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Powergaming TNO (minor spoilers)


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#1 Klorox

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 01:50 PM

Before we even get started, I know that powergaming is not needed in any RPG to have a great time, probably even moreso in PS:T.

Anyway, I got to thinking, what would be the most powerful NO somebody could create? What would his starting stats be? What classes would he choose?

Well, the simple part is the classes, early on anyway (mainly for a very solid Hit Point base).

There's no reason not to go to level 6 as a Fighter. After that, you should obviously choose level 7 in the class you'd like to concentrate on, and then switch back to Fighter until level 9. Level 10 should be in the Thief class. After that, you're pretty safe sticking with the class you'd like to concentrate on for the remainder of the game. If you're really into an extra 1/2 attack per round, go to level 13 as a Fighter. Just make sure you take level 12 in your chosen profession, since this is the second "power-up."

On to the statistics:

It's great to have a 18 Strength, so that when it gets boosted by an item or certain circumstances in the game, it can jump to 19 STR, skipping over those annoying percentile STR points. This is just a point-saving thing though: if you don't plan on whacking things with a weapon, STR isn't worth too much.

Dexterity pretty much loses it's appeal after 18, so I'd personally aim for that to be the end point. I've noticed a 13 DEX helping quite a bit early on for some minor XP bonuses.

Constitution is very tricky: The extra HP and faster regeneration rate make a high CON very appealing, but dying in this game is only an annoyance, since you always get back up! It's a very good idea to start with a 14 CON though. You start the game with 10 more HP than you would with a 9 CON. And this little bonus is not granted if you boost your CON to 14 later.

Intelligence is a great stat. It helps in quite a few conversations. If you want to be a Mage, you really need to aim for a 19 INT, since you won't be limited by the number of spells you can scribe in your book. On the other hand, you have a long way to go before ever worrying about that, so it can still start off fairly low.

With stats, Wisdom rules. There's no reason for both the powergamer and the guy looking to get the most story out of this game to not start with an 18 WIS. This stat adds to XP, meaning you go up in levels faster. And leveling up faster means more stats! It also means the most recovered memories, so there's more story that way as well as more XP. Minor spoiler: If you don't plan on playing (primarily) a Mage, boost this by 1 at your first level-up. If you are playing a Mage, you don't need to worry. I say this because there's a great item available late in the game that grants a +2 to CHA at the cost of -1 to WIS. You get +7 WIS through the game, so a starting 18 will lead to 25.

Charisma. I like CHA, a lot. It's probably the second most important stat. It opens up a lot of conversation options (very important in quite a few places), and lowers prices in all the shops (which means more stat boosting tattoos earlier!).

Alignment: From what I can tell, you get a lot more in this game from playing a Lawful Good type. You get some better items, and you get better stat bumps (from both items and conversations).

Class choice: Personally, I'd concentrate either on Fighter or Mage. Mage is probably a bit more powerful, and you'll almost definitely get more out of the story (since you'll be looking for a higher INT). Fighters will just kick serious butt in combat. They get the most fun weapons to play with. It's almost universally accepted (at least from all I've read, as well as personal experience) that Thieves aren't all that great. BTW, one of the best, and definitely the most versatile stat boosting item in the game requires 12 levels of Mage.

Faction choices: If you're concentrating on Mage, I'd suggest joining the Dustmen first, then the Godsmen, and finally the Sensates. Sensates have a neat little bonus that allows them to give 1-10 HP of their own to heal a party member once a day. Since TNO regenerates, it's like having an extra Cure Light Wounds spell handy.

If you're going with a Fighter build, I'd suggest going with the Dustmen, then the Sensates, and finally the Godsmen. The only reason for this is that the Godsmen have some really awesome weapons available fairly early in the game, and only Godsmen can use them.

Well, that's about it for now. I'd love to get some feedback, and if anybody has a list of the stats needed for the highest stat checks in the game we can pretty much wrap this baby up!
Baruk Khazd! Khazd ai-mnu!

Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin

#2 -Nameless Poster-

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 07:21 AM

I personally favor Mage as the best class. You can still get *** in dagger and be pretty good in a fight, and you can actually more easily attain a better AC than a Fighter. Oh yeah, and you have those spells to help out too. ;)

They're also a lot more fun, you get a better story, and you get cooler bonuses (like with Ravel). Let the NPCs do most of the fighting (Morte, Dak'kon, Annah, Nordom, and Vaihlor are awesome fighters).



Stats are easier to manage as well. Strength doesn't matter to a Mage, Dexterity maxes out it's effectiveness at 18 (unless you want to go to 21 after that), and Constitution rules the physical stats (and I personally never start with lower than 14). There's no reason to go higher than a 21 intelligence with a Mage (and that's only good for 1 dialogue). Charisma is important, but it's so easy to boost it. Starting with an 18 Wisdom means never having to boost it again.

Since Charisma and Intelligence are SO EASY to boost (Friends spell and Cranium Rat charms, respectively), this means that Mages have BY FAR the easiest time with stats.

