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KotOR II - Most depressing game ever?


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#1 Cal Jones

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 07:46 AM

Just finished this for the third time. My initial impressions of K2, after finishing K1, was that it wasn't as good, but it really did grow on me once I'd got past the rather dull opening stages. Now, I know the main complaints against it are due to the cut content, and the final stage of the game is rather poor in that regard, but it still hangs together OK, if you disregard a couple of loose ends. The ending sequence in particular has had a lot of stick, though at least you get Kreia's "epilogues" for the various characters (except Bao-Dur and the droids), so at least you can assume they didn't all die in the crash, which you might well do if you missed that part of the conversation with her.

Still, it leaves me on a massive downer. Firstly, you find that all you did in KotOR was for nought: Malak may have been defeated, but the Republic is now on its last legs and the Jedis have been all but exterminated. (Likewise if you played Revan as darkside, he disappeared anyway, instead of ruling the galaxy with Bastila as his lover and apprentice). After the excitement of the civil war on Onderon (I guess most people do this bit last - it seems to work better that way) the game degenerates into doom and gloom. If you are playing lightside, then you discover the horrible nature of your character; the Jedi masters all die miserably, and then you have to say goodbye to the NPCs you have worked so hard to develop whilst your crawl the miserable surface of Malachor alone. Ultimately, the Exile is condemned to travel the hidden reaches of space, much like Revan was. And you never find out what became of him, either, though the blurb for the new MMO seems to indicate neither he nor the Exile returned. Pass the Prozac.

The only happy thing about the cut content is that a couple of characters who could have snuffed it, didn't. I know Atton was supposed to have a fight with Darth Sion, and if he lost, would have ended up dying in the Exile's arms after confessing his love for her. Tragic-romantic, but gah, talk about compounding the Exile's miseries... And after reading up on what was cut, it seems highly likely Bao-Dur was intended to die. Since he ended up being my favourite NPC I'm rather happy that didn't happen, though his fate is not resolved in any way.

If a third installment was coming, I guess we could look at Sith Lords as we do Empire Strikes Back - a darker middle section to a trilogy that ends on a happier note. But it doesn't seem as this is going to happen any time soon, so we're stuck with a rather grim ending and many unanswered questions. And on that note, I think I'd better go and play something different to cheer myself up!

#2 Tassadar88

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 10:03 AM

Now now... you should try Planescape:Torment...
KOTORII is a romantic comedy compared :ph34r:
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#3 GeN1e

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 10:14 AM

Speaking of the 'hole in the Force', that's exactly the thing I've failed to understand. Yes, I know that players should have a brain of their own, but...
From various comments on boards and digging in dialogs I derived an idea that Exile and Bao-Dur used the what's-it's-name-Generator to devastate Mandalorian fleet (and to distort Malachor) and the flashback of thousands, dying by his/her hand, was so overwhelming that Exile had to severe (subconsciously) him/herself from the Force to keep sanity.

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#4 Eleima

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 10:31 AM

Pass the Prozac.

I'll have some of that too, please!!

I completely agree with your view on KotOR 2. Talk about depressing. Whatever your choices, whatever you do, the outcome is the same. Revan and the Exile leave known space and are never heard from again, their love interests are left to fend for themselves (that Carth talk at the end of KotOR 2 was the most depressing *ever*, broke my heart, silly, I know), the Republic is still limping, trying to survive the last couple of wars (and doesn't look good, if you ask me). It's just soo... *ugh*... And did I mention Malachor wasn't very cheery either. You'd think after all that time that at least *Nature* would have reclaimed the land...


Now now... you should try Planescape:Torment...
KOTORII is a romantic comedy compared :ph34r:

I disagree. At least there's closure with Ps:T. Nameless dies, and goes on to try to find redemption by fighting in the Blood Wars. Well, at least, that's how I see it. There's an ending, a true finale in Ps:T. Not so in KotOR 2: the whole ending is so anticlimatic.

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#5 GeN1e

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 10:54 AM

Depressing, but not tragic, that's very important imo. Like many people say, there are enough tragedies in RL. But OTOH 'and they lived on long together, and died in the same day' isn't something that remains in memory for long. Depressive doom satisfies both, so I'd rather say it's a plus for K2. If only if was more consistent...

you should try Planescape:Torment...

I too have yet to play it.

