25 replies to this topic

[Kaeloree]

Check it out here.

An interesting read, even if the creator didn't finish it. Nothing really new, but presents some interesting ideas as to the origin of ME and why it failed--nothing terribly innovative, but considering how few articles like it I've seen, I thought it might be worth posting a link to.

[Nc.Hroft]

The main answer to "Why Masseffect failed" is simple. Consoles. Thats it.

My main fear is, that smth like this happerns to DA. I'll consider suicide if it does . I really, REALLY hate Electronic Arts. REALLY. And Bioware for selling out to them.

Edited by Nc.Hroft, 31 March 2009 - 01:51 AM.

[Kaeloree]

I'm actually quite fond of consoles, myself. I play both PC and console games, and they both have merit. I actually think Mass Effect was far more successful due to consoles--at least in terms of finance.

[Yovaneth]

A bit off-topic but I doubt that BioWare 'sold out' to EA. Once one publically-listed company sets its sights on buying another publically-listed company, that's the end of the story for the guy that's about to be bought. I worked for a small company that was listed on Wall Street; time and again the MD said we would not be sold. However, a somewhat bigger company set their sights on us and bought up a majority holding by buying on the stockmarket. We were never sold, but we were certainly bought.

</offtopic>

-Y-

Edited by Yovaneth, 31 March 2009 - 12:33 PM.

[DavidWallace]

I'm quite surprised to see it called a failure. Personally I found it the best game I've played since BG2.

[Nc.Hroft]

I'm quite surprised to see it called a failure. Personally I found it the best game I've played since BG2.

I see it as worst of the BioWare game. 2nd worst is Jade Empire...

Not only the gameplay of ME suxx (which is obvious, due to it being action-RPG, which i hate). The story is just ridiculous, and not deep at all. Characters a totally roflmao. Romances suck (choosing between blue skinned alien with tentacles on the head and imbecile-farmgirl-wannabe-soldier is n/c). Each of the party NPC's has 3-4 dialogs and 1 quest at best, and that's all. The way they picture aliens is just rofl - this aliens arent aliens at all!! They'r just humans with other looks. I mean, orcs or dwarves from most fantasy settings are waaaaay more alien, than these. Alter-ego sux, he's what i expect to see in some Van Damm movie , not a BioWare roleplaying game. And the story too, VERY much resembles some retarded Hollywood film (2nd class one). I've played plenty fan modules with much better story and characters. Side quests and planets are totally identical, its just rofl how they expect me to go travel to other systems just to survey some planets, drop on 1 of them, go clear 1-2 buildings and examine 2-3 rocks or satelite, and call this "HUGE UNIVERSE". Gameplay with completing 80% of the quests (totally retarded ones, i add), and cleaning this identical planet missions is about 20 hours. Nuff said.

Edited by Nc.Hroft, 31 March 2009 - 01:22 PM.

[theacefes]

I think what many here do not take into consideration is that our community is still a small niche compared to what the surveyed market for gamers is. What the IE community may think is stupid may be the most popular thing ever and vice versa. Whoever is funding the games wants to make sure they at least break even or get *something* for their very very expensive source code.

[Philiposophy]

I liked Mass Effect so I wouldn't call it a failure as a game.

With that said I can find quite a few problems. The side mission planets are so similar with the same base interiors everywhere and the plot has some flaws in it. It's no match for an RPG like Torment or BG2 but I still liked it.

I think theacefes is right: the game was big so it cost a lot to make. You're only going to make that money back and deliver a profit if it appeals to lots of people and not just a small (but enlightened ) crowd.

[theacefes]

We also have to remember that you could have the most talented programmers working on a project with the most talented artists and it will still be unsatisfactory because those people just get handed a task and a deadline. Bioware is a big company and I'm sure that the producers don't go around and ask each employee's opinion on "How do you think the romance should go?" etc. A bit different from modding no?

[GeN1e]

EA is evil.

[DavidWallace]

I'm quite surprised to see it called a failure. Personally I found it the best game I've played since BG2.

I see it as worst of the BioWare game.

Which I guess just goes to show how tastes vary! I'll write a response, but it's not really an attempt at persuasion (you either like something or you don't), just for interest really.

2nd worst is Jade Empire...

I liked that a lot too... but I guess that's another story.

Not only the gameplay of ME suxx (which is obvious, due to it being action-RPG, which i hate).

I found it a really interesting difference, actually - it's at a very different level of abstraction than IE combat (cover matters, that kind of thing). Though I have essentially no experience of that kind of combat, so I don't know how it compares.

