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Additional Tweaks?


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#1 -Guest-

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 04:58 PM

Are you planning on implementing the various mods found at Sorcerer's Place in later releases? Sorcerer's Place has some of the best mods for PST, and I would really like to see them immortalized in the weidu format, if only for the sake of having options.
*Font Mod by Platter
*Armors and Robes for Planescape: Torment by Razfallow
*G3 Planescape: Torment Tweak Pack //your mod is missing some of their tweaks
*Armor by Platter
*No Battle Music by Platter
*Tome o' Cheats by Platter //your version doesn't have as many options as the original
*Cities Explored by Platter
*Convert Torment to English by Platter
*Power Action Leprechaun Annah
*Easter Egg Morte

And there are also two others from Platter's site not included above:
*Dustman Robe
*Lost Party Members Fix

#2 Qwinn

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 06:02 PM

Lost Party Members shouldn't be necessary, as I applied SKARDAVNELNATE's method of automatically reassembling your party after you've been forcibly disbanded in the 3 parts of the game where that can happen.

I probably will do No Battle Music, that's a pretty good tweak.

I figured a lot of the other tweaks (like Rest Anywhere) were obsoleted by the Tome o' Cheats, which gives you that capability.

I'm honestly not impressed with the "Armor for TNO" type of tweaks. It just feels wrong to put him in armor. If it's just a matter of wanting to improve his AC as a fighter or thief - and I do agree that that much is a reasonable request - I think my tweak to allow TNO to wear the mage AC bracers serves that function.

I've never much seen the purpose for an Explore Areas tweak, all it does is make me miss stuff, but if there's an actual demand for it, sure, I can add it as a tweak.

I also don't care for the Identify All Items tweak, as identifying isn't that much of a chore in this game (your lore skill can get quite high, and Grace's lore skill gets astronomical), plus in some cases the unidentified description makes for interesting reading that's different from the identified description, and that tweak would actually remove that content.

As I mention in the readme, I never even looked at Platter's version of tome of cheats. I'll take a look to see what the differences are.

Me saying I'm not interested or don't care for a given tweak doesn't mean I'll never do them, I certainly will do them if there's -actual demand- for them on a basis other than "please redo everything anyone else ever did in WeiDU whether it's actually good or not", but I'd prefer having something more than just that to go on. My saying I don't care for them does mean, though, that it's lower priority, and actual demand for a specific feature will go a long way to raising it up on the priority list.

Qwinn

#3 Qwinn

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 10:32 PM

Okay, looked into it some more.

For version 2 of the tweak pack, I'll try to get at least these tweaks added:

No battle music
Identify all items (it's simple enough to do)
Explore all areas (ditto)
Add the "Give high level spells" options to the tome of cheats

Any other mods in particular you really want me to redo?

*Convert Torment to English* will actually hopefully be obsoleted by me making the game capable of using .tra files for any translation. I'm actually mostly intrigued by the notion that there were "non-english" versions of Planescape available in the first place. I wasn't aware there were any such official versions. Did they ship different officially translated dialog.tlk files in other languages? If so, I'd love to get my hands on those dialog.tlk files that shipped with those versions, that would make me much more motivated to do the whole traify thing.

Some of those mods you listed - like the alternate font fix, or the "Leprechaun Annah" mod, I have to be honest, I'm a little hesitant to do because I'd have no input in them... I'd basically just be doing a copy of the files, same as installing the original mod would do. Before I do something like that, I'd prefer to let a little time pass to see if the release of these mods gets Platter's attention and he can give or deny permission for me to use them. I really directly rip off very very little from any of the previous modders in my 3 mods, I reimplement just about all of it in my own way... but implementing those tweaks would be on a whole nother level of just taking stuff without permission that I'm not yet comfortable doing. So, let's give Platter and the other authors a chance to get into contact with me before I go any further down that road.

Qwinn

#4 Ghildrean

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 01:36 AM

Torment is only available in english. All of those translations are unofficial, made by fans.

EDIT: Well, I think that polish language is official, but I'm not sure.

Edited by Ghildrean, 07 June 2008 - 01:40 AM.


