470 replies to this topic

[Cal Jones]

You probably want to download Romantic Encounters v.4 and look at the Sarevok encounter Aeryn wrote for that, for an idea. It's very well done. Not to mention deliciously naughty.

[HighTimeRodeo]

Oh, I've got it, that's part of what gave me the idea.

Not to mention the fun I had trying out the various paths.

Thanks for the suggestion. Outta curiosity, what do you think of Sarevok?

[Cal Jones]

He's pretty much my favourite NPC and is certainly an intriguing character. In terms of romance, I definitely see his appeal. I know a lot of women like the idea of a bad boy (in fantasy, if not in practice), particularly a bad boy who can be reformed. Plus, he is obviously buff.

I had thought about attempting something myself, but I know little about coding, and learning to mod an old game which has a limited life span grew less appealing the more I thought about it.

There is also the problem of writing a romance for a character who has so many variables. Is he oathed or unoathed? Does he have Charname's soul fragment or Imoen's? Is he chaotic evil or chaotic good? Add to that you're working around a bunch of alignment changing dialogues that fire sporadically at best, and you're talking about a whole world of hurt.

On top of that, you have to consider whether your audience will be playing with other mods. Many use Ascension. Although I despise the final battle and Ctrl-Y my way through it to reach the epilogues, I always have it installed, due to the fact it fixes Imoen's dialogues, and adds stuff like Sarevok's sword. With Ascenion, unless you change Sarevok to CG, he will always betray you to Melissan at the end. Then there's the Sarevok's Remorse component of UB, which adds one extra conversation, but it's a long one and may cover issues you might otherwise want to address. Do you ignore it, or not? Other mods, like the Angelo NPC mod, also add a lot of Sarevok content.

ToB is also short, and there are a lot of important stuff to cover in what few dialogues you can jam into it. How do you feel about him killing Gorion? How do you feel about killing Sarevok, and how does he feel about you? Can you forgive each other? Is it incest, or not? And what about Tamoko?

Those are basically the issues you are going to have to deal with, and they're big headaches (and likely the reason no one has finished a Sarevok romance to date). So you'll have to think about it carefully. I wish you luck.

[GeN1e]

With Ascenion, unless you change Sarevok to CG, he will always betray you to Melissan at the end.

He doesn't. Evil PC has no trouble with having him alongside all the way till the victory.

[Cal Jones]

Ah I guess you have to oath him for that then? I've never risked not redeeming him after reading that he always betrayed you if you didn't.

[GeN1e]

I've never risked not redeeming him after reading that he always betrayed you if you didn't.

I've played without Ascension only once. I always take Sarevok along. And I never asked for an oath. And a couple of times I played evil. Combined, this makes me to believe that it's not 'always'.

[HighTimeRodeo]

Cal has a large and well worded point. I think the whole Tamoko situation can be handled in the opposites room (AKA, the healing pools room). If Sarevok has dialog there and then a conversation about it with the PC, or Valygar, if he's in the party, it can handle that very well. I admit, I always play with Ascension as well, but the first time I played TOB was when I didn't have Ascension, at least I think, but I managed to get Sarevok to change his alignment in there.

As for oathed, I think the whole romance thing wouldn't play with an oath keeping him loyal. In relationships there's always a certain amount of trust involved. As for Chaotic Good or Chaotic Evil, I could probably swing it so there's a CG relationship of trust and love and all that Hallmark stuff. And CE would be more lusty, lewd and a good deal more 'fun'. Yes, there'd be the thought for him doing a Face Heel Turn to Amelyssan's team, but then that'd be a risk you'd take going down that particular path. Don't forget, he is a 'bad boy'.

As GeN1ie pointed out, there oughta be more than a few set paths. And if you're worried about time, don't forget with Watcher's Keep there's added time and the Soluafein mod can be crammed in. I'm not talking about anything full scale here, but I think I can wiggle something in there.

You mentioned about how Sarevok might feel about you and how you feel about killing him, those are covered I think in the Alignment Change dialogs. I think it also covers the Gorion thing. As for incest....Well, have you ever thought about Sarevok as any kind of a sibling? I've never played UB, because I'm entirely interested in large mods. And I have dial-up, downloading's a *witch* on time.

