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Valen Redemption


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#1 -Duffman-

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 07:37 PM

Maybe redemption should only be an addon for the mod. I happen to like the idea of redemption but I see that there are those that disagree with me. That's why I think it should be an option... You don't have to have it but it should be availible to those that do want redemption for Valen.

#2 Andyr

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 04:36 PM

I don't think a good character would take her on, so wouldn't have the chance for redemption.
An evil character would not redeem her, nor I guess a neutral one.

Who's to say she even wants redemption? Or that it's better to be good than evil?

Still if you wanted one you could write an addon mod for it or something.
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#3 Tancred

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 10:34 AM

I see the possibility of ´redeeming´ Valen as being about as likely as ´redeeming´ Korgan.

#4 Grim Squeaker

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 11:46 AM

I see the possibility of ´redeeming´ Valen as being about as likely as ´redeeming´ Korgan.

Korgan was originally going to be redeemed by Mazzy in ToB...

Edited by Grim Squeaker, 05 June 2005 - 03:17 PM.

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#5 Andyr

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 12:05 PM

Urgh.....
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#6 Grim Squeaker

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 12:34 PM

Urgh.....

Haven't you read the attempted flirts from Korgan?

Edited by Grim Squeaker, 05 June 2005 - 03:17 PM.

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#7 Andyr

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 12:47 PM

I don't think I've ever kept Korgan and Mazzy in the same party into ToB, so no.....
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#8 Grim Squeaker

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 01:25 PM

I don't think I've ever kept Korgan and Mazzy in the same party into ToB, so no.....

Neither have I. I read it in Infinity Explorer.

Edited by Grim Squeaker, 05 June 2005 - 12:27 PM.

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#9 Andyr

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 01:31 PM

This is going a bit OT, so I'll stop now, but will have a look with NI now (and probably PM you saying urgh again). B)

In general though I think the idea of redemptions isn't that great when done on a large scale.

How about Valen corrupting someone?
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#10 Brannin Vael

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 09:24 PM

Actually, I think the idea of redemption for Valen is plausible. The concept and process of redemption could take root in anyone who suddenly entertains doubts about their current 'evil' path. For Valen this might happen when she is thoroughly rejected by her mistress Bodhi and then Bodhi is killed by the PC. Valen, having been originally seduced by the vampiric path, suddenly is catapulted into an awarness of its true emptiness and hollow promises.

Most likely, this small spark of questioning and yearning would have to be carefully fanned into any kind of flame of desire. If it went unrecognized and was stomped on early then it is possible that Valen would become even further inured in the illusion of her immortality and power. Possibly coming to resent the PC for the power and threat he/she represents to herself. Even Valen is smart enough to see that loyalty, in her case with Bodhi, has a high price and little return.

It comes down to desire and choice. Will Valen continue to identify with her vampiric instincts, as strong as they are? Or will the desire for her soul lead her down a path of redemption and rebirth?

#11 Schatten

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Posted 07 August 2003 - 10:21 AM

i think valen wants to be a vampire and has fun being one. so redemption isnt a good idea imo.
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#12 -Jerr-

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 05:37 PM

Quote:
"How about Valen corrupting someone?"

Corruption is easy, its simply giving in, and to stop caring.

Redemption is the difficult path. Which is why it is the more interesting of the two. I would really like seeing a Valen Redemption/Romance, I think it would have to be very difficult and complex to be honest to the character. And yes it would have to involve a good character taking Valen into the party for some reason. But could ultimately be very enjoyable and rewarding if done well.

#13 Sker

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 10:11 AM

Quote:
            "How about Valen corrupting someone?"

Corruption is easy, its simply giving in, and to stop caring.

Redemption is the difficult path. Which is why it is the more interesting of the two. I would really like seeing a Valen Redemption/Romance, I think it would have to be very difficult and complex to be honest to the character. And yes it would have to involve a good character taking Valen into the party for some reason. But could ultimately be very enjoyable and rewarding if done well.