The way I like to play is to start with these stats: S 9 D 13 (for breaking necks) C 14 I 12 W 18 Ch 9. I boost Intelligence my first level-up. Then I boost Charisma until I get a natural 13. After that, I just rotate boosting my lowest stat, ignoring Strength. It makes for an AWESOME character, and I never have to mess around with level-up XP farms like Under-Sigil or the Modron Cube (well, that's not entirely true... I like to make sure I'm a level 12 Mage before chatting with Ravel). I ALWAYS like to maximize my hit points, so I level up as suggested in this guide: Level 1-6 Fighter, level 7 Mage, level 8 & 9 as a Fighter, level 10 as a Thief, and then stay as a Mage for mostly the rest of the game. I don't bother with going to level 13 as a Fighter, that's just too long and boring.

BTW, one major disagreement with the above post: I always make my end-faction the Sensates. The Godsmen weapons are not worth giving up an extra healing spell IMHO.

#3 Irbis

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 08:58 AM

hehe. been playing a "legit" mage and gone up to 60 lvl or something. there really was not much enemies (or even one) who could survive meting me. warriors and thiefs are limited, you hit max str, get the best weapons and then the only thing that improves is you HP (yes i ignore TraK0 here as it becomes more then enough quite soon) and v'la. your done.
Wizard class in the other hand always improves from the first lvl to max known to me 127lvl. both in spells dmg and number of spells you can cast. mages are just neverending progress when fighting or thief reaches their limits in +/- 30 lvl and they dont improve much further. fighter with 30lvl will do the same dmg as the one with 90lvl. you just have literaly tons of HP and trak0 like point lasers lol. the downside is that after 30lvl mage there isnt really much of challange... and anything above this is like god mode (PS:T gives you incredible high level cap but totaly lacks of powerfull enemies)

Edited by Irbis, 02 December 2008 - 09:01 AM.

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 10:07 AM

How could you possibly, legitimately reach such a high level?

#5 Irbis

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 11:10 AM

1. switched to mage ASAP
2. did every singiel quest there was,
3. camped in dungeon underCleric District every time i had over 50% EXP needed for lvl up
4. v'la, cant remember did i had 9 or 12 spells slots in 9th row of wizard spells. cant remember how many from 1 row but i am preety much sure they stoped being visibly lol

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#6 Klorox

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 04:46 PM

3. camped in dungeon underCleric District every time i had over 50% EXP needed for lvl up

OMG, I would have felt like shooting myself.
Baruk Khazd! Khazd ai-mnu!

Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin

#7 -Gonzo100100-

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 08:10 PM

Hello, I am aware that the last post was written in 2008 but the subject interests me and I hope that someone will reply.

 

I need to mention that I never played Planescape: Torment but I played games like BG:1,2; Fallout 1,2 more than few times each. So, throughout my childhood I got through many experimentations in those games and I don’t know why but as I’m an adult now I would like to get what is possible to obtain right in my first attempt. So I want to prepare even at the cost of minor spoilers.

 

I want to build as powerful character as possible (for no particular reason but to balance it a little I probably will set the highest difficulty level.)

What I can understand right now is that the best effects I will get with mage.

Anyway, there are some points that I need some help with:

 

Fighter:

      7th            + 1  STR, able to have 4 proficiency in a weapon

      12th           + 1  STR, + 1  CON, + 3  HP, able to have 5 proficiency

  Mage:

      7th            + 1  INT

      12th           + 2  INT, + 1  WIS, + 5  Lore

 

1: If I get to fighter 12 (getting 2 fighter specializations) and then will turn mage for the rest of the game… will TNO be considered not mage by some characters?

If not, then unless I’m missing something it is actually much better to be a mage with 2 fighter specializations. That way TNO will have a little bit more HP because on lvl 7 there will be no need to turn mage. There will be no need to lvlup to lvl 13 fighter because (according to Mattheau from GameFaqs forum) “The TNO Fighter Specialization increases do not stack with the increases a normal Fighter gets at level 7 and level 13.”

The little disadvantage is that TNO won’t get Tatto of the Magi +3int, doubles lvl 1 and 2 spells.

 

2: If I was to follow Klorox’s guide, why would I need to get thief lvl 10? What’s the benefit there?

 

3: Do proficiencies give THAC0 and damage bonuses beyond 0,5 attack having ** and +1attack on ***** ?

 

4: Klorox and the post below him advices to start with con 14 to get 10hp more but if this 10 HP points are so important why not to start witch 18 and get 42hp from the beginning?

 

5: How is that the strength is not important for mage, if TNO run out of spells, it is better to deal some reasonable damage in melee than just be almost useless?

 

6: progression in attributes, if I had to go with something like 9str, 11dex, 9con, 15int, 18wis, 13char How should I progress to be most efficient? I imagine I should add 2 first lvls to dex to reach 13 then what? Str to 18? Int to 17? Or maybe con to something like 22?

 

 

I understand that my arguments may be completely wrong because I relay on research, not on experience. So, I will be grateful for explanations. 



#8 -Gonzo100100-

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 08:31 PM

One more question…

7: If I for example observe techniques of characters that steal from TNO without having any levels as thief, once I become thief, the pickpocket points will be increased accordingly or they were just wasted? In that case it would be obvious to approach certain characters only while being a thief.