If he has Charname's soul fragment, then it plays like a regular game with all the added dialog a romance would have. If it's Imoen's soul, then a few dialogs like the one he has with her when she asks him how it feels to have a piece of her soul.

And too, Imoen'll have something to say about the whole 'romance' thing. Hey, Cal, if you're interested, and have time, would you be willing to work with me?

Edited by HighTimeRodeo, 10 November 2008 - 06:53 AM.

[Bardess]

Heya! If you write a Sarevok romance, you'll be my next heroine! (beside Domi who wrote Bishie's)

You said you have a problem with evil PC responses? I think I could help there... (It may be all I'm good at, LOL!)
No, seriously, I'm very interested in a Sarevok romance, especially if/for the path when/ he stays evil. And I'd like to help. It's always good to have other people to review your work, and stuff, cause even when we do our best, there might be some things we'll leave out.

I'd be mighty glad to take a look at more of your work, or even help you write something, if you'd like!



*edit: Adding the lil pic that I used to have in ma signature!

Attached Images

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Edited by Bardess, 10 November 2008 - 11:09 AM.

[HighTimeRodeo]

Oh, yeah, that'd be great!

I only play CG and I don't have the heart to play evil characters. At least in SOA. Think you can handle his character? I sometimes have trouble staying in character with him.

By the by, do you have any knowledge of coding?

[EpitomyofShyness]

Hello, I'm gonna try and get more info on Tamoko and I'll see if I can come up with some pretty nasty backstabs for the whole Wraith Gorion scene. They had a pretty seriously messed up history, what with her competing in the first game with some other girl for him, not to mention he basically sent her to her death when he told her to go fight CHARNAME, so it should be interesting. I'll send you the stuff once I get a rough draft. To be totally honest I absolutely love Sarevok but I don't think I could write him, but I think based on the whole Sarevok Tamoko relationship I could pull off Tamoko.

Also, for the whole multiple responses thing, if you are ever having trouble with thinking of multiple responses just send me some of the dialouge and I will very much enjoy thinking up a few responses for you. Thinking of multiple ways someone can reply to a situation is a wondrously enjoyable specialty of mine.

I think you write very good dialouge but I agree with the whole no action text unless it is an emergency. Reading through that sample Dialouge you put up I read it without the action text and think it looks better that way, you still get the idea of what is going on. Of course action text in certain situations is splendid.

:cough: HealingpoolswithSarevokREmod :cough:

But one thing I do think is that even if he was redeemed he would not be particularly loving. As a matter of fact him becoming good might complicate the relationship ridiculously, because he probably wouldn't be too happy about everything he suddenly feels responsible for. I think it would actually make the romance potentially even more difficult for the redeemed route. Then again since if you don't redeem him he will probably leave you at the end you're pretty much set up for grief no matter which way you go...

Ah well, we'll just enjoy him while we can, during the game!

[Choo Choo]

Another problem, ToB is so shoooooort! Writing a fully believable romance for it will be difficult, whether it's for Sarevok or someone else. NPC romance is easier, because then it's more than believable that you're not around to actually hear everything and therefore missing out on quite a few bits on the romance (unless you're a voyeur, I guess...)

Edited by Choo Choo, 31 December 2008 - 03:41 AM.

[Onigami]

Someone like him isn't capable of love, in my opinion.

What of Tamoko then?

Tamoko was hardly mentioned by Sarevok in the ToB game. I never really kept him in the party so I cannot say if he'd be a good romance or not...

But then again, Sarevok is like the Imoen romance, a little incestuous, since they are technically your brother and sister. Well, at least you can have 1 thing in common: you have the same daddy.

[Cal Jones]

In fact he doesn't talk about her at all, unless you have "Sarevok's Remorse" component of UB installed (and that is really just one conversation).
(And sorry, Rodeo - I didn't answer your question - first time I stopped by this thread in ages!)

[Onigami]

In fact he doesn't talk about her at all, unless you have "Sarevok's Remorse" component of UB installed (and that is really just one conversation).

Yeah, it seems a little odd that Sarevok would be in love with Tamoko and not even mention her throughout the entire series. The only one of the two who showed any amount of affection between them was Tamoko.