I disagree with the idea that corruption is easy. The result may be easy to describe, but there is a path to corruption, just like there is a path to redemption, involving a change of attitudes. I see corrupted people as those who feel helpless and needing some control in their life, those who are angry and seeking vengeance beyond the limits accepted by society or those who lust after power without regard to other people. Also, to act in a corrupted manner, a person has to get to the point where they either don't care about the consequences or think that the consequences can't be enforced. Enough of the psycho-drivel...

In the case of Valen, she has the power in her to corrupt an individual to the point where they would embrace vampirism. In various cases she could exploit NPC or even PC personality weaknesses/crises to either embitter them against civilization or suggest the power that vampirism would give. The PC's input, reputation, alignment, and charisma would, of course, have a large bearing on the development of NPC attitudes.

I would like to see Valen work on Anomen (after failing his test for knighthood), Valygar (this conversion should be really tough), Arie (Yes, I realize that Valen and Arie can never be in the same party but I see her as an individual who's anger at society and lack of personal power could be twisted.) and Edwin (He's so power-hungry, I don't think he'd take much convincing to become a vampire. In fact, the PC may have to convince him not to accept vampirism). I don't see any of the other native NPCs as candidates of this level of corruption (although vampirism may improve the personality of some of the NPCs B) ).

#14 khay

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 03:27 PM

Baldur`s Gate II is a role-playing game; such as the protagonist, the well known CHARNAME, should be allowed to have options. As in s/he should have the option of redeeming Valen if s/he wants this and sees it fit. You don`t like the idea -- don`t redeem her! Encourage her evil deeds, poison her mind with darksome thoughts, make her scream for more blood.

But do allow those who wish it to redeem her. After all it removes some linearity from the game and, call me an idjit, but non-linearity is quite a pleasant attribute of this game. Why not expand it?

Redemption, as emphasized by Brannin Vael, is a plausible happening; and so is corruption, which, after all, is the exact opposite of redemption. Valen tries to corrupt CHARNAME, whereas CHARNAME either accepts or rejects her ideas; if the second option arises, the possibility of redemption is pretty much present.

All of this would require quite a bit of work, though.

#15 -kinneer-

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Posted 23 February 2004 - 02:40 AM

The player should have the option, but we should also consider if Valen herself wants to be redemed. She may wants to remain a vampire.

This is not that different to wanting to corrupted Keldorn or Nalia, for example.

#16 Krimmy

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 12:12 PM

Edit: changed my mind, after thinking further

I think an add-on wouldn't really be needed since those that wouldn't redeem her won't, kinda eliminates the need for it to be an add-on doesn't it?

I think if the PC wants to romance her, redemption should be an option if no romance then no redemption. I think without the romance they'd be no reason for her wanting to be redeemed.

Edited by Krimmy, 17 May 2004 - 12:23 PM.


#17 Thorium Dragon

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 10:51 AM

I just gave some more thought to how the possibility and mechanism of redemption would be handled in the Valen Expansion and re-read this thread in the process of brainstorming.

I don't believe romance should be prerequisite to redemption but one of a few paths the PC could conceivably take. Romance would invoke powerful emotions but how they are handled would be the question. Is it possible a romance would impede an effort to redeem her?

A number of possibilities exist. I'll have to consider this further.

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#18 Thorium Dragon

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 07:25 PM

After a number of edits and rewrites of the redemption-related dialog, I've finally produced something I'm happy with.

The final verdict on Valen's possible redemption: It is possible but very difficult.

For the PC to pull it off, certain conditions must be met and many situations will have to be handled with absolute precision.

I won't give any details- this is meant to be a difficult path meant for highly motivated players.

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#19 Togashi Renshi

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 06:39 AM

Is this like as difficult as redeeming Irenicus in Redemption? Or is it easier (please say yes, please say yes, please say yes, please say yes, please say yes.....)?

Edited by Thorium Dragon, 14 June 2005 - 04:14 AM.


#20 Thorium Dragon

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 12:19 PM

Is this like as difficult as redeeming Irenicus in Redemption? Or is it easier (please say yes, please say yes, please say yes, please say yes, please say yes.....)?

I haven't played Redemption yet, so I don't know.

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