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More NPC integrity


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#21 Crazee

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 03:26 AM

I'd like to play this. It would certainly add challenge to a game that's become stale. Normally, I wouldn't be a fan of a mod that make my game more difficult - even after all these years, I still find it hard to defeat some parts of the game - but money is never a problem in BG2, so I think it would be an interesting addition. And of course, anything involving extra dialogue for the NPCs, however small, is a huge plus in my books.

I look forward to hearing more from you. :)

#22 -Death Folder-

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 01:20 AM

I, too, would not play it. It adds a bit of realism, certainly, but I'd end up feeling annoyed by it. A curious question, however: If you're going to make it anyway, for yourself if for no one else, why ask anyone whether it's a good idea or not? You obviously think it is, and worth the effort and work also. :)


Because I still think it's fun to have other peoples input.


Very well. It just sounded like you wished other people's approval. I was wrong. ^_^ Well good luck.

#23 Thanatos.

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 02:53 PM

I guess there are (generally speaking) two kinds of players.
Those that want a really powerful character and as few restrictions as possible, and those that want a more challenging and interesting gameplay.


Or any shade of grey in between...

Just the sheer length of time it would take to make this is a bit big. I mean, you have to categorize *every* item into good, evil or neutral, then have talks with every NPC about each item, and a banter as to why they won't use it!
The money is do-able, though. I don't much like the idea of my entire party trying to kill me over buying a goodberry though :wacko:

(and yeah, I apologise for my statement earlier. I'll try to keep my uselessness to a minimum, but in the meantime, this thread isnt the place to be doing any kind of offtopic banters :smile:)

#24 Zyraen

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:02 PM

1) Closing Up Inventory / Gold
Technically, characterising every item would not be that hard. You just need to (of course) manually decide what alignment a given magical item is (if any), and flag it accordingly so that it bans users of the OPPOSITE alignment (for eg, Ring of Gaxx is unusable by Good Characters). There's a component in my Misc Mods that does the exact Opposite, ie it removes the Alignment restrictions (I've always found it odd that Good Items rarely have Alignment restrictions, whereas Evil items do....) Too much Effort I feel, for something that will probably not be well received by Players.

Your party members controlling stuff you buy though, that would be a problem. Closing up Inventory as well, I just don't quite see that happening unless you can put them in some kind of permastun mode or something. That would be too problematic though.

2) NPCs that do not let them leave you in Certain Places
I used to try and implement this with Kova and Kiyone, where if the one was dead and removed from party, the other would leave with the body. Currently in BTL they leave and that's it, but my original idea was that the surviving one would keep coming back to Harrass you with attacks. Still, its not meaningful because its fairly difficult to write a reasonable, non-cheating AI script, where a previously dismissed party member is of any reasonable threat to the party (at any given level). Not to mention doing so for ALL the different places they could be pissed to be dropped off, and besides why would a Player who has run with the NPC for that long want to do a perma-loss of the NPC? (bar Yoshimo...) Since the NPC becomes an enemy when forcibly kicked in such a way.

3) Gold etc were not enough
Locking up a gold amount, that would indeed be problematic. A better and far simpler simulation is a "gold drain" or a "Mercenary fee" given to each NPC, something like a Party Upkeep, ie at the end of every day, they take for themselves an X amount of gold (X can vary for different NPCs if you like, and can also vary depending on what level the NPCs are) If your gold falls below a certain amount, you are forced to choose which party member to let go of. This can be adjusted for individual NPC Quests, for eg. if you're helping Keldorn with the Unseeing Eye quest, he won't take any gold from you until its completed, OR unless you leave the Sewers / related areas. Its just an idea and an example. Troublesome to implement, even more unlikely to be installed by ANYONE who plays BG2, but nonetheless it is very doable, reasonable and realistic. I for one wouldn't play it.

Off the side note, in BTL Kova and Kiyone stay with you as you repeatedly refuse to give them up for Offers of Gold (ie instead of you giving them gold yourself, you are constantly offered chances to turn Kova in for your own gold benefit). This earns their loyalty in much later stages, unless of course you happen to re-align to evil, then they will leave you just after SoA ends and Irenicus is killed in Hell. Late-stage BTL also gives you a chance to reward (ie give gold) to a particular Bioware NPC if he is in your party, who will otherwise betray you later on. Giving the right amount of gold is important - giving too little causes him to betray you later anyway.

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#25 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:17 PM

1) Closing Up Inventory / Gold
Technically, characterising every item would not be that hard. You just need to (of course) manually decide what alignment a given magical item is...

Well, technically, a better solution might be to close up the whole party member stuff completely and make the join-able NPCs, really allies like the familiar. :lol:
Grm, it might also be bad idea. :D

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