I am a long time Torment fan that just discovered these mods the other day and am amazed at the work that has gone into them to make a great game even better. Just wanted to offer my thanks to the authors and post a couple of suggestions/things I have noticed so far in my playthrough.
First, I was pleased to see that the expanded Morte introduction was included and that most of the inconsistencies from the restoration pack such as the different language for the tattoo were resolved. I personally take issue with the journal entry the intro adds, however. It leaves the player with essentially two introductory entries that have the same basic idea of, I lost my journal and am starting a new one, which comes across as awkward. Furthermore, this entry is added before the dialogue between TNO and Morte in which Morte actually suggests starting a journal. I used nearinfinity to take out the added journal entry from the restored intro and think this would be a good thing to do in UB, but this does come down to personal preference rather than being an actual fix per se.
Second, I was also glad to see the candlestick quest was implemented without the funky neon characters. One flaw with this quest, however, is that if you die in the tomb, you respawn in the tomb, which can lead to a quite painful endless loop of dying if one is unprepared. A new respawn point would seem in order.
Third, I personally find it odd that Emoric's quests do not give journal entries. I realize that giving these quests jorunal entries would be creation of new marterial rather than restorations and that this is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things at all, but I just thought I would point it out.
Finally, I was just curious if you had given any thought to creating new material for underused characters like Old Coppereyes or adding new subquests to Curst that have no bearing on the plot or lore but make the area feel less rushed. I realize this is beyond both your stated goals and the current scope of the project, but notice you are already beginning to go that direction a little bit with the expanded truth content and potentional Amulet of Yemeth expansion.
Once again, your mods are amazing, and I thank you for enriching an already wonderful game.
Thoughts on the mod
Started by Indrian, Jan 03 2009 08:11 PM
2 replies to this topic
#2
Qwinn
-
- Modder
-
- 3092 posts
Posted 03 January 2009 - 10:59 PM
Great post, thanks for dropping by 
I checked, and the vanilla shorter intro does not add any journal entry. So, yeah, I agree with you, I'll remove that journal entry as 1) it is in fact inconsistent with the bit about starting a new journal during the walkthrough, and 2) it seems the designers were okay with not having a journal entry to guide you through getting out of the first room, so, yeah, I'll take it out for the next full version, whenever that comes out.
I agree it's an issue, but there's a big problem with your suggested solution. What if, for some reason, you didn't have the exit item that is supposed to get you out of there? If that's the case, you should actually be trapped in there permanently. I don't know that I can justify your somehow automatically magically transporting through a portal while you're dead, especially since it's possible you can lack the key.
Also, unless you are for some bizarre reason completely unable to damage the critters in the tomb (and I can't see why you couldn't), it won't be "endless". The creatures don't heal between your resurrections, so you should eventually be able to take them down through attrition even if the rest of the party gets killed. And frankly, given your immortality, that's probably the most "realistic" way to address the issue... you really -would- keep resurrecting and getting killed till you managed to wear them down. Or, you could actually run away from the critters and escape the tomb via the portal. But I don't think it makes sense to transport them out automatically upon death.
I agree the issue is problematic. Perhaps they're even the reason the quest wasn't fully implemented. I don't know of a better solution than what we've got though. (And for the record, the game shipped with the file that sets the respawn point there, I didn't add it.)
Well, they do add entries in the quest journal. There are indeed some quests that only add those, without adding entries in your diary. I'm leaning toward just leaving it as is, as I tend to shy away from adding new dialogue unless it's pretty necessary. Unless someone can find entries in the dialogue file that correspond to appropriate diary entries, of course. If so, I'd be happy to restore them.
I think there is room for someone to do a restoration-type mod regarding Coppereyes and the fake Dustman contracts, as there -is- a fair amount of original content pointing toward that intention. I also always thought there -should- be some consequence to signing multiple ones, as Fell's dialogue strongly implies that there were supposed to be. No idea what, though. As far as potential restorations I'd personally be interested in doing, it's fairly high up there, or will be if I get some inspiration of how to go about it. If someone else wants to take a shot at writing it, go for it, as I said my next intent for semi-original content is the Expanded Pendant of Yemeth quest and that's gonna take me a while.
As for Curst, eh. I think the dozen or so characters restored by the Restored Curst Citizens and Restored Curst Prisoners components go a long way toward fleshing out those areas and making them feel less rushed. The one thing I think I might do is rename the Curst Citizens. Giving them their proper names over their heads, like most creatures, would probably be helpful in leading people to their content. As it stands, most of them are named things like "Angry Curst Citizen" and whatnot, even if they actually tell you their name in their dialogue file. Hopefully people aren't simply passing by them because of that.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm very glad you enjoyed it
Qwinn
First, I was pleased to see that the expanded Morte introduction was included and that most of the inconsistencies from the restoration pack such as the different language for the tattoo were resolved. I personally take issue with the journal entry the intro adds, however. It leaves the player with essentially two introductory entries that have the same basic idea of, I lost my journal and am starting a new one, which comes across as awkward. Furthermore, this entry is added before the dialogue between TNO and Morte in which Morte actually suggests starting a journal. I used nearinfinity to take out the added journal entry from the restored intro and think this would be a good thing to do in UB, but this does come down to personal preference rather than being an actual fix per se.
