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Translating PS:T Fixpack, UB & QTweaks


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#1 Ghildrean

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 07:36 AM

Hi!

I have questions about those mods. Can those mods be translated? Or will they have .tra files in future versions?

Thanks for your attention and congratulations for those mods.

#2 Qwinn

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 07:58 AM

I have questions about those mods. Can those mods be translated? Or will they have .tra files in future versions?


Currently, they do not have .tra files set up (neither did the original PS:T, which as far as I know did not produce any international versions). PS:T seems to have considerably more dialogue than most other IE games though. IF someone is willing to go through the grind of actually producing a .tra file in another language for all the dialogue in this game (about 68,000 lines, though not all unique), I will be happy to do what it takes to make a future Fixpack version capable of using it. I'd prefer to see someone get at least halfway through the trouble of translating it to another language before I bother though. Compared to that, the work required to make the .tra file work is really trivial.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 06 June 2008 - 08:01 AM.


#3 the bigg

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 08:03 AM

Currently, they do not have .tra files set up (neither did the original PS:T, which as far as I know did not produce any international versions). PS:T seems to have considerably more dialogue than most other IE games though. IF someone is willing to go through the grind of actually producing a .tra file in another language for all the dialogue in this game (about 68,000 lines, though not all unique), I will be happy to do what it takes to make a future Fixpack version capable of using it. I'd prefer to see someone get at least halfway through the trouble of translating it to another language before I bother though. Compared to that, the work required to make the .tra file work is really trivial.

I know there's at least an unofficial Italian translation of PST.

Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
Maintainer: Semi-Multi Clerics - Nalia Mod - Nvidia Fix
Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.


#4 Qwinn

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 08:13 AM

Really? Alright. Anyone who is in charge/has credit for a particular translation should feel free to get in contact with me if they would like to see their translations made available and installable as part of the Fixpack. Full credit - and responsibility for maintenance - would certainly be given. Or if they would rather keep their translation as a separate mod, and want to coordinate compatibility with me in some other fashion, feel free to post on the relevant forum or send me a PM.

All that aside, if there's existing translations out there, they're probably being implemented just by replacing the dialog.tlk file. The game should still be 99.9% playable if replacing it after installing my mods. The only bits I can think of that I probably wouldn't install would be the UB Morte + Ingress's Teeth Banter (contains some new dialogue) or either version of the Tome of Cheats (100% new dialogue).

Qwinn

#5 Qwinn

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 08:27 AM

Hmmm. Come to think of it - that (just replacing the dialog.tlk) might cause issues. A better solution would be to take the translated dialog.tlk files, use weidu to convert it to a .tra, turn the .tra into STRING_SETs, and apply that using weidu after my mods. -That- should work pretty well, or at least 99.9%.

Qwinn

#6 Ghildrean

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 09:59 AM

I know there's at least an unofficial Italian translation of PST.


And an unofficial Spanish translation too. But I've seen the dialogfix.thp in the Fixpack WeiDU and is, without a few lines, the entire dialog.

All that aside, if there's existing translations out there, they're probably being implemented just by replacing the dialog.tlk file. The game should still be 99.9% playable if replacing it after installing my mods. The only bits I can think of that I probably wouldn't install would be the UB Morte + Ingress's Teeth Banter (contains some new dialogue) or either version of the Tome of Cheats (100% new dialogue).


And what about replacing the dialog.tlk with the translation and THEN installing the mod? Those lines edited by the mod should appear in the language you installed, and the new lines still appears in english. Only the work is traify the .d files (although in this case seems to be the .thp files) with WeiDU.

Edited by Ghildrean, 06 June 2008 - 10:10 AM.


#7 Qwinn

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 10:06 AM

But I've seen the dialogfix.thp in the Fixpack WeiDU and is, without a few lines, the entire dialog.


No, it isn't, at all.

A traification of the original dialog.tlk is 6,526k.

dialogfixes.tph is 723k. And quite a few of those bytes are the words "STRING_SET" repeated over 3,000 times.

There really are that many typos, grammar and punctuation mistakes in it, I'm afraid. I promised thousands of fixes to dialogue, and that is indeed the case. But it's nowhere near the whole file. It's maybe just over 10% of it.

The only thing that dialogfixes.tph has that isn't just fixing typos/grammar/punctuation is the spell casting speed fixes, which are pretty minor. So overlaying a translated dialog.tlk over it (via STRING_SETs) isn't going to hurt much of anything. Hopefully the translated material doesn't itself need thousands of corrections :)

All that said, I'll repeat - please, feel free to get whoever has rights to those translations in touch with me, and let's see if we can come up with something so we don't conflict and possibly even integrate them together. I do know spanish myself, and could probably be pretty helpful in keeping the translations current to any new changes.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 06 June 2008 - 10:22 AM.


