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How do you make a great LS Consular?


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#1 Klorox

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 02:30 PM

How many levels of your initial class is best? Do you bother putting any points into STR? What about INT?

I know I'd start with 14 DEX and CON, and at least a 14 in WIS and CHA (actually, definitely higher).

What class is the best starter class? How high do you go? I was thinking 4 levels of Scout, as it grants the most feats and the best base saves.
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#2 Dark-Mage

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 02:36 PM

I've havnt played around with the engine or tried to power game but at a guess I'd say either 4-5 levels of scoundrel for a more skills based character or 4-5 levels of Scout for a balance between skills/feats. I believe scounts are the middle ground between skills and combat, plus they get implant feats for free (althought the scoundral gets sneak attack whicn may give your jedi a little extra melee potential)

Have you looked at the Sentinal jedi class instead? They get some nice abilities (immunities to various dark side powers if I remember correctly) and is supposedly the best jedi class in terms of overall balance between the force and combat. Doesnt excel in one area but is good in both.

EDIT: Actually, I've just been looking over a character building guide over on game FAQs and it appears alot of what I said might be inaccurate :| Knew it had been a while since I last played but didnt think I was that far off lol.

Edited by Dark-Mage, 24 June 2008 - 02:49 PM.


#3 -zaalbar is awesome!!!-

-zaalbar is awesome!!!-
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Posted 25 June 2008 - 04:01 AM

i would say the best is to go with 4 levels of scout. u get more feats than a soldier of that level, u get goood saving throws wich will only help later on. u want to limit levels early becuz u need the force points n powers from a lot of jedi levels.

u could also go to level 5, since u get another feat, but feats arent needed with counselors. u need powers wich is why i say only 4 levels.

i read about a dude who went with only 2 scoundrel levels and got 18 levels of counselor, but i dont think i could survive only being level 2. but thats still nice, becuz u get the defensive bonus and persuasion is great on taris.

as for intelligence, either go with 14 so u can get more skillz when u become a jedi, or only go with an 8. i personally like 14 becuz u will probably use a lot of skills and take 2 combat characters later. i like juhani and either bastila or carnderous (he makes a great melee guy) or best of all zaalbar (he's awesome!!!).

#4 -zaalbar is awesome!!!-

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 04:04 AM

btw a dark side counselor is so much cooler and better. u will really need 2 good melee figters to make ur counselor great becuz u will have to stun and stop ur enemies. a dark side one can choke them n kill them with ligtning.

also, make sure u build carth into a melee fighter right away. hes better with guns, but u cant afford 2b targetted, esp. early on.

#5 Klorox

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 06:04 PM

Thanks for all the input you two. Keep it coming!

This is just a preliminary build idea:

I want a caster LS Consular. I was thinking of this stat distribution:

S 8
D 14
C 14
I 14
W 14
Ch 14

Put 1 point into CHA (since I get +3 with LS mastery) and 4 into WIS as I level up. Go with Scout/Consular. I don't know if I should go 2,4,or 5 levels, but 5 is the highest I'd go.

I'm thinking of using the 14 INT so that I can be the primary skills guy on my team. This would allow me to use Bastila and Juhani for combat (since they have no skills). I'd never need to use the other skill-monkeys again. :)

I figure a 14 INT, along with banking some points before switching will allow me to get a high rank in Repair, Computer Use, Demolitions, and Persuasion. Do you really need any other skills? Not in my opinion. :) BTW, Awareness is a sweet skill, but it's one Bastila maxes out easily.

What about power choices for a LS casting Consular? Any and all suggestions are welcome.

TIA
Baruk Khazd! Khazd ai-mnu!

Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin

#6 Bluenose

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:53 AM

Thanks for all the input you two. Keep it coming!

This is just a preliminary build idea:

I want a caster LS Consular. I was thinking of this stat distribution:

S 8
D 14
C 14
I 14
W 14
Ch 14

Put 1 point into CHA (since I get +3 with LS mastery) and 4 into WIS as I level up. Go with Scout/Consular. I don't know if I should go 2,4,or 5 levels, but 5 is the highest I'd go.

I'm thinking of using the 14 INT so that I can be the primary skills guy on my team. This would allow me to use Bastila and Juhani for combat (since they have no skills). I'd never need to use the other skill-monkeys again. :)

I figure a 14 INT, along with banking some points before switching will allow me to get a high rank in Repair, Computer Use, Demolitions, and Persuasion. Do you really need any other skills? Not in my opinion. :) BTW, Awareness is a sweet skill, but it's one Bastila maxes out easily.

What about power choices for a LS casting Consular? Any and all suggestions are welcome.