#5 -Avantenor-

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 03:29 AM

There was a official german release. The last thing they could do since Guido Henkel was producer of the game (he's the man behind the mask of the nameless one on the box cover). ;)

The polish release was made by CD Project IIRC.


Explore Area: I would appreciate that Tweak. It's simply that it looks better when you use widescreen mod. It's definitely an eye candy thing, and I know the game for so long that there isn't anything that could surprise with FoW enabled.

http://www.rockpaper...08/pstlarge.jpg

#6 -Guest-

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 06:20 AM

The point is, though, that there are so few mods for Torment that all of them could be included in one package without as much relative effort as for BG. I myself and not even going to use all of them at once, but just like having plenty of options. Could you contact the authors if you're unsure of their reaction?

Particularly, the most important ones are the ones made by Platter and Black Isle. The Armor Mod made by Platter is nice because it allows you to change your appearance to look like an armored hulk or even a mecha using in-game sprites, and the Dustman Robe mod is nice for those players who plan to join the Dustman faction. The Razfallow armor mod doesn't change anyone's appearance, though, which may make you more inclined toward it. But the two mods to change appearance of Annah and Morte were made by Black Isle, and by far have the highest priority.

Also, could you add the option for us to use either Platter's Tome of Cheats or your version? There's no need to merge them. The ability to get it at the beginning is optional, right?

Lastly, the widescreen mod makes a great companion to your packs (especially with "explore all areas"), and I recommend everyone download both.

#7 -Guest-

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 06:21 AM

Oh, and the font mod makes the game text easier to read, and also places it inline with the subtitles some characters have over their heads.

#8 Qwinn

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 07:31 AM

Could you contact the authors if you're unsure of their reaction?


I already tried, before I started this whole project. I couldn't get in touch with them. Read the Fixpack readme FAQ section for details.

Explore Area: I would appreciate that Tweak. It's simply that it looks better when you use widescreen mod. It's definitely an eye candy thing, and I know the game for so long that there isn't anything that could surprise with FoW enabled.


Heh, I see! That explains the demand for it :) Sure, I'll try to get that one in the tweak pack soon.

But the two mods to change appearance of Annah and Morte were made by Black Isle, and by far have the highest priority.


Really? I didn't know that. That changes things - sure, I'll package them with the tweak pack then.

Oh, and the font mod makes the game text easier to read, and also places it inline with the subtitles some characters have over their heads.


Indeed. Let me ask, because I know little about font handling - is this something Platter would've actually designed or modified extensively in order to function himself? Or would the files involved just be something freeware available widely on the internet?

EDIT: Wait, are you saying that this was just a copy of the .bam file used for the floating text, copied over the bam for the dialogue font? If -that's- all it is, then sure, I have no problem redoing that. Though there is a .MOS file too, that seems to be a custom replacement of the dialog box itself. not sure where that would've originated.

Also, could you add the option for us to use either Platter's Tome of Cheats or your version? There's no need to merge them. The ability to get it at the beginning is optional, right?


No, I have no intent to do this. There'll be one version of the Tome of Cheats available with my mod. I'll add the give-items functions, and if there's some other functionality or aesthetic that they consider preferable in Platter's version, just let me know and I'll consider the change.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 07 June 2008 - 07:56 AM.


#9 Qwinn

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 08:14 AM

Okay, with the font mod: Yes, the actual .BAM file that represents the "new" font appears to just be a copy of the .BAM for the font used in floating text. As such, I have no problem at all in using it - or rather, just recopying the floating text .bam over the dialogue .bam - without permission.

There's also a "WWMOSDP.MOS" file, which is the graphic of the dialog box itself. It seems to just be the original, but with the background behind the dialogue darkened. That probably does more to make it more "readable" than the font change itself, but. Anyways. That probably took more work on his part, work that I'm not sure I'd know how to duplicate. If someone with more experience with paint tools is willing to redo that aspect of it, taking that file from the original game files and darkening the background in the dialog box itself, and would be willing to upload it and lend me their permission to use it, with full credit, I'd certainly be willing to go with that (and I will still credit Platter for coming up with the concept and implementing it anyways, as well).

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 07 June 2008 - 08:16 AM.