#9 The Imp

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 02:57 AM

1: If I get to fighter 12 (getting 2 fighter specializations) and then will turn mage for the rest of the game… will TNO be considered not mage by some characters?

...

 

3: Do proficiencies give THAC0 and damage bonuses beyond 0,5 attack having ** and +1attack on ***** ?

 

4: Klorox and the post below him advices to start with con 14 to get 10hp more but if this 10 HP points are so important why not to start witch 18 and get 42hp from the beginning?

1. Well in the early game he has no mage class so yeah. Beyond that, you have to gain the XP to level up from level 1 as a mage. The games xp is harder to get the further you go beyond the normal limits of the game. And thus you should make your character build the optional way, and not go "yeah, I'll take 5 warrior, 5 rogue and 5 mage class before I decide to do a decision from one of them.

3. Yes, it's the standard 2nd edition Prof table:

2DA V1.0
0
   HIT  DAMAGE     
0   0     0
1   0     0
2   1     2
3   3     3
4   3     5
5   3     5

The first being the star/proficiency amount, second the Thac0 bonus and third the damage bonus.

4. There are other benefits such as the tattoo's(if memory serves), but the benefit is not worth using all the points at the beginning. Especially as you are immortal.


Edited by The Imp, 05 August 2016 - 03:08 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#10 -Guest-

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:25 AM

What’s better final result…

13 fighter (double fighter specialization) -> all the rest in mage (no specialization tattoos)

Or

6 fighter -> 7 mage -> 11 fighter -> 12 mage -> 13 fighter -> all the rest in mage (tattoo of the Magi available)

 

Basically what is better, tattoo of the magi +3int, doubles lvl 1 & 2 spells

Or

 ½ attack + 2 dmg per hit from ***** ?

 

Is there something I missed?

 

Finally, just to make sure, I believe that with the Tweaks Pack getting 10 levels as thief is redundant? 



#11 Daulmakan

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 03:03 PM

I want to build as powerful character as possible (for no particular reason but to balance it a little I probably will set the highest difficulty level.)
I can understand right now is that the best effects I will get with mage.
Actually, mages don't have a wide spell selection like in BG2, and practically all the monsters you'd want to use your spells on have magic resistance, rendering them a lot less useful (there's no Lower Resistance in PS:T). So, for powergaming, fighter is the way to go.
 
1: If I get to fighter 12 (getting 2 fighter specializations) and then will turn mage for the rest of the game will TNO be considered not mage by some characters?
IIRC, NPCs just check your current active class, regardless of whatever levels you might have in another, I think Coaxmetal and Fell were the only ones where your specializations mattered (they offered different items).
Finally, just to make sure, I believe that with the Tweaks Pack getting 10 levels as thief is redundant? 
In vanilla, you'd get an extra HP for each level-up in another class below your main one, so there was an incentive to gain levels as thief or mage even if you were playing a fighter. If you're using Qwinn's fixpack, you don't get those extra hit points.

#12 -Kibou-

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 02:25 AM

I was wondering about mage specializations vs. fighter specializations, too:

 

I just started the game with 17 INT, 18 WIS and 13 CHA.

 

Double-specializing as a mage would allow me to gain several additional points in INT from spec bonuses and tattoos. However, as I understand, I only need INT 19 for all spell-related benefits, and I'll only need >19 for dialogues quite late in the game. Thus, all that INT wouldn't be that useful.

 

Double-specializing as a fighter, on the other hand, grants you the ability to have 5 proficiency that you can't get anywhere else, and the tattoo has a nice boost to AC, strength and HP. Also, as I understand, both Annah and Dak'kon can use it, while the Magi tattoo from double-speccing can only be used by Dak'kon.

 

What I can't tell yet is:

 

- Is losing the "double 1st/2nd level spells" from Tattoo of the Magi a big disadvantage? Are they still that useful in the later parts of the game?

 

- Would a mage TNO with 12 fighter levels (more HP, better THAC0, better saving throw), double fighter spec., weapon proficiency up to 5 and Tattoo of the Supreme Warrior be a decent melee fighter in addition to being a spellcaster?

 

- Would things work out in regard to the XP investment? Staying fighter until lvl7 shouldn't be a big deal, since most ppl seem to stay fighter until lvl6 for the HP gain. However, switching back to fighter after reaching lvl7 as mage, and then progressing until fighter lvl12 seems to be a huge additional XP investment. Would that nerf me in the middle/late game due to having access to high-level spells later? Would I still be able to sufficiently progress as a mage to learn level 9 spells later in the game?



#13 -Kibou-

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:53 AM

Never mind, I didn't know that the double-speccing tattoos are class-restricted, i.e. you can't equip tattoo of the supreme warrior anymore after you switch to mage. This makes the whole idea entirely pointless.

 

Plus, it seems that with the fix pack installed, you always get 1d10 HP (or always 10 HP with the max-HP-tweak), so getting levels as fighter doesn't benefit a mage that much anymore.





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