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Valen Redemption


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#21 Krimmy

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 10:55 AM

Didn't even remember this thread...

Anyway, thinking about it now, my statement above is from a good path point of view (always for me), so if someone wanted the evil path I wouldn't think they'd go for redemption and would just slave her out as Bhodi did- although that might not be possible...

What reason would an evil player redeem her? I can't think of one... hmm... did you?

The reason I said before that a redemption should depend on a successful romance was from my good path point of view that "love" would be the only thing powerful enough to make her want redemption or at least move her down the path of redemption. I think you understood but I wanted to make it clear just in case.

The romances are what keep me playing this game, who doesn't like romance?

I like that her redemption will be tough, which means I'll probably have to play several games in parallel to get that outcome :thumb:

Edited by Krimmy, 16 June 2005 - 03:34 PM.


#22 -Guest-

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Posted 14 June 2005 - 08:25 AM

When Valen is redeemed wouldn't she just be a normal fighter/thief or whatever class you picked her as? Doesn't it somewhat defeat the point of having a vampire?

Edited by Thorium Dragon, 14 June 2005 - 08:33 AM.


#23 Thorium Dragon

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Posted 14 June 2005 - 08:42 AM

When Valen is redeemed wouldn't she just be a normal fighter/thief or whatever class you picked her as? Doesn't it somewhat defeat the point of having a vampire?

If you are of that opinion, you don't have to take that road.

I imagine others would be interested from a role-playing perspective or just plain, old curiosity.

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#24 Chooch

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Posted 14 June 2005 - 09:28 PM

So if she is redeemed she is no longer a vampire? <_<

I thought that by being redeemed she was no longer evil? Then again I think you did mention previously that you where trying to stay away from good and evil.

Does vampires always have to be evil?

#25 Thorium Dragon

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 03:19 AM

So if she is redeemed she is no longer a vampire?

I thought that by being redeemed she was no longer evil? Then again I think you did mention previously that you where trying to stay away from good and evil.

Does vampires always have to be evil?

Answering those questions would blow the whole story of her redemption, so I'll have to say "no comment" with regards to all of that.

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#26 Oni

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 11:12 PM

Does vampires always have to be evil?



I'd say no. Read the Ravenloft novel 'Vampire of the Mists' (by Christie Golden) sometime. It's main character is one Jander Sunstar, a 500 year old gold elf vampire and he was most definately not evil. Hope this helps. :P

#27 Starfire Angel

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 09:37 PM

So if she is redeemed she is no longer a vampire? <_<

I thought that by being redeemed she was no longer evil? Then again I think you did mention previously that you where trying to stay away from good and evil.

Does vampires always have to be evil?


Vampires are a lot like drow....99.99% of them are evil.....but hey look at drizzt

#28 GeN1e

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 02:29 AM

Drow is elven subrace, while vampirism is infection. If you are noble paladin you may really want to save your love from terrible disease. However I don't know if vampirism could be cured at that stage of progress. The only chance that I can think about is godly power, which is coming to main hero during the game.

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#29 Sevarus

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 02:45 PM

Options are always a good thing to have, however Valen has to WANT to come back, and I'm not sure how you would go about that. Personally, a chance at redemption would make this mod a must-have for me.

#30 -another nobody-

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 02:35 AM

For me I can't see her being cured of her Vampirisum at all, as for valen's black heart. I think it would hard not to become black hearted when becoming Vampire, I simply don't see most being able it keep them selves, most wouldn't have the strength too.

But to be honest, to redeem a black heart, you would someone by there side. Because there psykey would be very fragile the proses of the redemption, and a bond will form between the two, the redeemer would care for that person shown or not. In other words only place in my mind is in or after redemption, or at least for the good hearts

#31 -Guest-

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 02:40 AM

Everything being done with the mod sounds facinating, this part especially. I was thinking though, that since if you waited until Bodhi has been killed to start the process of redemption, you would effectively be starting in TOB, barring a massive detour at a critical point of the game. I thought then that the death of Bohdi could be the final decision time by playing on the idea of Bohdi as matriarch in that when she dies, they all do. The character would then have to take Valen's body to the Shadow Temple and attempt to revive her. A dream-like sequence could be included for some final dialogue to see whether or not she chooses to return because of complete loyalty to Bohdi (utter RPing failure), she has been partially redeemed and sees this as punishment for past acts (considerable failure), comes back as a vampire or chooses to accept redemption and is made human the same way your romance would have.

Just a thought.

#32 vonVince

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 08:22 PM

I hadn't noticed this topic when I gave my thoughts of including something like this in other topic, but here we go.

