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Guardians: STR build or DEX build? (KotOR I)


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#1 Klorox

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 01:39 PM

Which do you find is a more effective build for a Guardian? Boosting his STR (therefore damage) or DEX (defense and a few skills)?

Or do you mix and match, leveling both up along the way?
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#2 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 01:56 PM

Well, I always go with a STR build, as it gives damage and basic attack bonus at the same time, especially as the Guardian is good at the fast fights with double-bladed lightsaber, force speed and forcejump or flurry attack. With that speed, you rarely need to defend yourself, and the force healing is for that, except against the big bad end boss, and the DEX won't help you there.

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#3 Anaximander

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 06:44 AM

I agree with Jarno. If you're playing a Guardian in KOTOR1, go with a strength build. Force Speed + flurry attack should dispatch all but the toughest of opponents in one shot early on. Later, the damage bonus from Force Jump will allow you to jump from one to the next, killing them all as you go. You can also use Force Jump to great effect against Malak. Use Speed to run ahead of him, then turn and force jump him. Maybe hit him with a flurry attack for good measure, then run away again, healing as you go.


Now, in KOTOR2, I would switch my stance and go with a dex build. I've played a strength guardian and a dex guardian in KOTOR2, and the dex build faired far better against the end boss than the strength build did. She couldn't even touch my dex monkey, whereas the strength build had to constantly stop for healing.
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#4 -zaalbar is awesome!!!-

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 06:13 AM

it depends on what the first class is

ironically, soldiers dont need the strength. with power attack and lightsabres, you will do a ton of damage. boost your dextreity, it increases your to hit and defense.

with scouts, you need strenth. its the only stat that makes flurry worthwhile (otherwise, by the numbers, you wont be as effecitve as power attack or critical strike)

with scoundrels, you need strength too. strength increases your chance for crits, which makes your sneak atacks so much better, which makes you a more powerful combatant.

id stop at level 7 scoundrel, so that u have +4 defense also, and that's like +8 to your dexterity, in defensive terms. that is unspeakably awesome!!! (almost as awesome as zaalbar!!!)

#5 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 06:47 AM

it depends on what the first class is

ironically, soldiers dont need the strength. with power attack and lightsabres, you will do a ton of damage. boost your dextreity, it increases your to hit and defense.

with scouts, you need strenth. its the only stat that makes flurry worthwhile (otherwise, by the numbers, you wont be as effecitve as power attack or critical strike)

with scoundrels, you need strength too. strength increases your chance for crits, which makes your sneak atacks so much better, which makes you a more powerful combatant.

id stop at level 7 scoundrel, so that u have +4 defense also, and that's like +8 to your dexterity, in defensive terms. that is unspeakably awesome!!! (almost as awesome as zaalbar!!!)

Where do you get this info? As it's mostly false. Str raises your Basic Attack Bonus and your damage out put, thus giving you greater chance to kill the opposition in first round, which is what every close combat fighter wants.
And, for dexterity to increase your BABs, you need the Fitness: Lightsaber. I don't remember that KotOR I, even having it for the Player Character. :unsure:
Power Attack is bad for your BAB, so the Flurry(if even needed) is much better for all the chars(fighters) as you gain quite much out of the few armor losses, namely the extra attack on the round, thus giving you a huge bonus in BABs, if you look at the numbers, or the numbers of round needed to near fighting the opponents.

And why in the frell would you stop at level 7, you gain nothing out of the 13th level of Jedi, but a force power, as you gain a Feat on the 8th level instead. The game is optimized to 4th or 8th level as the class changing level.

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#6 -zaalbar is awesome!!!-

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 09:00 AM

it depends on what the first class is

ironically, soldiers dont need the strength. with power attack and lightsabres, you will do a ton of damage. boost your dextreity, it increases your to hit and defense.

with scouts, you need strenth. its the only stat that makes flurry worthwhile (otherwise, by the numbers, you wont be as effecitve as power attack or critical strike)

with scoundrels, you need strength too. strength increases your chance for crits, which makes your sneak atacks so much better, which makes you a more powerful combatant.

id stop at level 7 scoundrel, so that u have +4 defense also, and that's like +8 to your dexterity, in defensive terms. that is unspeakably awesome!!! (almost as awesome as zaalbar!!!)