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#6 Cal Jones

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 11:33 AM

I completely agree with your view on KotOR 2. Talk about depressing. Whatever your choices, whatever you do, the outcome is the same. Revan and the Exile leave known space and are never heard from again, their love interests are left to fend for themselves (that Carth talk at the end of KotOR 2 was the most depressing *ever*, broke my heart, silly, I know), the Republic is still limping, trying to survive the last couple of wars (and doesn't look good, if you ask me). It's just soo... *ugh*... And did I mention Malachor wasn't very cheery either. You'd think after all that time that at least *Nature* would have reclaimed the land...


Well, if by nature you mean storm beasts, or whatever they were... I guess Malachor was too irradiated and broken. The only thing left to do is put it out of its misery, which you do, if you go for the light ending. (Incidentally I never played 100% dark side. When I played a male exile my intention was to be dark, and I got as far as taking a Sith Marauder prestige class, but I just couldn't go the whole way. I started feeling guilty when my companions started to show their dark side ravages - Atton looks particularly terrible. I couldn't do it to them, just as I could never bring myself to kill Jolee Bindo in KotOR 1).

I set Revan to light male in all my K2 games, as it was canon (although I tried both male and female Revans when I played the first game) - Bastila's talk with Carth was equally depressing, I imagine. I wasn't that big a fan of her in the first game but I felt pretty bad for her nonetheless.

I felt bad for Candy as well, knowing he was waiting for Revan to give him some order that would never come (and especially after looking at the ghastly little room he was living in). I know the Mandalorians are basically baddies, but they're rather awesome, and Kreia's prognosis wasn't too happy for them either.

Still, I feel worst of all for Darth Sion - when you ask him if his life was worth living and he says no, it made my heart break just a little bit.

I disagree. At least there's closure with Ps:T. Nameless dies, and goes on to try to find redemption by fighting in the Blood Wars. Well, at least, that's how I see it. There's an ending, a true finale in Ps:T. Not so in KotOR 2: the whole ending is so anticlimatic.


I've played PS:T twice. Unlike BG games, it's not one I can play often, since it is quite a downer, though last time I played I found it more sad, in a lump-in-the-throat kind of way, rather than depressing. Still, there are similarities - in both games you are separated from your companions for the last stage of the game, and I think this adds to feeling of misery. You get to the penultimate stages of the games thinking "OK this is the last time I can have these characters with me" and it's sad.
Is NWN2 depressing as well? (I haven't tried it as yet, as I think my PC may struggle with it).

#7 GeN1e

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 11:46 AM

I started feeling guilty when my companions started to show their dark side ravages - Atton looks particularly terrible.

You should have disabled that effect (thogh it needs KotorTool or the like). Take Malak, he was definitely dark, yet with a rather normal face.

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#8 Solstice

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 11:53 AM

What keeps me from getting too depressed from KotOR2 is that you know the Republic and the Jedi will survive-otherwise we'd have no movies. The ultimate outcome is never in doubt, and that takes away a lot of the tension.
"Ok, I've just about had my FILL of riddle asking, quest assigning, insult throwing, pun hurling, hostage taking, iron mongering, smart arsed fools, freaks, and felons that continually test my will, mettle, strength, intelligence, and most of all, patience! If you've got a straight answer ANYWHERE in that bent little head of yours, I want to hear it pretty damn quick or I'm going to take a large blunt object roughly the size of Elminster AND his hat, and stuff it lengthwise into a crevice of your being so seldom seen that even the denizens of the nine hells themselves wouldn't touch it with a twenty-foot rusty halberd! Have I MADE myself perfectly CLEAR?!" -Charname, Baldur's Gate 1

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#9 Cal Jones

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 12:38 PM

You should have disabled that effect (thogh it needs KotorTool or the like). Take Malak, he was definitely dark, yet with a rather normal face.


Aside from the missing jaw...Ahem. :D
Malak's quite a nice looking chap when you meet his pre-accident vision in K2 - not so much in K1 though.
Still, Bastila looks perfectly normal when turning to the dark side. Handmaiden, when I saw her, just looked a bit goth, but Atton looked as though he'd aged 30 years. (As for Colonel Tobin...)

It was more the guilt of knowing about the force connections and knowing you're dragging the others down with you that made me guilty. There isn't a mod that can fix that. :)

#10 Yovaneth

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 03:24 PM

It was more the guilt of knowing about the force connections and knowing you're dragging the others down with you that made me guilty. There isn't a mod that can fix that. :)

I guess you could say that the game is doing its job as it does appear to be pulling you in. I got hacked off at the end of Kotor2; I felt that the ending was so poor that I consoled my way to mega-godhead and trashed Kreia without any feelings of guilt or cheating whatsoever. That's a complete rarity for me.

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