I think there should be a chance - a chance; that's all - to make Valen "less evil", akin to chance one has in the Throne of Bhaal with Viconia and Sarevok. After all, if has a chance to redeem the man who had the Sword Coast run red with blood, who is to say that another evil (even lesser), cannot change?

#33 -Yet another Guest-

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 06:24 AM

What's up with the redemptions?

Why aren't there enough fallen options?

Like Aerie, her wings got sawed off for 'good actions' (tried to save a child), she's always complaining, with Korgan and Viconia always picking on her, she could be a viable option to turn chaotic or evil? She did became more wild in ToB through her sound set changing, and her ending sounds more like what a chaotic good person would do (Or lawful, too actually, but why not?)

What about Mazzy herself? Well... nevermind, she's perhaps too good to befall.

What about Minsc? Well... He's too simple minded and bull headed, he'd turn some evil acts into good ones (Like the very beginning...) So once the path is set I think it's harder than anyone else to fill his head with evilness winning the day I suppose

What of Tashia? She lost companionship in the beginning, she was lied and harmed by her former companion, but... more stuffs are to be taken into account, and its a mod, so not yet

And Kelsey? Nah he doesn't belong to SHS.

I just remembered there's a mod for the wicked, named "Mod for the Wicked", I'll rant there instead now.. Have a nice one on redempting

#34 Fury945

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 05:03 PM

So if she is redeemed she is no longer a vampire? <_<

I thought that by being redeemed she was no longer evil? Then again I think you did mention previously that you where trying to stay away from good and evil.

Does vampires always have to be evil?


Vampires are a lot like drow....99.99% of them are evil.....but hey look at drizzt

Actually most of a vampire's evil comes from it's control over its instincts (or lack of control), for some their hunger overcomes them, for others it has little or no effect on them, which of these is Valen? and was she evil before she was turned?
just a little something to think about. :D
and who's to say a cure is out of the question? watch the movie Daybreakers, all those vampire had been vampires for years upon end and in the end several were cured. Valen just wont be able to be cured by Bodhi's heart and the altar of Amaunator.
it adds in the chance for a long quest to make her lifeless heart beat again and return the soul that fled long ago. :vbat:

Edited by Fury945, 30 October 2010 - 05:11 PM.

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#35 -i30817-

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 10:38 PM

A option to make a good party (that is, one that goes Shadow Thieves) have a opportunity to redeem Valen is to make her simply not die when you attack Bodhi's lair.

To do this, you could make many difficult things. Maze her, kill Bodhi, and then unmaze her, run past and kill Bodhi without killing her, make her run away somehow, restrain her somehow, etc.

She'd be impressed and defect (though since Bodhi isn't actually dead, and has compulsion powers, maybe a dispel magic/charm is in order?)
(I'd especially, like the charm option since there are many such options in BG 1 -but none with such a drastic result - but only one in BG 2)

Imagination is the limit.

BTW, i'm sick of the shadow temple for romances or otherwise. I'd keep her a neutral vampire, albeit one that seeks alternative sources of blood (if she can).

Making her human is too easy and to similar to every other frigging romance and too fucking D&D with their "race begets ethics" concept.

Have her fight off bodhi instead of being killed.

Edited by Thorium Dragon, 30 May 2011 - 08:45 AM.


#36 Zyraen

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:37 PM

Considering that a "plausible" Irenicus Redemption has been written and pulled off - the Longer Road - logically, Valen's redemption would be possible but very difficult.

However, there are some minor differences. I gather that Irenicus is still considered "alive" in some way, in the Longer Road, whereas Valen is definitely, 100% undead, and a Vampire too. Romantic notions of vampires in other literature aside, some care should be taken with this.

Notably, a Vampire is a very different creature from even say, a Drow (Viconia, Solaufein). They are not living breathing creatures, they have totally different tastes where sustenance comes into play, and due to certain /daylight issues likely a rather different social life. This isn't modern day with the clubbing scene, and the vibrant night life and 24 hr shopping, the main things that occur at night would be - thievery, robbery, prostitution.

Which begs the question - where would Redemption end up ? What would be the point for a Vampire? Redemption or corruption, there must ultimately be some kind of motivation.

Redemption makes sense for most characters in that life can regain a normalcy, or sometimes one on the deathbed can die with fewer regrets / some semblance of peace. Regardless, it should make sense. What would be a "normal" life with "no regrets" for a Vampire? Given their supposed role as (un)natural predators of humanoidity (since there are many other races available in AD&D), something that is Redemption for them is probably utterly different from what is Redemption for others. I might be weird, I think breaking free of Bodhi in the Spellhold Maze in vanilla BG2 is pretty much "Redemption" already. After all, Vampires want to be their own powerful predator, master/mistress of their own unlives.