#8 Qwinn

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 10:18 AM

And what about replacing the dialog.tlk with the translation and THEN installing the mod?


I'll look into it for the next version, since you're telling me translations already exist. For the time being, reversing the install order, and using string_sets to overwrite the dialog.tlk after installing my mods, should work best.

Actual "new lines" added by any of the three mods are minimal, with the exception of the two components I previously mentioned. The most significant change made by the Fixpack is the change of Ratbone's name to Carver, and having two Italian Ratbones in the same area isn't going to break anything, I don't think.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 06 June 2008 - 10:21 AM.


#9 Kaeloree

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 02:37 PM

Split into a new topic. :cheers:

#10 Qwinn

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 11:13 PM

Okay, let's keep this issue alive, and focus discussion on it to this thread.

Someone pointed out to me that there's a "Convert PST to English" mod out there, by Platter. The description is that if you've been playing a "non-english" version, this allows you to revert the game back to english.

That would imply there actually were official translated versions in another language, and I'd assume those just shipped with a different dialog.tlk file. I'd be -very- interested in getting a copy of those. That would motivate me greatly to get the whole traifying and selecting languages at install thing going. Anyone have those available?

And since I haven't dealt with translations before, let me just ask those more familiar with it: does setting it up in that matter essentially just make the dialog.tlk file superfluous? As in, does it basically just mean that I would .traify the entire english .tlk file, put a complete .tra in an "english" directory, and then do the same for other languages? And the game wouldn't even really look at dialog.tlk anymore, but rather just those language directories? If that's the case, then I shouldn't have much trouble working the problem - though I must admit, I don't see what the advantage would really be over just having multiple dialog.tlk files.

I did find this on the wikipedia page about the game:

Torment has been translated to several languages by fans and enthusiasts. A full translation into Hungarian[12] took over four years to develop. The Italian Translation Project took about 15 months translating 1.4 million words in 68,510 dialog sentences.[13] A Korean translation was completed as a one-man effort. A Spanish translation by Clan Dlan, an RPG fan group, was reviewed and reported to be on a professional level.[14] A full Polish translation took almost a year and is considered to be of a very high quality by the Polish gamer community due to its attention to detail, skillful transliteration of the cockney of the game's underclass, and little inside jokes understandable to Poles.


I'll see if I can get in contact with these folks, and see if they're willing to let me implement their translations in my fixpack.

Qwinn

#11 Qwinn

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 12:06 AM

Sigh, I went over to Clan Dlan to try and ask about their spanish translation, but despite registering I don't seem to have any ability to post or send messages there at all :(

If someone does have access to post over at Clan Dlan, this is what I was able to come up with in my pigdin attempts at writing spanish to request cooperating on the issue. If someone could please post it over there for me, I'd appreciate it.

============================================

Hola! Mi nombre es Qwinn. Para empesar, por favor pardoname por mi espanol terrible - yo no he escrito en espanol desde que tuve 7 anos. Yo espero que por lo menos me pueden entender :)

Acabo de crear tres mods grandisimo para Planescape: Torment... Fixpack, Unfinished Business y Qwinn's Tweak Pack. Los puedes encontrar aqui. (la sita es en ingles):

http://www.shsforums...showtopic=34215

Muchas personas me han preguntado acerca de traducciones. Esto es mi primera tentativa de reunir todas las traducciones que existen para el juego, y permitir al usuario a seleccionar el idioma durante la instalacion de el Fixpack.

Hay interes aqui en esta idea? Yo tambien sere interesado en preguntar si alguien pudiera traduccir los pocos cambios que he echo o he agregado (no hay muchos). Yo lo pudiera aser yo mismo, pero... heh... probablemente ya saben que bueno va a salir -eso-.

Si me pudieran repuestar en ingles, yo lo apreciaría... esto es bastante dificil para mi. Una vez más, por favor pardoname por my espanol terrible, pero espero que pudemos trabajar juntos de todos modos.

Aqui esta el tema en las fora de mis mods discutiendo las traducciones. Responda por favor alli :) Muchas gracias por tu tiempo!

http://www.shsforums...mp;#entry398367


Qwinn

#12 -Avantenor-

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 12:20 AM

Clan DLAN ist still active. My ast information was that they are working for the NWN2 Mod Planescape: Purgatorio.

platter's "Convert to English" Patch simply was an english dialog.tlk and the extracted voice dialog for the override.

http://www.rpguides.de/pst/patches.php (the last two ones)

#13 Qwinn

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 12:23 AM

Oooh, you found german ones, cool.

And yeah, I know Clan Dlan is active (I actually think they have the best BG1 portraits out there). I just couldn't get access to post anything or even send PM's, and no idea how I would go about getting such access.

