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Uninstalling Banter Accelerator and Party AI


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#1 --Leo--

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 02:33 PM

Hi there,

First of all thanks for the great works you did and you keep doing as i see your yesterday posts.

I have two problems:

Briefly the problem is when i uninstall Banter Accelerator from Tweak Pack i can't run any previously saved games(Game Crashes on Loading screen and back to Windows desktop asking me if i want to send the error info)

The reason i tried to uninstall it brings the second and main problem which is having non functioning (i guess) Party AI . Both from the icon activating/deactivating Party AI or using "T" for combats i dont see any member of my party attack close(very) hostile creatures unless they are attack 3 times or so. This is messy. I want Dak'kon fierce when i cast Balance in all things with Zerthimon's Focus on him. But he stops attacking when the one i clicked dies so i miss some attack rounds Dak'kon standing useless and usually results in loss of combat (I like to use it on crowded combats like Evil Wizard Construct) Additional information i had Fall from Grace in my party never saw her self-casting.

How can i have this work?

Thanks in advance

PS: Sorry about my poor grammer since i am not a navite speaker.


Mods installed (in order of installation)

PS:T Fixpack
PS:T UB
PS:T Widescreen (Big's)
PS:T Widescreen UI (Ghost Dog's)
PS:T Qwinn Tweak (Only Banter Accelaration)

#2 Qwinn

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 04:23 PM

Unfortunately, the AI as it stands isn't any better than what you've described. That's simply the way it is. The banter accelerator isn't messing with it at all. Or are you telling me that you -do- notice more intelligent AI without it installed? I'd be surprised if so, but I'll certainly look into it if you think that's what's happening. The only AI that it could possibly be affecting would be TNO's himself. The other member's AI scripts aren't changed at all.

That said, it -shouldn't- be causing any problems uninstalling, either. At least, I've never had such issues before. The only times I've had backward compatibility problems is when I uninstall something that creates an item that exists in my inventory, such as the Scale of Souls or the Tome of Cheats. Did you maybe uninstall those without realizing it too?

Qwinn

EDIT: Didn't notice the Fall from Grace not casting part before. That -is- odd, if you have combat AI turned on. She should, though she generally won't start healing till someone's down to roughly 50-70% health.

Edited by Qwinn, 19 December 2008 - 04:37 PM.


#3 --Leo--

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 08:35 PM

Unfortunately, the AI as it stands isn't any better than what you've described. That's simply the way it is. The banter accelerator isn't messing with it at all. Or are you telling me that you -do- notice more intelligent AI without it installed? I'd be surprised if so, but I'll certainly look into it if you think that's what's happening. The only AI that it could possibly be affecting would be TNO's himself. The other member's AI scripts aren't changed at all.

That said, it -shouldn't- be causing any problems uninstalling, either. At least, I've never had such issues before. The only times I've had backward compatibility problems is when I uninstall something that creates an item that exists in my inventory, such as the Scale of Souls or the Tome of Cheats. Did you maybe uninstall those without realizing it too?

Qwinn

EDIT: Didn't notice the Fall from Grace not casting part before. That -is- odd, if you have combat AI turned on. She should, though she generally won't start healing till someone's down to roughly 50-70% health.


Thanks for quick reply Qwinn

You might be right about the AI being poor. As far as i can remember first playing PS:T 7-8 years ago (4Cd ver.) Party AI set an aggressive mode maybe i am wrong. I just wanted to give it a shot and tried to uninstall the very last mod(tweak) to experience any effect.

I've tried uninstalling everything and reinstalling PS:T 1.1(2cd ver) without any mods. Run the game and in mortuary still AI isnt aggressive.
Please accept my apologies about Fall from Grace she auto heals when Party AI on depending on a certain percentage on Hp loss. Checked and verified.

We might confidently say mods and tweak listed above have nothing much about poor Party AI.

You might want to look into Banter Acc. or put a warning after verifying that saved games with Banter Acc. installed not working after uninstalling it. I am pretty sure about that.

Since a new fixpack is on the way i have this: After talking/killing Evil Wizard construct and talking to Nordom for his +1 Int +1 Dex 36.000 xp upgrade (How did he ended in Rubikon connected with Field test dialog) you can still reset the hard mode dungeon talk/kill Evil Wizard and re-upgrade Nordom.

Cheers

#4 -Guest-

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 10:11 PM

If you're looking for better AI there's http://www.gibberlin...rek/tseries.php

#5 Qwinn

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 11:13 PM

Wow, never saw that AI mod before. Cool. I'll have to check it out.

Qwinn

#6 Qwinn

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 11:47 PM

Ok, I checked it out, and ugh, you're right, uninstalling the banter accelerator makes save games no longer work.

And I know why. And it's a big problem peculiar to PS:T, not to be found among all the other IE games. And that's the VAR.VAR file.

All the other IE games allow for creating variables on the fly, and as you need them. PS:T doesn't. It has a file that defines every variable that ever gets used by every script and every dialogue in the game.

And if you uninstall -any- mod that added any variables, it removes them from the VAR.VAR. Then, when it finds values for those variables in your save game and the variable isn't defined, crash.

