tsk, tsk. But she does have mage and cleric spells to support some mighty warrior who drags her to Hell and back.)

Three, is there actually any need to look for a more potent pairing, since the current two are kicking so much butt for Scipio-ness? Do you think they'll be able to stand up against the much more powerful enemies they will meet later in the game?

[Kellen]

One, I never do the solo or dual run. I always go full out. However I can tell you few things stand to a Sorcerer in BG2.

Two, If I wanted to play with just one NPC, I would choose an NPC with a romance or friendship path with the PC. I would ant the extra interaction. That said, I'd be likely to choose Aerie or Jaheira over Vicky. Aerie provides an adequate mage, particularly if my PC is, and an acceptable cleric. Jaheira bring some excellent druid spells to the table, as well as being able to provide a front line. And summon nature's ally provides a secondary healer too.

Three. With the more powerful bosses(particularly late ToB) you might notice the need for some more powerful classes. I don't know.

Kellen(He who does not solo) signing out.

[Nuuskamuikkunen]

But....two?? That's halving your xp! HALFFF. Not impressed.

[the bigg]

If you're looking for classes tweaks, I'd personally have tweaked the Thief -> Mage to be a Swashbuckler -> Mage. Perhaps also the Berz -> Cleric to Ranger -> Cleric to have the full spell range (but Enrage is sweet too).

If I had to duo, though, I'd go with (uncapped XP) one FMC and one FMT - when duoing, you'll be getting levels slightly more slowly than the single class equivalents in a party of six (due to less Quest XP). You can also completely ignore traps and go FMC and FM (to have ninth level spells early enough). Unless you wish to reap kit bonuses (Swash and Berz, most likely), multis are better than duals (since you get both types of HLA, and when multing between two classes you'll still have more than enough XP to max out both classes, and three classes shouldn't lag back too much).

In all seriousness, though, a solo mage can beat the default BG2 (the full log is available at baldurdash.org), so, unless you're using SCSII or similar, any class should be good enough.

If you want to duo with an NPC, I'd use Aerie and a F/T (not FMT, because Aerie cannot tank without specific buffs and thus I'd like some more focus on the F aspect). I've limited my choice only to romanceable chaps, because otherwise they have nil interactions with CHARNAME.

PS: There's no such thing as a Swash -> Druid, although Swash -> anything is pretty sweet (you get bonuses to AC, thac0 and damage, and with Belm and dual-wielding you can turn even a mage into an effective tank).

Edited by the bigg, 24 May 2008 - 06:54 AM.

[Scipio]

If you're looking for classes tweaks, I'd personally have tweaked the Thief -> Mage to be a Swashbuckler -> Mage. Perhaps also the Berz -> Cleric to Ranger -> Cleric to have the full spell range (but Enrage is sweet too).

Looks like I did one thing right and another thing I didn't have to do. My thief did begin life as a swashbuckler, so that is an advantage. But I chose to start the FC as a beserker for the ability to resist level drain. I forgot that I would soon have the Amulet of Power (which I now do have) and its immunity to level drain. Soon I'll have the illithium-coated mace and I can give the amulet to the other guy, so we can both laugh at vampires.

If I had to duo, though, I'd go with (uncapped XP) one FMC and one FMT...

Very good point. I'm already starting to have misgivings about the dualled FC because he's not going to get many proficiency slots in useful weapons like the power-maces or the Flail of the Ages (if I ever find a reason to use it!). Maybe that won't matter when I've got Crom Faeyr, but it takes some getting.

If you want to duo with an NPC, I'd use Aerie and a F/T (not FMT, because Aerie cannot tank without specific buffs and thus I'd like some more focus on the F aspect).

Aha! Now that I've seen how well two can do compared with six, this may be my chance to spend a lot of time on quests with nobody else to distract my favourite character! I know lots of people hate Aerie but she reminds me of a sweet, naive, innocent girl who worked for me. (I didn't romance her, not when I have Mrs Scipio in real life.) Flippancy aside, Aerie should level up pretty quickly in a duo.

PS: There's no such thing as a Swash -> Druid, although Swash -> anything is pretty sweet (you get bonuses to AC, thac0 and damage, and with Belm and dual-wielding you can turn even a mage into an effective tank).

I thought that might be possible with Level 1 NPCs. If it was possible I'd love to play as a kensai-sorcerer.

EDIT: Yet again I posted a reply without first actually typing the reply. And I'm expecting myself to concentate enough to go through the game with just Aerie to keep me focused?

Edited by Scipio, 24 May 2008 - 09:58 AM.

[the bigg]

My thief did begin life as a swashbuckler, so that is an advantage.

If you did, you forgot to say so - you said thief

But I chose to start the FC as a beserker for the ability to resist level drain.

He'll still be immune to a lot of mind-altering effects when using Enrage, as well Maze and Imprisonment, so it's not a total waste. This means that (after donning the Cloak of Mirroring) you can basically stop fighting and show your buttocks to Irenicus and he'll still be unable to as much as scratch you. Of course, when playing with two people I'd willingly trade Enrage for GWW and cast Chaotic Commands to achieve similar effects.

Very good point. I'm already starting to have misgivings about the dualled FC because he's not going to get many proficiency slots in useful weapons like the power-maces or the Flail of the Ages (if I ever find a reason to use it!). Maybe that won't matter when I've got Crom Faeyr, but it takes some getting.

You'll also kick yourself for giving up on GWW, more so than for the proficiency points (if you played your cards right, you should have enough to get ***** in two different weapons and ** in dual wielding by the end of SoA in a party of six). An FC (or MC) multiclass has almost enough XP points in a party of six to be your full-time healer and buffer. Even more so in a party of two, you don't really need the extra XP a pure and/or dual class clerics gets.

