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#1 Mistress Elysia

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 12:20 AM

Okay - the time to work on this mod is definitely nigh, considering how much it kept me up last night, bombarding me with ideas for possible new material. However, some of them I'm a bit torn on... whilst I do try to go with my gut on these things, sometimes my gut has a metaphorical brainfart (a bit like how, when you've had one too many, that egg, onion and curry sauce sandwich seems like such a good and tasty option, riiight up until that moment when you take your first big bite...) and so it is nice to get outside opinions.

It was always my intention to make Fade more than 'just a romance mod' and add in equivalent material for non-romancing males and female PCs. With regards to this, I have had two ideas floating around for a while:

For non-romancing male PCs: If you let Fade down nicely / gently early on in her romance path (via a player initiated dialogue), that will kick off the male 'friendship' track. I figured, however, that just because you don't want to romance Fade, she wiil automatically not find you attractive - so I figured for non-romancing males, I might write an 'unrequited love' subplot, with a possible chance to requite it in ToB (if the player so wishes). She won't try to steal you away from your current love interest per se, but unless you are absolutely foul to her (and even then, she can't deny her heart completely), she will still initiate dialogues that might be mildly flirtatious in nature - I thought this might also give the current romance (Bioware ones only initially) a good chance to show some reaction / get jealous / be a bit insecure themselves. You know, just like in real life...  :P Good idea? Bad idea? Indifferent idea?

For female PCs: there will be a friendship track (already started on this), but in lieu of a Bhaalspawn to fancy, I thought Fade might turn her affections to another victim: namedly Valygar. There has already been ground laid that she quite likes Valygar (yes, this is author bias too; I am just a complete sucker for that whole 'stoic warrior' thing), but again, should it be unrequited, or should Valygar eventually reciprocate? I have to admit, I am erring on the side of it being unrequited (but then again, I like torturing my own creations   :devil: ), but I could be easily swayed if people want it requited.

For female PCs romancing Anomen: Yes, I am guilty as charged with regards to ridiculing this much maligned character, and so I am rather keen to set the record straight a bit and allow female PC's to discuss why they are with Anomen... again - good idea / bad idea / indifferent idea?

Any input is very much welcome!

The Timely Resurrection of Fade!
Mistress Elysia's fantasy artwork.
Where Darkness Resides: A Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark fanfic

I want to live, I want to experience the universe and I want to eat pie.

"Oh, little ice cream friends! Thog delays boredom-driven rampage only for you!"


#2 Der Gerdner

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 06:44 AM

I have to answer, it simply made my day to see Fade back! (Red Wings won, sun shines and Fade is back - what can go wrong?)

It was always my intention to make Fade more than 'just a romance mod' and add in equivalent material for non-romancing males and female PCs.

Fade has never been 'just a romance mod'. Understood? Good. :angry:

With regards to this, I have had two ideas floating around for a while:

For non-romancing male PCs: If you let Fade down nicely / gently early on in her romance path (via a player initiated dialogue), that will kick off the male 'friendship' track. I figured, however, that just because you don't want to romance Fade, she wiil automatically not find you attractive - so I figured for non-romancing males, I might write an 'unrequited love' subplot, with a possible chance to requite it in ToB (if the player so wishes). She won't try to steal you away from your current love interest per se, but unless you are absolutely foul to her (and even then, she can't deny her heart completely), she will still initiate dialogues that might be mildly flirtatious in nature - I thought this might also give the current romance (Bioware ones only initially) a good chance to show some reaction / get jealous / be a bit insecure themselves. You know, just like in real life... :P Good idea? Bad idea? Indifferent idea?

The unrequited love thing is a nice and unsual idea seeing others are always pissed when something happens like Tashia or Tsujatha. There's a reason why you like someone and that doesn't change with one wrong answer. If there is another chance - why not? That is definetly something I like to see. When Fade declares her love she asks if they can still be friends so a friendship from then on should be only natural. One thing that made Fade so great was her honesty when it comes to her feelings so she should stay true to that path and not get bitchy in ToB because the PC favoured another. If it didn't work with whoever it was a new attempt with Fade sounds wonderful.

For female PCs: there will be a friendship track (already started on this), but in lieu of a Bhaalspawn to fancy, I thought Fade might turn her affections to another victim: namedly Valygar. There has already been ground laid that she quite likes Valygar (yes, this is author bias too; I am just a complete sucker for that whole 'stoic warrior' thing), but again, should it be unrequited, or should Valygar eventually reciprocate? I have to admit, I am erring on the side of it being unrequited (but then again, I like torturing my own creations :devil: ), but I could be easily swayed if people want it requited.

Fade - Valygar might not be the best idea. For example there is the Xan mod, where Valygar supports the female PC after Xan's death beyond friendship. Romantic Encounters also features a component with Valygar. That could cause quirks that are either strange or funny like Imoen being romanced by the PC, Chloe and Kelsey. Both mods are still supported, however, so it could work. Seeing that you already have a friendship running I guess you can work it out.
When I think about both personalities of Fade and Valygar that sounds rather interesting. Would she drive him nuts, could she be soured, could he loosen up? He doesn't seem to like unnatural things and beings. Don't know how far this goes, it's one thing to befriend her another to fall in love. I'm undecided on this, but don't take it as discouragement. It simply means I take it both ways.

For female PCs romancing Anomen: Yes, I am guilty as charged with regards to ridiculing this much maligned character, and so I am rather keen to set the record straight a bit and allow female PC's to discuss why they are with Anomen... again - good idea / bad idea / indifferent idea?