Alternatively, I guess it could be along the lines of "Oh, I'm redeemed. I quit being a Vampire."
Valen : You know that thing you mentioned about being good at all? I want to give it a shot, try banishing all the evil from me. See what good is left.
Keldorn : Sounds great! *Turn Undead*
Valen : Thanks, old "pal". *SPLATTERS*
Keldorn : Anytime.
So... where would that leave the Player? One less party member?

Of course, another way would probably involve some kind of deity turning her back into human, which would make more sense from a Player POV, if she doesn't loses her.. wait. All the abilities that make her outstanding, Backstab aside, are all Vampire Related...

Valen (Human) : Outstanding, My Vampire Claws are still with me!
Keldorn : The good or evil of a weapon lies only in its wielder.
Valen (Human) : Wooh, I still retain my innate Domination (3/day) and everything else too!
Pretty munchkin / lame, I think.

That said, I suppose it makes for more RP options, and Fighter Thief is still decent.

Edit : just had a really silly idea, but it was so funny it made me laugh.

The first act of CHARNAME, the new God of Murder, was to fulfill the wish of PRO_HERHIS long time companion Valen, to become Human again. This was to be the first act of Murder committed by CHARNAME in his new portfolio, though the effect would be seen a considerable time later, when Valen had time to bitterly regret her desire to be human again.

Edited by Zyraen, 30 May 2011 - 08:47 PM.

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#37 Thorium Dragon

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:33 AM

Considering that a "plausible" Irenicus Redemption has been written and pulled off - the Longer Road - logically, Valen's redemption would be possible but very difficult.

However, there are some minor differences. I gather that Irenicus is still considered "alive" in some way, in the Longer Road, whereas Valen is definitely, 100% undead, and a Vampire too. Romantic notions of vampires in other literature aside, some care should be taken with this.

Notably, a Vampire is a very different creature from even say, a Drow (Viconia, Solaufein). They are not living breathing creatures, they have totally different tastes where sustenance comes into play, and due to certain /daylight issues likely a rather different social life. This isn't modern day with the clubbing scene, and the vibrant night life and 24 hr shopping, the main things that occur at night would be - thievery, robbery, prostitution.

Which begs the question - where would Redemption end up ? What would be the point for a Vampire? Redemption or corruption, there must ultimately be some kind of motivation.

Redemption makes sense for most characters in that life can regain a normalcy, or sometimes one on the deathbed can die with fewer regrets / some semblance of peace. Regardless, it should make sense. What would be a "normal" life with "no regrets" for a Vampire? Given their supposed role as (un)natural predators of humanoidity (since there are many other races available in AD&D), something that is Redemption for them is probably utterly different from what is Redemption for others. I might be weird, I think breaking free of Bodhi in the Spellhold Maze in vanilla BG2 is pretty much "Redemption" already. After all, Vampires want to be their own powerful predator, master/mistress of their own unlives.

Alternatively, I guess it could be along the lines of "Oh, I'm redeemed. I quit being a Vampire."
Valen : You know that thing you mentioned about being good at all? I want to give it a shot, try banishing all the evil from me. See what good is left.
Keldorn : Sounds great! *Turn Undead*
Valen : Thanks, old "pal". *SPLATTERS*
Keldorn : Anytime.
So... where would that leave the Player? One less party member?

Of course, another way would probably involve some kind of deity turning her back into human, which would make more sense from a Player POV, if she doesn't loses her.. wait. All the abilities that make her outstanding, Backstab aside, are all Vampire Related...

Valen (Human) : Outstanding, My Vampire Claws are still with me!
Keldorn : The good or evil of a weapon lies only in its wielder.
Valen (Human) : Wooh, I still retain my innate Domination (3/day) and everything else too!
Pretty munchkin / lame, I think.

That said, I suppose it makes for more RP options, and Fighter Thief is still decent.

Edit : just had a really silly idea, but it was so funny it made me laugh.

The first act of CHARNAME, the new God of Murder, was to fulfill the wish of PRO_HERHIS long time companion Valen, to become Human again. This was to be the first act of Murder committed by CHARNAME in his new portfolio, though the effect would be seen a considerable time later, when Valen had time to bitterly regret her desire to be human again.

All good points and the last idea is a very good one from a storytelling perspective. Howvever it seems the new generation of gods seem remarkably powerless against vampirism. It took a dead god to pull it off in the game. Something to think about.


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