TIA


Go Scout 5/Consular 15. That's my recommended split for any combination that doesn't involve Scoundrel. The main reason is that you get feats at 5th level in all the non-Jedi classes, and at 15th level in all the jedi classes.

I would suggest 10 STR, 12 CON. It isn't much of a change, but the extra VPs aren't that useful for you and a STR penalty will have a slight effect on every damage roll - which adds up with Master Flurry and Master Speed. The 14 Int is a good idea, and you'll have the class skills to make it effective. I would not raise WIS though - compared to the bonus feats you get as a Consular which give +6 in total to the difficulty of saving against your powers, +2 from an investment of 4/5 Wis raises isn't that valuable, and there are items which raise WIS available anyway. Put the extra points into DEX instead, for better Reflex saves, better DV, and if something I'm trying to test is right weapon finesse is built in.

Good feats. Toughness, if you're worried about VP, is worth taking a level of. Flurry is worth taking both extra levels of (you get one as a Scout), and Implant 3 (you'll get 1&2 as a Scout bonus. I also recommend Jedi Defence at more than the minimum - you'll spend a lot of time throwing force powers and less in melee, this gives you a fair chance to damage enemies shooting at you. You might even consider Conditioning - your Scout levels give you good saves, but you don't have the Sentinel's immunities to help here.

The best powers to pick are harder to call, as it depends on your preferred style. If you go Consular 15 as I recommend then you'll have 19 Powers. Cure/Heal are obvious and essential - even perhaps for DS characters. Speed 1-3 are also must-haves. Force Push/Whirlwind/Wave are pretty useful, the only non-DS way to do damage to groups of enemies, but it's possible to take the Force Lightning chain without it crippling you if you don't dislike the DS connotation. Stun/Stasis/Stasis Field are awesome, even more so for a Scoundrel/Consular (+3d6 damage to a helpless target? Yes please! And Master Speed is the cherry on top :D ). The various Valor 1-3 powers help your whole group in a lot of ways, and are probably worth picking up, though the Shield ones are functionally more valuable to an individual. I'd also want Force Immunity. Throw Lightsaber can be pretty useful, though probably only one level - it saves using a Force Wave against a single target. Beyond that I'm struggling to think of really useful powers - which is one reason I don't often go past 15 levels in a jedi class, there just aren't as many I like compared to Kotor2.

Back from the brink.

Like RPGs? Like Star Wars? Think combining the two would be fun? Read Darths and Droids, and discover the line "Jar Jar, you're a genius".

These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.


#7 Klorox

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 04:56 AM

Hey thanks a lot, that's some great advice!

My only thing is that since I plan on avoiding melee whenever possible, is it really a good investment for me to go with improving Flurry (esp. since a Consular gets so few feats anyway)?

The reason for the initial preference of a 14 CON and 8 STR is because I don't plan on getting into a spot where my STR is needed, and even plan on holding a blaster for when I'm not casting. CON not only affects VP, but it factors into Fort. Saves (although I must admit that I do not know how important the Fort. Saves actually are).

I have to ask about not improving WIS. I'm not criticizing, but I'm very curious as to why a caster wouldn't improve a stat that helps casting.

TIA
Baruk Khazd! Khazd ai-mnu!

Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin

#8 Bluenose

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 06:52 AM

Hey thanks a lot, that's some great advice!

My only thing is that since I plan on avoiding melee whenever possible, is it really a good investment for me to go with improving Flurry (esp. since a Consular gets so few feats anyway)?

The reason for the initial preference of a 14 CON and 8 STR is because I don't plan on getting into a spot where my STR is needed, and even plan on holding a blaster for when I'm not casting. CON not only affects VP, but it factors into Fort. Saves (although I must admit that I do not know how important the Fort. Saves actually are).

I have to ask about not improving WIS. I'm not criticizing, but I'm very curious as to why a caster wouldn't improve a stat that helps casting.

TIA


I think Flurry remains a good choice. Yes, you don't have many feats as a Consular, and you'll want to spend at least three on your fighting style of choice (Duelling or Two-weapon, and I seriosly suggest not going two-weapon). The things is, you don't always have a wide enough range of powers to avoid melee entirely. If you're on say Tatooine as your first planet after Dantooine and you get involved in a fight on the dunes (with Wraid, because you need the money, or Sand People, because they suprised you) then you won't have Stasis Field or Force Wave available at that level. This is a good time to have more than force abilities available, particularly since these are the levels where you can run low on force points.

It's a fairly similar piece of reasoning which makes me suggest 10 STR. Sometimes you really can't do without it, particularly early on in the game, as you just won't be capable enough to do everything with force powers and grenades. Even more so in this case because of Taris. The slight advantage in attack bonus/damage with melee weapons is enough to make up for the small number of VPs you're giving up IMO.