I checked, and the vanilla shorter intro does not add any journal entry. So, yeah, I agree with you, I'll remove that journal entry as 1) it is in fact inconsistent with the bit about starting a new journal during the walkthrough, and 2) it seems the designers were okay with not having a journal entry to guide you through getting out of the first room, so, yeah, I'll take it out for the next full version, whenever that comes out.
Second, I was also glad to see the candlestick quest was implemented without the funky neon characters. One flaw with this quest, however, is that if you die in the tomb, you respawn in the tomb, which can lead to a quite painful endless loop of dying if one is unprepared. A new respawn point would seem in order.
I agree it's an issue, but there's a big problem with your suggested solution. What if, for some reason, you didn't have the exit item that is supposed to get you out of there? If that's the case, you should actually be trapped in there permanently. I don't know that I can justify your somehow automatically magically transporting through a portal while you're dead, especially since it's possible you can lack the key.
Also, unless you are for some bizarre reason completely unable to damage the critters in the tomb (and I can't see why you couldn't), it won't be "endless". The creatures don't heal between your resurrections, so you should eventually be able to take them down through attrition even if the rest of the party gets killed. And frankly, given your immortality, that's probably the most "realistic" way to address the issue... you really -would- keep resurrecting and getting killed till you managed to wear them down. Or, you could actually run away from the critters and escape the tomb via the portal. But I don't think it makes sense to transport them out automatically upon death.
I agree the issue is problematic. Perhaps they're even the reason the quest wasn't fully implemented. I don't know of a better solution than what we've got though. (And for the record, the game shipped with the file that sets the respawn point there, I didn't add it.)
Third, I personally find it odd that Emoric's quests do not give journal entries. I realize that giving these quests jorunal entries would be creation of new marterial rather than restorations and that this is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things at all, but I just thought I would point it out.
Well, they do add entries in the quest journal. There are indeed some quests that only add those, without adding entries in your diary. I'm leaning toward just leaving it as is, as I tend to shy away from adding new dialogue unless it's pretty necessary. Unless someone can find entries in the dialogue file that correspond to appropriate diary entries, of course. If so, I'd be happy to restore them.
Finally, I was just curious if you had given any thought to creating new material for underused characters like Old Coppereyes or adding new subquests to Curst that have no bearing on the plot or lore but make the area feel less rushed. I realize this is beyond both your stated goals and the current scope of the project, but notice you are already beginning to go that direction a little bit with the expanded truth content and potentional Amulet of Yemeth expansion.
I think there is room for someone to do a restoration-type mod regarding Coppereyes and the fake Dustman contracts, as there -is- a fair amount of original content pointing toward that intention. I also always thought there -should- be some consequence to signing multiple ones, as Fell's dialogue strongly implies that there were supposed to be. No idea what, though. As far as potential restorations I'd personally be interested in doing, it's fairly high up there, or will be if I get some inspiration of how to go about it. If someone else wants to take a shot at writing it, go for it, as I said my next intent for semi-original content is the Expanded Pendant of Yemeth quest and that's gonna take me a while.
As for Curst, eh. I think the dozen or so characters restored by the Restored Curst Citizens and Restored Curst Prisoners components go a long way toward fleshing out those areas and making them feel less rushed. The one thing I think I might do is rename the Curst Citizens. Giving them their proper names over their heads, like most creatures, would probably be helpful in leading people to their content. As it stands, most of them are named things like "Angry Curst Citizen" and whatnot, even if they actually tell you their name in their dialogue file. Hopefully people aren't simply passing by them because of that.
Once again, your mods are amazing, and I thank you for enriching an already wonderful game.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm very glad you enjoyed it
Qwinn
Edited by Qwinn, 03 January 2009 - 11:42 PM.
#3
rtr86
-
- Member
- 46 posts
Posted 04 January 2009 - 08:20 AM
First, I was pleased to see that the expanded Morte introduction was included and that most of the inconsistencies from the restoration pack such as the different language for the tattoo were resolved. I personally take issue with the journal entry the intro adds, however. It leaves the player with essentially two introductory entries that have the same basic idea of, I lost my journal and am starting a new one, which comes across as awkward. Furthermore, this entry is added before the dialogue between TNO and Morte in which Morte actually suggests starting a journal. I used nearinfinity to take out the added journal entry from the restored intro and think this would be a good thing to do in UB, but this does come down to personal preference rather than being an actual fix per se.
I noticed this. i initially thought it was because I had a high intelligent character who had the foresight to start a new journal without Mort's guidance.
Edited by rtr86, 04 January 2009 - 11:10 AM.