The story is just ridiculous, and not deep at all.

What did you think was ridiculous? I thought it was pretty plausible (given the setting, obviously!).

Characters a totally roflmao. Romances suck (choosing between blue skinned alien with tentacles on the head and imbecile-farmgirl-wannabe-soldier is n/c). Each of the party NPC's has 3-4 dialogs and 1 quest at best, and that's all.

NPCs not a strong point, I agree.

The way they picture aliens is just rofl - this aliens arent aliens at all!! They'r just humans with other looks. I mean, orcs or dwarves from most fantasy settings are waaaaay more alien, than these.

But the thing is, real aliens would be so extraordinarily ALIEN that it's pretty difficult to see how you could imagine them, let alone put them into an RPG as joinable characters. So I think this is reasonable suspension of disbelief.

Alter-ego sux, he's what i expect to see in some Van Damm movie , not a BioWare roleplaying game.

Don't know what that means, sorry.

And the story too, VERY much resembles some retarded Hollywood film (2nd class one). I've played plenty fan modules with much better story and characters.

Again, not sure what you actually dislike about the story, so hard to reply to this. I liked it. (But then, I have a semi-professional interest in the Fermi paradox, so it's kinda cool to see it addressed in a computer game.)

Side quests and planets are totally identical,

Fair criticism.

its just rofl how they expect me to go travel to other systems just to survey some planets, drop on 1 of them, go clear 1-2 buildings and examine 2-3 rocks or satelite, and call this "HUGE UNIVERSE".

I guess that depends partly how you find the background text etc. I found it gave an impression of richness, but then I'm physics-trained.

Gameplay with completing 80% of the quests (totally retarded ones, i add), and cleaning this identical planet missions is about 20 hours. Nuff said.

I think it took us (i.e. my wife and me) more like 30-40. - but to be honest, I don't actually mind spending £40 for a 20-hour game. £2 per hour compares pretty favourably to most other forms of entertainment, and that's not allowing for replay value.

[theacefes]

I think it took us (i.e. my wife and me) more like 30-40. - but to be honest, I don't actually mind spending £40 for a 20-hour game. £2 per hour compares pretty favourably to most other forms of entertainment, and that's not allowing for replay value.

Seriously. You should see what they are charging to see a movie in theatres here. Not even worth it half the time. I'd rather spend 50-60 dollars on a game. I personally prefer graphics over lines and lines of descriptive text.

[Philiposophy]

The story is just ridiculous, and not deep at all.

What did you think was ridiculous? I thought it was pretty plausible (given the setting, obviously!).

*****Spoilers ahead*****

I'll just chip in here: I thought that the overall plot itself was okay (quite exciting really, especially near the end) but there are some bits which I thought were a bit poorly done because they happened too fast and/or seemed implausible. Saren committing suicide after you persuade him a bit? That was weak, as was him doubting himself on Virmire and in the Citadel. I know the guy's naturally high intellect made a bit of a buffer against Sovereign but he was absolutely devoted to the cause. I can't imagine Shepard, a man (or woman of course) that he despises, being able to convince him that everything he's doing is wrong and lead him to fight back that quickly!

[theacefes]

It seems to me that there were a lot of smaller topics they could have expanded on but for whatever reason they didn't (npc plots, saren, etc). It would have been nice to see a bit of Shepard's background, and maybe even visit Earth!

[Nc.Hroft]

I think it took us (i.e. my wife and me) more like 30-40. - but to be honest, I don't actually mind spending £40 for a 20-hour game. £2 per hour compares pretty favourably to most other forms of entertainment, and that's not allowing for replay value.

Seriously. You should see what they are charging to see a movie in theatres here. Not even worth it half the time. I'd rather spend 50-60 dollars on a game. I personally prefer graphics over lines and lines of descriptive text.

And i prefer better story, indepth characters and challenging roleplaying system with worse graphic to some useless game with flawless graphics. Masseffect is not totally useless, but close to it. Ill never buy ME2-3-etc.

[theacefes]

It's an age old debate that will never end I guess.

My purpose in posting was to inform others, if they weren't already, that being a PC modding community, we're not in the mainstream demographic for what sells and what doesn't.

[Ismail]

Okay, grats, NC Croft. You managed to drag me out from under my rock where I've spent the last 4 or whatever years.


I don't know what exactly you play, generally, but I can tell (by your presence here) you play, or at least have played extensively, Baldur's Gate II.