#10 Qwinn

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 08:35 AM

Incidentally, I think I ought to explain something regarding the intent and motivations behind this entire PS:T project.

If you are thinking that the purpose behind this project is simply to WeiDUize and consolidate the work of modders from years past, I'm afraid you have misinterpreted what this is all about. That is not the case. This is a work in it's own right... which does attempt to address the problems addressed by other mods, but which I often do in my own way, and which also deals with and addresses a ton of new issues on it's own.

For the record: I do not feel any obligation to handle things the same way previous modders did - in fact, I often use my own judgment and handle things differently. I also fix many, many things they did not (in fact, I'm pretty sure the number of bugs I address outnumbers that of any of the other individual previous mods, though probably not all of them combined - yet. Pretty close though.). In cases where I decided to do things differently from previous modders, I do not feel any obligation to provide an option to do it the "old" way as opposed to my own method.

This is not just a consolidation of previous work. This is an original work - with credit extended where the work is similar or redundant to a previous work, and the previous modder deserves credit for discovering the issue and implementing a solution - but still original.

I can appreciate that folks would like to have a one-stop shop for all their mods. And to the extent that's reasonable and doesn't involve -really- ripping off other people's work, I'm willing to accomodate that desire as much as possible. I just want to make it understood that the mission of this mod is not simply consolidating and weiduizing other people's work, and I do not consider a failure to incorporate someone else's work exactly as they implemented it to be a failure of the overall mission.

Okay. Carry on :)

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 07 June 2008 - 08:55 AM.


#11 -Guest-

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 01:41 PM

The Alternative Encounter, Junk Portal, Portal Lens, and Worldmap mods from the AIP Extra folder might be nice to include, because they address problems with the game. In fact, any of the files from the AIP extras would be nice.

Oh, and for the background, just replace everything with black. That's how Platter said he made it.

#12 -Guest-

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 01:47 PM

I checked, and you don't need the Armor/Robes by Razfallow, as it is already weidu.

#13 Qwinn

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 01:49 PM

Alright, releasing version 2.0 of the Tweak Pack to address most of the requests in this thread.

Power Action Leprechaun Annah

Easter Egg Morte

Explore All Areas (and yes, that's ALL areas, not just city maps. Since Fog of War doesn't seem to play well with G3's Widescreen mod, figured that'd be the best thing to do. If this mod doesn't explore an area for you, it's because the unmodded script for the area is non-existent/broken, so I'd like to hear about it. Sandoz's room is one I already know about, and will be fixed in next Fixpack version.)

Rest Anywhere

Identify All Items

Use Floating Text Font Everywhere (does not darken the dialogue background as Platter's Font mod does)

No Battle Music


That's enough for a version 2, I think.

Adding more stuff to the tome of cheats can come another day (and honestly, it's low priority for me... I'm not a big fan of cheating or enabling cheating in the first place, the main reason it exists is for helping modders test, and the current version does just fine for that.)

Will create another thread for the official announcement.

Qwinn

#14 Qwinn

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 02:03 PM

Sorry, didn't see those last two posts when I made mine.

The Alternative Encounter, Junk Portal, Portal Lens, and Worldmap mods from the AIP Extra folder might be nice to include, because they address problems with the game. In fact, any of the files from the AIP extras would be nice.


Alternative encounter is basically a stand-alone mod of SKARDAVNELNATE's, as far as I'm concerned... we hashed that one out for ages over on the GameFaq boards. In the end I didn't see a need for it, and I'm content with letting that be a perk of using his pack (which is still being maintained, and I have no intent of attempting to deliberately deprecate it altogether with my mods).

I don't see a real need for the junk portal "fix" - I don't think needing to keep it as a key is broken or all that much of an inconvenience. Worldmap removes travel time from the world map - don't see a real reason for that one either.

The Portal Lens thing, I'm actually going to consider a Fix, as the description actually says "Ragpicker's Square". That'll go into my next Fixpack version.

Okay, back to releasing 2.0 :)

I checked, and you don't need the Armor/Robes by Razfallow, as it is already weidu.


That's excellent news, I really had no interest in going there. Thanks for checking for me :)

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 07 June 2008 - 02:04 PM.