Where do you get this info? As it's mostly false. Str raises your Basic Attack Bonus and your damage out put, thus giving you greater chance to kill the opposition in first round, which is what every close combat fighter wants.
And, for dexterity to increase your BABs, you need the Fitness: Lightsaber. I don't remember that KotOR I, even having it for the Player Character. :unsure:
Power Attack is bad for your BAB, so the Flurry(if even needed) is much better for all the chars(fighters) as you gain quite much out of the few armor losses, namely the extra attack on the round, thus giving you a huge bonus in BABs, if you look at the numbers, or the numbers of round needed to near fighting the opponents.

And why in the frell would you stop at level 7, you gain nothing out of the 13th level of Jedi, but a force power, as you gain a Feat on the 8th level instead. The game is optimized to 4th or 8th level as the class changing level.

1)lightsabers in kotor1 are AUTOMATICALLY finnessable. they use EITHER dexterity or strength to hit, whichever is higher.
2)the BAB of a guardian is great enough to compensate for a measly -2 or 3 to hit. i think the highest power attack grants +10 to damage, which is awesome, especially when u add in knight speed or whatever. thats like +40 damage a roung, cuz yer never gunna miss!
3)flurry hurts BAB to, doesnt it? or is it your defense rating?
4)u stop any starting class at level 7 when ur playing a guardian. sure, u get a bonus feat at level 8 for all classes, but a guardian gets a bonus feat at level 12 AND 13. so stopping at 7 when switching to guardian is better for the higher fp, higher fp, and 1 extra force power.
5)why is the game optimized to stopping at level 4? level 5 and level 15 each grant a feat for every class.

#7 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:20 AM

5)why is the game optimized to stopping at level 4? level 5 and level 15 each grant a feat for every class.

It's every third after the first level, so it's 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18.
4) It's because of the saving throws.
Link. For the info. You'll see that the 13th level isn't much good at all, compared to the others.

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#8 -zaalbar is awesome!!!-

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:56 AM

5)why is the game optimized to stopping at level 4? level 5 and level 15 each grant a feat for every class.

It's every third after the first level, so it's 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18.
4) It's because of the saving throws.
Link. For the info. You'll see that the 13th level isn't much good at all, compared to the others.

'fraid knot.

every non-jedi class gains a feat at 5th level. the progression you list is true for all jedi classes, except that guardians gain more feats than that. check this link http://www.gamebansh...es/guardian.php . guardians get feats at 1,3,6,7,9,12,13,15,18.since they get a bonus feat at 13, stopping at level 7 (7/13) and 8(8/12) give u the same number of feats at level 20, but an extra jedi level gives you more vp, fp, and another force power.

#9 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 11:12 AM

...

Well it doesn't really matter as I always go with level 2. And yes, I have killed the Bendak Starkiller with him. :D

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#10 -zaalbar is awesome!!!-

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 11:15 AM

...

Well it doesn't really matter as I always go with level 2. And yes, I have killed the Bendak Starkiller with him. :D

i am dissappointed in u. u are completely wrong and instead of saying something like 'i didnt realize' or 'ur right' u come back and say 'it doesnt really matter' because u play a different way.

tsk tsk
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#11 -Darth Maul I-

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:54 PM

Lol. Awesome thread

#12 Eleima

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:11 PM

Just a friendly warning, DarthMaul I, this is necroposting and a low content post. Try to avoid this in the future, thanks! :)

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#13 -Rektmuch-

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 05:59 AM

Jarno Mikkola got rekt and won't admit it



#14 The Imp

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 07:20 AM

Ahh fun times. Yes, I won the thing anyways, cause I came up with a better still... after. :ROFL:

And then now there's this. Not that any of this needs to be rehashed.