With WIS, I think it doesn't give quite such a good return as DEX. The former gives you a few more force points, a better Will save, and depending on when you take the increases and which force powers you select makes them more likely to succeed. The latter increases your defence, your Reflex save (weaker in a Consular than Will) and I believe helps your attack bonus with lightsaber - I know it shouldn't without lightsaber finesse but that seems to be a built in effect where you get the better of your STR/DEX bonus on attack rolls. It's a tough choice but I've been able to get Stasis onto a terentatek with a high-dex consular and it's only marginally more likely with a WIS-based one. Putting two into each isn't a bad compromise.

Incidentally, I forgot Force Persuade before, but that's certainly something I'd recommend for those situations where talking to people isn't helping.

Back from the brink.

Like RPGs? Like Star Wars? Think combining the two would be fun? Read Darths and Droids, and discover the line "Jar Jar, you're a genius".

These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.


#9 Dark-Mage

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:15 PM

Advanced Lightsabre throw could be an option if force powers are going to be your only means of dealing damage as although it might not do as much damage as certain other jedi powers - the key bonus is that it does not grant a saving throw to resist. The damage is consistent.

Also, Bluenose's advice on str/dex over con/wis might come in handy in the final fight given that you will be alone and thus melee combat might not be totally avoidable. Towards that end, maxing out dueling, two ranks in furry and master jedi speed could become very effective.

Another thing, I believe you said your consular is going to be holding a blaster? This might not be the best decision (though i can see your logic) as holding a lightsabre will enable you tyo deflect blasters etc.

Edited by Dark-Mage, 29 June 2008 - 04:19 PM.


#10 Bluenose

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 12:55 AM

Advanced Lightsabre throw could be an option if force powers are going to be your only means of dealing damage as although it might not do as much damage as certain other jedi powers - the key bonus is that it does not grant a saving throw to resist. The damage is consistent.

Also, Bluenose's advice on str/dex over con/wis might come in handy in the final fight given that you will be alone and thus melee combat might not be totally avoidable. Towards that end, maxing out dueling, two ranks in furry and master jedi speed could become very effective.

Another thing, I believe you said your consular is going to be holding a blaster? This might not be the best decision (though i can see your logic) as holding a lightsabre will enable you tyo deflect blasters etc.


On that last point, if you spend a feat to advance your Jedi Defence that increases the likelihood that you'll deflect shots back towards their origin, which for a Consular who isn't going to be in melee much is a useful way to contribute damage to a fight.

Thinking about feats, if you go with my suggested Scout 5/Consular 15 you'll get a total of 10 - 4 from the Scout levels and 6 from Consular. That's enough to master your preferred fighting style (Duelling 1-3); advance your Implant to level 3; take Toughness; take Flurry to 2 and Critical Strike to 2, or advance one of those to 3 and the other at 1; advance your lightsabre defence to level 2; and have one feat to spare for Conditioning if you think your saves aren't quite enough, or to advance something else you think useful.

Back from the brink.

Like RPGs? Like Star Wars? Think combining the two would be fun? Read Darths and Droids, and discover the line "Jar Jar, you're a genius".

These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.


#11 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 01:02 AM

Also, Bluenose's advice on str/dex over con/wis might come in handy in the final fight given that you will be alone and thus melee combat might not be totally avoidable. Towards that end, maxing out dueling, two ranks in furry and master jedi speed could become very effective.

Yeah, but the bad basic attack bonus is going to hurt you quite much. Besides this, you can use force lightning the big bad wolf to death, but first you have to be able to disable his self-healing which is easy with light side consular...
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#12 Dark-Mage

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 04:29 AM

Also, Bluenose's advice on str/dex over con/wis might come in handy in the final fight given that you will be alone and thus melee combat might not be totally avoidable. Towards that end, maxing out dueling, two ranks in furry and master jedi speed could become very effective.

Yeah, but the bad basic attack bonus is going to hurt you quite much. Besides this, you can use force lightning the big bad wolf to death, but first you have to be able to disable his self-healing which is easy with light side consular...
Spoiler


That's true but the improved dex would contribute to his AC and I suppose that every little helps given how hard that big bad wolf is gonna be hitting. That certain niffty little robe will help improve his wisdom by quite abit as well so his force powers should be plenty hard to resist in that last fight anyways.

#13 -Kay-

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 02:30 PM

*minor, kinda pointless spoilers for how to win final fight* when fighting the big bad wolf you can use drain life on the self healing to heal yourself like said wolf does.



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