I'd like to see more banter from Sarevok about Tamoko rather than a romance for him. It could shed more light on who he is and give him more personality in the ToB part of the series, since, after all, he feels a little less "evil". I usually refrain from bringing Sarevok into my party because his conversations usually revolve around the "Bhaalspawn powers" and nothing else, even for a man who has loved and lost everything, he seems completely oblivious to that fact.

[HighTimeRodeo]

For Epitomy:

Sure, I'll whip something up and send it off. Hmm, not feel so great about all this sudden responsibility? That's a good point. I'm not a guy, but I do know the feeling of sudden and overwhelming responsibility? Heh, I know that feeling. I'll scrap something together and you guys can have a look see.


For Choo Choo:

Shortness and voyerisum....Wow, sounds awfully racy for this forum ;D. Well, like I said earlier, there's always Watcher's Keep and maybe I can get ahold of David Gaider, or someone can, and see if he's willing to share his expertise on fitting long things in short spaces... And for racy bits there's always the power of suggestion and suggestive writing. I'm fanfiction writer, suggestive is one of my specialties. :wink:


For Onigami:

Incestous? Have you ever thought of Sarevok as a brother? I have a brother I was raised around and I never think of him like that. And Imoen, your PC was raised around her, so if the PC was male, would he think of her like that? Now look at Saro's case. He tried to kill your PC twice in the past and one of those two times he was a ghost. And I remember seeing somewhere, please don't ask for specifics, I can't remember what I had for dinner Monday two weeks ago, that it seemed like his dialogue's were rushed. Perhaps that's why she wasn't mentioned.

You and my brother are alike in not keeping him around Onigami. My brother turns him into a statue. How you would you feel about writing a short burst of dialog for him talking about Tamoko with.....Oh, say Minsc or your favorite character.

[Onigami]

For Onigami:

Incestous? Have you ever thought of Sarevok as a brother? I have a brother I was raised around and I never think of him like that. And Imoen, your PC was raised around her, so if the PC was male, would he think of her like that? Now look at Saro's case. He tried to kill your PC twice in the past and one of those two times he was a ghost. And I remember seeing somewhere, please don't ask for specifics, I can't remember what I had for dinner Monday two weeks ago, that it seemed like his dialogue's were rushed. Perhaps that's why she wasn't mentioned.

You and my brother are alike in not keeping him around Onigami. My brother turns him into a statue. How you would you feel about writing a short burst of dialog for him talking about Tamoko with.....Oh, say Minsc or your favorite character.

Umm, well, Imoen, the main char and Sarevok are children of Bhaal, so they do share the same father. That can to some degree be considered incestuous. On a technical term, Imoen is your sister and Sarevok is your brother. Maybe it's just me, I dunno...

And I doubt I'd be able to write a good dialog for Sarevok.

[Icendoan]

There was a huge argument about this on BioWare, which I can recall. Both about Sarevok and Imoen.

It boiled down to this:

Incest: Sexual Intercourse with someone you are directly genetically related (genetic brother/sister)

And this question: Is Essence of Bhaal genetic?

Arguments for: I can't remember, but you can probably think of some.

Arguments against: You can have "pure blooded" elves, and human, halflings and so on, as well as Dragons and drow and f***ing Chinchillas, so you can't let Bhaal's essence be genetic, as I think he was a human before ascension.

Unless they had the same mother, which is unlikely, regarding that you can play as things other than a human, it depends on <CHARNAME>'s race, and in Sarevok's case, if you are anything but human, and he said that "[He] lost his essence when [he] died...", so any pseudo-genetic links are now nonexistant, which is another point to saying it isn't.

Icen

[EpitomyofShyness]

Thank you Icen for so aptly saying exactly what I always want to say but never find the words to say when someone says it is incest!

And anyways I am of the opinion that if someone doesn't like an idea they can just not play it...

[Lykainon]

Something to keep in mind is probably that if we, as players, ponders over the incest issue, the actual people involved (CHARNAME and Sarevok) are likely thinking even harder about it. In other words, it might be a good idea to address it in one of the lovetalks. First of all, it could explain your opinion on it to those who use the mod and second, it could probably a pretty interesting (and potentially humorous) banter.

[Icendoan]

If so, it needs a Race check, for anything not part human. Otherwise it is implausible, and some nitpicking idiot (like me ) will come and complain.

Icen