Basically, I'm using Clan Dlan as my test case. If they're amenable to the idea of including all translations in the fixpack, then I'll move on to other translations and see if I can get any further in the effort of collecting them all and including them with the Fixpack. If they say no, then meh, I'll probably just cancel the idea altogether.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 07 June 2008 - 12:24 AM.


#14 Ghildrean

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 01:46 AM

I am a ClanDLAN user and I have asked to one of the original authors, but he doesn't answer me yet.

#15 Qwinn

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 08:57 AM

Okay, thanks Ghildrean. Keep me appraised please :)

Qwinn

#16 -Doctor Who-

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 01:30 AM

Oooh, you found german ones, cool.

And yeah, I know Clan Dlan is active (I actually think they have the best BG1 portraits out there). I just couldn't get access to post anything or even send PM's, and no idea how I would go about getting such access.

Basically, I'm using Clan Dlan as my test case. If they're amenable to the idea of including all translations in the fixpack, then I'll move on to other translations and see if I can get any further in the effort of collecting them all and including them with the Fixpack. If they say no, then meh, I'll probably just cancel the idea altogether.

Qwinn


Please don't give it up. :crying:
It would be great if you could get ZenJu to work on the German translation of the missing lines and implement his "Sprachpatch" (click) into your fix pack. I just looked into his readme and saw that the last update was January 2008. You can contact him by e-mail: zhnmju123 [at] gmx [dot] de

btw: You guys are awesome. Keep up the good work. :D

#17 -Guest-

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 04:27 AM

Some words to the german version, although I don't know all details:

The link to RPGuides where you can get the translation(s) was already posted above (you have to register yourself there before you can download files).

The first unofficial translation was made by "trumpfass" which results in a replacement dialog.tlk (called "beta" version from probably 1999). This patch/dialog.tlk was shipped on a Bonus CD within the german "Black Isle Compilation" from 2002!

In late 2004, "trin" fixed some errors in the patch, in early 2008 "ZenJu" revised this patch, too.

So, the latest/most correct german dialog.tlk is "ZenJus inoffizieller deutscher Sprachpatch".

-HomiSite

#18 Qwinn

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 08:04 AM

Alright. I'll try working with the german version first, then.

Before I bother this guy ZenJus, though, let me ask again for a bit of explanation on how this is handled? This is what I asked a few posts up:

And since I haven't dealt with translations before, let me just ask those more familiar with it: does setting it up in that matter essentially just make the dialog.tlk file superfluous? As in, does it basically just mean that I would .traify the entire english .tlk file, put a complete .tra in an "english" directory, and then do the same for other languages? And the game wouldn't even really look at dialog.tlk anymore, but rather just those language directories? If that's the case, then I shouldn't have much trouble working the problem - though I must admit, I don't see what the advantage would really be over just having multiple dialog.tlk files.


I'm no closer to understanding this, except I'm now thinking that it's just done via replacing the entire dialog.tlk file. I'm coming to this conclusion because I'm looking at a vanilla install of BG2 here and I'm not finding all the various language subdirectories that would indicate different language .tras or anything like that. So I'm surmising that the original CD's have different dialog.tlk's and the proper one is copied at installation time, perhaps?

I'd almost rather have the full dialog.tlk's traified and just work those directly, heh, but it's looking like it doesn't work that way.

Any help on this matter would be appreciated.

Qwinn

#19 -Doctor Who-

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 08:56 AM

I have no clue about this .tra thing, whatever that is, but wouldn't it be simplier to just provide the proper dialog.tlk for each language? You could probably let the setup ask which language it should apply. That would be the easiest way of supporting multiple languages. No need to recognize different versions, just plain old user control. :)



EDIT: (Accidental edit by Qwinn, all changes from the original reverted)

Edited by Qwinn, 09 June 2008 - 09:11 AM.


#20 Qwinn

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 09:10 AM

I have no clue about this .tra thing, whatever that is, but wouldn't it be simplier to just provide the proper dialog.tlk for each language? You could probably let the setup ask which language it should apply. That would be the easiest way of supporting multiple languages. No need to recognize different versions, just plain old user control. :)



*nod* Language will be set by user control during Fixpack install. That's not in question.

I'm just wondering how it's handled behind the scenes during a normal IE game install that supports multiple languages. Does it just copy a different dialog.tlk depending on the language chosen during install? (not mod install, actual game install)? And .tras are only used when applying modifications to those dialog.tlks in mods? That's what it's looking like to me right now, but I'm not really seeing any tutorials on the subject (maybe there's one at G3, but it's still down for me, heh)

Luckily, with PS:T, I don't think we have to worry about the dialogf.tlk file at all, since I think that's used only when the protagonist is female. And though I do recall once seeing some long ago, massive and quite hilarious thread about someone determined to write a mod to make TNO female, I personally have no interest whatsoever in knocking myself out to support the palpable misandry that was evident in that thread.

Qwinn