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Alchemy HLA revision - [IMPLEMENTED]


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#1 aVENGER

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 10:02 AM

I've been thinking about revising the Alchemy HLA for RR v4.1. Basically, I don't like three things about it:

1) The end results are random i.e. you can't chose which potion you want
2) Potions can be brewed while enemies are nearby (i.e. even during combat)
3) The player can create potions out of thin air (no cost) and earn easy money by selling them

So, in order to rectify that, I've thought about making this HLA dialogue based. For example, using Alchemy will now open up a dialogue tree (with an invisible creature) and allow the player to select precisely which potion he wants to brew. Here's an example:

Posted Image


As you can see, potions are no longer free, they now have a raw material cost which needs to be covered. FYI, to get the costs displayed here, I had taken the base prices of the items in question and divided them by half. That way, the player pays fort the potions much less than he would to a merchant (even with maxed Charisma and Reputation) but still can't make a profit by selling them (though it's pretty close). Also, I think Bards and Thieves should be able to create slightly different potions i.e. Thieves focusing more on the thievery and combat aspects and Bards on protection and magical effects. So, here are the proposed Alchemy versions:


Alchemy (Thief version)

With cleverness innate to the class, an experienced thief has seen enough potions in his or her adventuring career to simulate the creation of one. Using the Alchemy skill, a thief can brew any potion from the following list:

1) Potion of Master Thievery
2) Potion of Perception
3) Potion of Invisibility
4) Potion of Defense
5) Potion of Extra Healing
6) Antidote
7) Oil of Speed
8) Oil of Fiery Burning
9) Potion of Frost Giant Strength, only usable by thieves or bards

Note: brewing potions is a delicate process which can only be undertaken in safe (non-hostile) areas. The thief can choose which potion he wants to brew. Raw material costs vary for different potions.



Alchemy (Bard version)

With cleverness innate to the class, an experienced bard has seen enough potions in his or her adventuring career to simulate the creation of one. Using the Alchemy skill, a bard can brew any potion from the following list:

1) Potion of Mind Focusing
2) Potion of Clarity
3) Potion of Regeneration
4) Potion of Defense
5) Potion of Extra Healing
6) Antidote
7) Oil of Speed
8) Potion of Freedom
9) Potion of Frost Giant Strength, only usable by thieves or bards

Note: brewing potions is a delicate process which can only be undertaken in safe (non-hostile) areas. The bard can choose which potion he wants to brew. Raw material costs vary for different potions.


Also, as you can see I've currently restricted the use of the Alchemy HLA to non-combat situations. I've even thought about restricting it solely to City areas (ARE files with a CITY flag) at one point (due to the raw material and equipment accessibility) but I've opted against it since some players might find it annoying. It currently only checks whether there are enemies nearby or if the party is in combat. Should I prevent its use in dungeon areas (ARE files with a DUNGEON flag) as well or would that be too tedious? I originally also wanted to make some time pass after using this ability, but unfortunately, the BG2 version of the Infinity Engine has very limited support for this (which sometimes causes unforeseen issues) so I ultimately chose not to do it. Any thoughts?

Edited by aVENGER, 07 March 2009 - 12:56 PM.


#2 kthxbye

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 07:37 AM

I wouldn't prevent its use in dungeons, because if you can sleep (or, anyway, rest for 8 hours without enemies) you should also be able to brew a potion. Roleplaying-wise, it could make sense to link the use of the Alchemy HLA to rest, so that the potion is created during the rest period. The problem would be if more than one character wants to create a potion during the same period, or if a character can use the HLA more than once without resting.

Apart from that, same thing I wrote in the Scribe Scrolls topic: roleplaying-wise I really like it, but having to pay for every potion could make the HLA too expensive to use it often (even if the brew potions costs are much lower than the scribe scrolls ones I see, so it could be true for Scribe Scrolls and not for Brew Potions). Again, I think that Revised HLA mod changes that too, and in the BGW install it comes after RR, so beware of clashes.
All of the above must be considered totally IMHO.

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#3 aVENGER

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 10:07 AM

I wouldn't prevent its use in dungeons, because if you can sleep (or, anyway, rest for 8 hours without enemies) you should also be able to brew a potion.