#15 the bigg

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 05:13 PM

If this mod doesn't explore an area for you, it's because the unmodded script for the area is non-existent/broken, so I'd like to hear about it.

Wow, more BG2UB vs. suinoraB -style bullshit, I can't wait :)
Italian users: help test the Stivan NPC!

Author or Co-Author: WeiDU - Widescreen - Generalized Biffing - Refinements - TB#Tweaks - IWD2Tweaks - TB#Characters - Traify Tool - Some mods that I won't mention in public
Maintainer: Semi-Multi Clerics - Nalia Mod - Nvidia Fix
Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types - Stutter Investigator

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git.

#16 Qwinn

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 07:18 AM

Wow, more BG2UB vs. suinoraB -style bullshit, I can't wait


Que?

Qwinn

#17 Daulmakan

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:40 AM

Wow, more BG2UB vs. suinoraB -style bullshit, I can't wait

Que?

I think it has something to do with this.

#18 Qwinn

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 09:56 AM

Ah I see.

I don't really think something like that will arise - in fact, the reason I'm asking for reports in the way I am is precisely so I don't fix something that doesn't need to be fixed. Let me explain:

Just about every area script for every area in PS:T (and definitely all the ones addressed by the previous Explore City Maps tweaks) has the following bit of code (modified for that specific area, of course):

IF
  Exists("Nameless")
  !GlobalGT("AR0706_Visited","GLOBAL",0)
THEN
  RESPONSE #100
	SetGlobal("AR0706_Visited","GLOBAL",1)
	Continue()
END

This keeps track of every area that the player has visited at least once. What my Explore mod does is look for the SetGlobal and tacks on an "Explore()" to it.

Does every single area script have this bit of code - or for that matter, have an area script attached at all? Not a chance. Quite a few are missing one. But all the major ones have it. The ones most likely to be missing it are ones that don't really need it - those tiny little hovels you'll find around the Hive, for example.

I could easily go through and make sure every single area has that script. Or, I could choose not to for the sake of not fixing what doesn't need to be broken, because in most cases those areas don't really -need- to be tracked. A good argument could be made either way, based on the argument presented in that thread.

In this particular case, I decided to handle it this way: since most of those one-room hovels won't -need- to have an "Explore()" added to the script because they're so tiny that there's no fog of war present anyway, it doesn't really require a global attack to fix the "problem". If someone finds an area large enough that fog of war shows up, and doesn't have that bit of script code attached to it, it probably should. But by making the request I did, people can report to me which areas are large enough to actually get a fog of war and which must be missing their area script in order to do so. Those larger areas probably deserve a second look. Areas so small that they don't even generate a fog of war probably don't really need an area script either. But if it is large enough to generate a fog of war, then it should be fixed - precisely so we can get rid of it.

(Note: It will help catch some other bugs too. For example, Sandoz's room (AR0511) -does- have that bit of code - except it sets the variable for the Drowned Nations (AR1400). Heh. Don't ask me why. The way I coded my explore mod, it will NOT get the Explore() tacked on. I am fixing that script in the next version of Fixpack, because that is clearly, unequivocally bugged. I do definitely draw the line before that... if someone's going to write a mod depending on a bug that sets the "I visited Drowned Nations" flag to get set whenever you enter Sandoz's room in the Foundry about 4 Wards away - well, that's their problem.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 08 June 2008 - 10:06 AM.


#19 --Platter--

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 04:35 PM

The armor mod is a clunky old thing thrown together quickly like "HEY TNO with armor!"

I have the dialog.tlk for the French, Italian, Polish, Russian and Spanish versions. I guess the Spanish one is the clandlan translation. I can't guarantee that I didn't get the others from another website, though I'm pretty sure they're the official translations just given to me/uploaded by owners of those versions. I have the necessary font BAM replacements for the Polish and Russian versions as well.

http://rapidshare.co...2/lang.rar.html

#20 -Guest-

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 12:48 PM

I think that the rest anywhere tweak could be a little less offensive to the purists if it was implemented like baldurs gate, that had a random chance of enemies attacking. Actually something like that ridiculous micro managing old german rpg series Blades of Arkania where you could set watches (with related skill advantage) would appeal more to the purist type.



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