I really only have one solution for this. Add every variable created by any of my mods in the Fixpack. That way I can say that -only- uninstalling the Fixpack (or things like the tome of cheats, if you're holding one) will cause save games to go incompatible, which I think would be expected. The Fixpack cannot be uninstalled anyway, and this should make save games work despite uninstalling UB components and tweaks. (Come to think of it, mods that add creatures/items to the game, and your save game contains those areas or items saved, it'll crash anyway. But that's true of all IE mods and I think that's common knowledge and also expected, yes?)

Glad you let me know about this before release.

Since AI isn't an issue, you're okay with continuing your save games with the Accelerator, yes? Or do you still need me to come up with a way to uninstall it on yours?

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 20 December 2008 - 12:27 AM.


#7 Qwinn

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 12:46 AM

Yep, tested it, and that's what was causing the issue. Again, thanks for reporting it.

In previous versions of my mods, uninstalling the following components from UB and the Tweak Pack would always make save games that ever had them installed no longer function: Banter Accelerator, Restored Sounds and Banters, Candlestick Quest, Carl Parfidor, and Able-Ponderthought's Research.

In version 3.0 of the various mods, as long as you have the Fixpack installed, you should be able to uninstall all of those except the Candlestick Quest and still load save games without a problem (though I don't guarantee the old style of banter will then function... it should, but not gonna promise). As for the Candlestick quest, you should be able to uninstall it as long as you haven't entered the Buried Village yet in your save game.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 20 December 2008 - 12:51 AM.


#8 --Leo--

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 07:01 AM

Since no effect to AI, I dont want to uninstall it, i like what it does which is why i installed in the first place.

You are not mistaken about FixPack expectations. Uninstalling fixpack to cause crash of Saved Games that was created within fixpack is acceptable and expected.

Just an idea: You might write down pre install instructions for Banter Acc. including warning about saved games and giving an option to set default game setting making it turned off (if possible of course) rather than uninstall. Just an idea, maybe easier and safer. But still your fixpack solution is fine but seemed a hard and focused work to me :)

I am going to check that AI

Thanks again for everything. Waiting forward for the next release.


Cheers

#9 Qwinn

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 09:03 AM

Just an idea: You might write down pre install instructions for Banter Acc. including warning about saved games and giving an option to set default game setting making it turned off (if possible of course) rather than uninstall. Just an idea, maybe easier and safer. But still your fixpack solution is fine but seemed a hard and focused work to me


Nah :) It's done already. Would've been a bigger pain to write those warnings everywhere, then tracking down translators to get the additions in the readmes, etc., heh.

Qwinn

#10 Qwinn

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 09:07 AM

Hmmm, just realized, I'm going to have to test that AI mod to see if my mods are compatible with it. WeiDU mods are usually compatible with each other -unless- they're affecting the very same files, and in this case, I think they would be. Unfortunately, I dunno if there's a way to help that.

Sight unseen, I -think- you'd have a better chance getting my banter accelerator working smoothly with that AI mod if you installed his AI mod first. Again, though, I'll have to check sometime.

Qwinn

#11 -Serious Callers Only-

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 12:15 PM

I never could get that IA mod to work (i think it prevented talking to party members at will as torment permits). I think i was installing a lot of mods then and its likely that it won't work with yours.

#12 Qwinn

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 12:21 PM

I'll check it out at some future date. In the description the guy says he's happy to let others use his work as long as he gets credit in the documentation for it, which I have no problem extending. Perhaps I can make it work as he intended in a way that works with my mods, and I can thus include it in the tweak pack, with credit given.

Qwinn

#13 --Leo--

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 01:42 PM

If you're looking for better AI there's http://www.gibberlin...rek/tseries.php


This works great as far as i used. And you can make modifications for yourself if you spare time and go through files. Thanks for pointing this out.

#14 Qwinn

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 02:06 PM

Leo,

Did banters continue to work alright after the addition of that mod?

If so, awesome.

Qwinn

#15 --Leo--

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 03:00 PM

Leo,

Did banters continue to work alright after the addition of that mod?

If so, awesome.

Qwinn



I am now making fine tune of Party AI scripts according to my play (Increasing XP value requirements of actions mostly)

Nothing caused a crash yet. If you asking if Banter Acc. functioning i cant say yet since havent played continuosly more than 5 min.

I can check it out if you tell me what should i do exactly to understand Banter Acc. is working proper.

#16 Qwinn

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 03:18 PM

Just rest anywhere. That should kick off a banter. My banter accelerator works off game time, not real time.

Travelling to or from the Lower or Clerk's Ward usually kicks one off to, as there is significant travel time involved. Depends on the interval between banters that you picked at install, of course.

Qwinn

#17 --Leo--

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 03:36 PM

Just rest anywhere. That should kick off a banter. My banter accelerator works off game time, not real time.

Travelling to or from the Lower or Clerk's Ward usually kicks one off to, as there is significant travel time involved. Depends on the interval between banters that you picked at install, of course.

Qwinn


I tried those:

Installed tSeries Party AI over Banter Acc. --> AI working, Banter Acc. not working
Installed Banter Acc. over tSeries Party AI --> Both working

It is as what you've thought.