 

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#15 -REVAN-

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 07:14 PM

I agree with zalbaar 1000%. lvl 7 scoundrel/ 13 guardian is the optimal route for the dark side.  I am currently playing this character now. So many questions to answer. AT lvl 7 you get you scoundrel sneak attack IV for an extra 5-24 damage on an enemy stunned or disabled, or hit from BEHIND! AND force jump counts as sneak attacks as well. With master speed thats 3 sneak attacks per hit! This is the whole reason you pick scoundrel in the first place, along with your +4 def for scoundrels luck. And like Zalbaar said you get an extra feat as a guardian at lvl 13 so waiting till lvl 8 to get the same feat is not efficient. Becasue every lvl in guardian gives you more hp, more force points, an extra force power, and boosts your weak fort saves from going scoundrel. Now with that being said strength is by far the most important stat for the scoundrel/guardian. At lvl 20 with gear and stims and force valor i will have 36 strength. That is 13 extra damage per hit and +13 BAB. with master speed on thats 39 EXTRA damage per round. With  critical strike that doubles to 78 extra damage on crit. plus whatever damage your weapon gives already. With the right crystals opila +3 damage and plus 2-12 damage on crits. Crystal nextor +1 and 2x crit range. Do a master crit strike and you are criting from rolls 11-20! or 45%. STRENGTH determines whether the target is stunned by the crit strike because the check is your lvl=+ str mod vs a fort save roll. succeed to stun the target and you get your sneak attack bonus damage! Strength is VITAL to maximize this build. Also im going dueling for even more def and BAB +3 each (because a crit lightsaber only gets +1 atk bonus which is low. AND one saber hitting all the time is infinatly better than 2 sabers missing! NOW with all that being said dex is very important to get you a solid DEF score. Yoy do need some dex so you cant be hit. so by picking scoundrel you get base 10 +4 def, guardian +6, dueling +3, Master speed +4,  top tier robes +5. with a dex score of 26 you are at an AMAZING 40 DEF!!! nothing can hit you except the toughest enemies in the game! Now back to another reason lvl 13 guardian is so important is that it give you 14 powers allowing you to max out the powers you need!. they are 3 in Plauge, 2 in Choke, 2 in Force Breach, 3 in Master speed, 3 in Master Valor, and 1 in Force resistance to make up for your horrible will saves as in can negate force powers on successful rolls. Without that one extra power you lose something, like master valor taking you from +5 to all stats... down to only +3. Or Force resistence etc. NOW plauge and choke are the key to the PERFECT scoundrel guardian. If you land plauge and choke the enemy stats go down by     - 16 str, dex, con, and -14 int, wis, and cha. BUT you NEED force breach to land this on the final boss!!! This makes their saves drop drasticallyyyy, which makes your chances or stunning them on a crit strike go way up! AND if chokes you get you sneak attack bonuses on them.  the -16 con drops their health down massively as well. SO i hope that helps you guys. IN short you need both high STR and DEX. but always favor STR. gear and implants are diverse. get the STR gloves, get the DEX implant, STR robes and belt or maybe get the DeX belt if your str is always very high. STIMs give you +6 and MASTER valor gives you +5 so alway have those on. OH also feats are MASTER dueling,  master critical strike, lvl 2 implants, lvl 1 toughness, weapon focus lightsaber for +1 AB and +2 dam.



#16 -Darth Avarice-

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:22 PM

Revan, I just finished a very similar light side scoundrel guardian (5/15) running with Jolee and Mission (double pistol) whenever available. Insanely powerful with a high strength due to the strength modifier for the crit stun effect. One shots just about everything in the game after a certain point, even stood toe to toe with the tarantateks on korriban. I didn't boost dex at all, rarely took any damage when opening with horror/insanity.

Have you verified the nextor stacks with crit strike? Looking through feedback on a prior build it seemed like they did not stack so I ran this build mostly with opilia and sigil or krayt until the endgame crystals.

I'm starting get a dark side scout/guardian heavy armored build now planning for the yavin exoskeleton (I know it's medium but I want to use the sith mask too). Probably not the most effective build but it's something new for me and looking forward to playing it a little different and choosing different options.