You critize the story of Mass Effect, while that of BG2 is weaker; you criticize NPCs, while those of BG2 are almost all weaker; you critize the aliens, while every single non-human race in BG 2 (well, DnD and fantasy in general, tbh) is the personification of one or two human traits, and nothing more. The only fair criticism is the weakness of side-quests, while the main quest-line in Mass Effect is far stronger than in... hmm, just about any Bioware game I've played, to be honest. Well, and also about the Mass Effect combat system (vs BG2 combat system) if you suck at controlling the character personally and want the computer to roll things for you. As for the "hollywood movie" comparison... Well, BG2 would be an Uwe Boll movie or something, honestly.

The criticism in the article, however, is fairly valid. There's no modding tools or anything, only one DLC etc. Not so sure what to think of patches, because I never ran into any sorts of problems with Mass Effect, except a few times when I didn't get to sleep before half past 11 am or so

but... Mass Effect "a failure"? Uhh... No? The only "failure" about it was that it wasn't released for PC right away, the same idiocy that currently plagues Fable 2, for example. But Mass Effect was easily the most enjoyable sci-fi RPG in the past years - yes, better than Fallout 3, sadly.

[theacefes]

AFAIK there is a new dlc in the making. As for the patches, they aren't bad, but there is still a lot to be fixed (terrain looks blacked out on some planets still). Based on the various news articles I've read, I think that they are releasing PC and XBOX360 versions of ME2 at the same time. They're not sure if there will be ps3 version though, honestly I doubt it.

Not saying this is you NC Croft, but I find that many people who like to talk trash about modern games played it once on a friend's PC and haven't the console or PC to run the game themselves. Not saying that's you, but it's a lot of other people for sure.

[DavidWallace]

but... Mass Effect "a failure"? Uhh... No? The only "failure" about it was that it wasn't released for PC right away, the same idiocy that currently plagues Fable 2, for example.

I thought that was great, actually (and I'm a PC user). It meant several months of bugfixing and general optimising. I hope they do the same for ME2. (In general, I'd rather games took as long as possible to release, since most of them seem to be rushed somewhere.)

[Nc.Hroft]

Okay, grats, NC Croft. You managed to drag me out from under my rock where I've spent the last 4 or whatever years.

Im flattered .

I don't know what exactly you play, generally, but I can tell (by your presence here) you play, or at least have played extensively, Baldur's Gate II.

My favourites are Baldur's Gate (BGT), Planescape:Torment, Fallout 1-2, KotoR, Arcanum. To lesser extent - Morrowind, KotoR2, The Witcher, Fallout 3, NwN (HotU and MotB), Oblivion, Raimond Feist's Krondor.
I also play Warcraft3, TotalWar series (Shogun-Medieval-Rome etc), and games from Relic studios (Warhammer: DoW 1&2, Company of Heroes).

You critize the story of Mass Effect, while that of BG2 is weaker;

That's a rofl. Story of The Saga is like a book, a good one i may say. It takes you. Its long, indepth (especially with mods) and fascinating. On par with Glen Cook's, Andrzej Sapkowski's, or George Martin's books. And Mass Effect story is: "Oh well, some machines aliens wanna kill all life in the galaxy, so some Great <s>American</s>Aliance Hero, Simple Guy, Yet Mighty and Brave Soldier (instert "Van Damm" or "Rutger Hauer" here) and his loayal companions are going to save it". Pathetic. Its like comparing "Game of Thrones" or "The Black Company" to, indeed, 2nd class Hollywood movie.

you criticize NPCs, while those of BG2 are almost all weaker

Roflmao again. ME NPCs?!?!?! What's that?! Sad bunch of usuall patterns (Good-yet-antibureaucratic-police-officer, intellectual-and-lifeless-scientist, fearfull-mercenary-with-good-soul-under-his-armor, simple-and-goodhearted-farmgirl-soldier) etc.

you critize the aliens, while every single non-human race in BG 2 (well, DnD and fantasy in general, tbh) is the personification of one or two human traits, and nothing more.

Thats human nature, we cant imagine sentient beings that would be too different from ourselves (Grandmaster's of SciFi/Fantasy can though, but they rarely write scripts for games). D&D non-human races at least try to be non-human, while ME aliens dont do even that (or fail heavily).

Well, and also about the Mass Effect combat system (vs BG2 combat system) if you suck at controlling the character personally and want the computer to roll things for you.

When i want action, i go play Counterstrike or GTA. When i play RPG, i want indepth roleplaying system and good tactical battles. ME battles are just pityfull. Use ability-shoot-use ability-shoot-use ability...

Edited by Nc.Hroft, 02 April 2009 - 02:13 AM.