Good point, I'm inclined to agree.

Roleplaying-wise, it could make sense to link the use of the Alchemy HLA to rest, so that the potion is created during the rest period. The problem would be if more than one character wants to create a potion during the same period, or if a character can use the HLA more than once without resting.


As noted earlier, passing time in the BG2 version of the IE is fairly quirky so I don't think I'll be using that.

#4 GeN1e

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 06:52 AM

It might be good to not just ~Create a potion~, but to use actual recipes - like mixing weaker potions, adding some reagents like gems (I did it for Magical Trap, former Timestop one).

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#5 aVENGER

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 07:21 AM

It might be good to not just ~Create a potion~, but to use actual recipes - like mixing weaker potions, adding some reagents like gems


Pass.

I'm not very fond of the "component hunting" concept in this particular regard.

Edited by aVENGER, 11 March 2009 - 07:22 AM.


#6 Hannibal

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 04:26 PM

5) Potion of Extra Healing


By the time you get HLAs, you'll be literally drowning in extra healing potions, unless you make it a point to never loot containers and enemies. I'd seriously consider replacing these with superior healing potions.

6) Antidote


I'd replace these with elixirs of health. Those are a bit less marginal.

Keep up the good work, aVENGER!

#7 aVENGER

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 06:01 PM

Both points you bring up are valid.

I'll consider this for the next release.

#8 amazinggameguru

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 05:04 PM

Okay, as long as you are in there changing things around I would love to see this ability turn into something better than it is. By the time I get high level abilities creating potions and selling them is something I would never do, I usually have an extreme excess of gold and nothing to spend it on. Most of the potions are ones that I wouldn't bother making either. I would love to see unique potions created that do something more than normal. The potion of Frost Giant strength is cool because you can't normally use that. What if the potion of haste was actually improved haste or a double duration haste, a potion of improved invisibility. Have a potion that triggers a couple of effects, there are a lot of possibilities and the ability would be worth using.
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#9 aVENGER

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 06:41 PM

I would love to see unique potions created that do something more than normal.


Sounds interesting, but it doesn't really fit the concept that RR's aiming at.

It might make a nice addition for some other mod though.

#10 Tassadar88

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 12:33 AM

Stopping about it, I wonder why the character should not be able to make a profit from making these potions. Roleplaying wise, a rogue with good charisma should be able to get good prices on reagents and it is assumed that profit can be made making and selling potions. Also, reducing the potions cost would make the HLA more likely to be used :)
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#11 aVENGER

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 11:19 PM

Stopping about it, I wonder why the character should not be able to make a profit from making these potions. Roleplaying wise, a rogue with good charisma should be able to get good prices on reagents and it is assumed that profit can be made making and selling potions.


Conceptually it would probably make sense, however, that restriction is there for gameplay reasons. In my view, giving the player means to make money by using an ability which can be easily replenished via resting would not be very balanced (despite the fact that gold comes in tons by ToB).

OTOH, the current implementation benefits the player in so far that he pays much less for a potion created by Alchemy than he would for buying the same potion from a store. This way, the player can still save some money by using the ability but he can't abuse it as an infinite source of income.

#12 @vGur

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 05:51 AM

Well, if You are not against the 3ed D&D, To use your HLA character need Alchemist?s lab - 500 gp 40 lb.
In that case, You'll need someone like minsc, to be a donkey, but that way things looks more livier (and not that overpowered - as russians say - If You like to ride the sled, you must like to carry it). Another idea - allow brewing all potions to all classes, with no restrictions, in that way even mages or clerics can use your HLA (idea of plenty alchemy HLAs for every class has no sense for me, science is scince for bard, as it is for mage), and add some lore for knowing alchemy, coz with mods - potions are unidentified & it looks strange when your char can't identify potion, but can brew it.

p.s. maeby you can brew some poison, that if used set (poison) damage on hit melee effect to character, for next 10 hits or all next day (but if long term used, character can change weapon, in that case poison damage will look strange, but if you write something like *poisoning all your weapon* in descripyion, it still fine for me).

p.p.s Great mod!!! :clap: Good Luck.