[Scipio]

If you want to duo with an NPC, I'd use Aerie and a F/T (not FMT, because Aerie cannot tank without specific buffs and thus I'd like some more focus on the F aspect). I've limited my choice only to romanceable chaps, because otherwise they have nil interactions with CHARNAME.

Hope people don't mind me following up on this thread from a week ago, but it's been a revelation to me to play SoA with just two characters instead of my usual party of six. This information may be useful to anyone else who is considering a first-time run with such a small party.

At the greatly knowledgeable suggestion of the bigg I started a new game last week with a Swashbuckler dualed to fighter as the PC, and only Aerie is my companion (for her combination of cleric and mage spells).

Life was tough for a while when the PC was around Level 15-16 and Aerie still had fifth-level or lower spells. But now my duo is ridiculously powerful! We did all the pre-Spellhold quests, the whole lot. Now we've only just entered the Underdark. My PC is Level 24. Aerie is Level 17 Cleric and 15 Mage. We are annihilating enemies without raising a sweat. Even Aerie, armed with the hammer from D'Arnise hold, can tank it out toe-to-toe with three trolls or four Saghuin and smash them to bits without taking more than a few light dents in her Stoneskin.

This pair is actually so strong that I don't think they will bother with ToB. It's more of a challenge to play with six lower-level characters! So maybe it'll be back to the old routine... or time for a solo run with a half-elf F/M/C and all traps/locked doors cleared with Tweaks.

I must say I miss the PNC interaction, though.

[Klorox]

I did a Dwarf Fighter/Thief with a Sorcerer dual run. The game was so easy. I never finished because it got too boring.

[Scipio]

I did a Dwarf Fighter/Thief with a Sorcerer dual run. The game was so easy. I never finished because it got too boring.

I've pretty much reached that stage with my Swashbuckler/Fighter and Aerie. My PC is on Level 44, Aerie is about Level 28 Cleric/Level 25 Mage, and we haven't finished SoA yet. I don't think we will. My PC can hack-and-slash against just about anyone and Aerie only casts about one-third of her spells before we need to rest. I'm going back to my party of six!

[Vicen]

Heh doesnt the game only go up to lvl 50?

with my party of six I just beat that I went through bg1 soa and tob with I think my main guy was only 25 or 26!

And I did just about everything except watchers keep...Ive never actually done watchers keep...it just seems pointless when you know how fast tob is and you wont have those rewards lootwise for very long...I will most likely try it in my next soa game I reckon

[Sir_Carnifex]

I'll have to try a small party sometime. The smallest I ever did had three members. That didn't last too long before it ballooned to six. Somehow small parties just aren't as appealing to me.

[Scipio]

Heh doesnt the game only go up to lvl 50?

Yes. How fast you level up obviously depends on three major things in addition to total XP: your class (e.g. clerics level up faster than mages); whether or not you're multiclassed (my PC wasn't, he dualled immediately from a Level 7 swashbuckler to a fighter); and the size of your party (much quicker levelling uo when you're diving party XP by 2 instead of 6). We did all of the quests plus most of Watcher's Keep in SoA because Tweaks lets you ugrade WK items at Thingymatoot the Dwarf instead of waiting to meet Cespenar the Tame Parrot. We also owned all of the strongholds and got those XP, thanks to Tweaks. In addition Aerie was re-learning every spell we could find or buy because we were loaded with cash.

With two levels of WK plus Suldanessar and Hell still to go, my PC would probably have reached about level 47 by the end of SoA. If he went on to ToB he would reach level 50 before we got to fighting the fire giants. What would be left for him to gain? As it is he hasn't been adding more than 1 HP per level for a while and he stopped reducing his THAC0 way back. How many whirlwind attacks can he use? It's become sorta boring. Aerie buffs us, Aerie summons multiple simulacrums, Aerie summons 8 Mordy swords and a battalion of skeleton warriors, my PC mops up....

Edited by Scipio, 10 June 2008 - 05:03 PM.

[Zyraen]

I did a Solo Reaver run before. I skipped Irenicus with DBG, went to Circus, went to Gaelan, cleared Copper Coronet->Lilarcor Sewers->Slaver Ship, went to Docks cleared all the Quests there, went to Temple Sewers to kill the Evil Party, then I killed the Slave Lord Compound in the Temple, getting Celestial Fury.

At that point I pretty much stopped playing. Things just got too easy, especially when you can run around in a Full Plate Mail +1 that can allow you to use your Thief Skills bar Stealth. It got worse after killing the Shadow Dragon to get his Scales.

============

That being said, I do highly recommend a Mage/Thief multiclass Solo game Its very fun especially since you'll never be really good at anything. Especially challenging to try to take out the Seven Vales Inn party with the Cloak of Non-Detection, when you're still fresh out of Irenicus Dungeon. I had to use Traps, Summons, everything, to make this combo playable. But maybe I'm just not very into buffing spells.
( I'd like to Clarify. MT Solo with 8M XP Cap... )

Alternatively, you can try a 2 person run, or Solo run, where you force yourself to go to Spellhold the moment your PC hits 1.5 Million XP and go to Suldanessellar once your PC hits about 2.2 Million XP. Its letting your XP determine where you go So you'll always be "roughly the same level" as your opponents. If you can't manage your XP Caps well, there's the Component in Zyraen's Miscellany that Caps out your XP per Chapter

BTW, one thing I found about tanking at Hard / Insane levels, is that they do really hit you quite often. Especially in ToB, its ridiculous how they can still hit you when you have -12 AC. But hell, its ToB so who cares...

Edited by Zyraen, 10 June 2008 - 05:55 PM.