The romance reaction is clearly a great idea. I really loved that in the BG1NPC project. Party members reacting to you, why or how you could do that or talk to your love interest about that relationship. That your companions make the growing love a topic should be normal but it is not often seen in mods. You can talk with Amber about Aerie, NPCs talk with Xan or in the Crossmod Banter Pack Imoen shows her curiosity. Having Fade join that exclusive club can only be good, no matter whether she talks with the PC about Anomen or the jealous/insecure reaction if Fade cannot give up hope. It creates a feeling of a party not a collection of NPCs even though all talk with each other.

Any input is very much welcome!

Any output is equally welcome! (Oh man, that was bad, I'm sorry... really :whistling: )

Seeing the way you write your stuff you haven't lost your creativity. I still have the override folder and saves of my stoic warrior that romanced Fade years back stored somewhere. Didn't dare to bring him into ToB with a silent honeykitten. He must be jumping up and down in the archives to replay SoA with Fade. Don't want to push you, but you seem to be full of energy right now. Keep it up!

#3 --Arconian--

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 09:13 AM

Hi Miss!

I would like to see all components you mentioned in a future release :P Except for one. The Valygar romance, I do not want to be offensive or come off as an asshole who doesn't want Valy to have anyone. I've just always seen him as a solitary man, but then again I think he's capable of deep friendships with either the pc (or Mazzy :) ) . So you should probably just use your best judgement, thing is though I don't think he would like Fade's more teasing side. Ah well, as I said use your best judgement :D

#4 Mistress Elysia

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 09:30 AM

Thank you very much for your input! This is really helpful - there is no point indulging in anything people wouldn't be interested in seeing (or indeed, reading), and so it really allows me to focus upon what is important :hug:

As for Valygar - I agree with both of you with regards to him not reciprocating any of Fade's feelings. Basically, it would be that old 'he's just not that into you' chestnut - whereas Fade is definitely someone who (against all odds, considering her heritage) likes and, to a certain degree, needs company, Valygar just isn't... I envision that whilst he wouldn't be unpleasant to her, he could gently jibe her etc (I just like it when your own characters don't win / succeed in everything they strive for, hence the reason why an 'unrequited' path for a non-romancing male PC is appealing for me - it is a whole new avenue of writing not yet explored ^_^)

The Timely Resurrection of Fade!
Mistress Elysia's fantasy artwork.
Where Darkness Resides: A Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark fanfic

I want to live, I want to experience the universe and I want to eat pie.

"Oh, little ice cream friends! Thog delays boredom-driven rampage only for you!"


#5 Tempest

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 10:01 AM

It all gets my vote, though of course it does mean a lot more work for you. :)

As for the Valygar relationship-it's interesting, but if I might suggest an alternative-I think Anomen could very well work. When Fade's talked about religion and spirituality, she's always seemed like she is genuinely interested in the idea of worship and having a religion, but she simply hasn't had the crucible that would trigger her honestly having a religious experience. Anomen, who has always struggled with the issue of who or what he's living and fighting for, might very well be able to understand Fade's issues, and her problems with her [lack of] family. I know Anomen isn't the most popular guy, and a lot of people take a very negative view of him, but I believe there is some potential there.

"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


#6 RedTyga

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 10:09 AM

It all gets my vote, though of course it does mean a lot more work for you. :)

As for the Valygar relationship-it's interesting, but if I might suggest an alternative-I think Anomen could very well work. When Fade's talked about religion and spirituality, she's always seemed like she is genuinely interested in the idea of worship and having a religion, but she simply hasn't had the crucible that would trigger her honestly having a religious experience. Anomen, who has always struggled with the issue of who or what he's living and fighting for, might very well be able to understand Fade's issues, and her problems with her [lack of] family. I know Anomen isn't the most popular guy, and a lot of people take a very negative view of him, but I believe there is some potential there.


Keldorn might be a good choice for that as well. Not as a romantic interest, but on the subject of religion. I can see him trying to overcome Fade's origins and perhaps they both learn something from each other.

I can see an odd paring of Anomen and Fade with that though, and I agree that if Fade tried to pursue Valger he'd polity turn her down.

#7 DDV

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 10:26 AM

...
For non-romancing male PCs: If you let Fade down nicely / gently early on in her romance path (via a player initiated dialogue), that will kick off the male 'friendship' track. I figured, however, that just because you don't want to romance Fade, she wiil automatically not find you attractive - so I figured for non-romancing males, I might write an 'unrequited love' subplot, with a possible chance to requite it in ToB (if the player so wishes). She won't try to steal you away from your current love interest per se, but unless you are absolutely foul to her (and even then, she can't deny her heart completely), she will still initiate dialogues that might be mildly flirtatious in nature - I thought this might also give the current romance (Bioware ones only initially) a good chance to show some reaction / get jealous / be a bit insecure themselves. You know, just like in real life... Good idea? Bad idea? Indifferent idea?
...


This an interesting idea and it makes sense. Like you say, just because she is turned down initially doesn't mean her attraction to the pc would simply disappear, and on top of that the Aerie and Viconia romances in particular are under a lot of strain at the start of ToB. I think it's definately worth it to sit down and develop this idea.

Edited by DDV, 21 May 2009 - 10:28 AM.


#8 Thanatos.

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 04:34 PM

*coughabouttimeforacrossmodmethinkscough*

Oh, and also:
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Edited by Thanatos., 21 May 2009 - 04:53 PM.


#9 kiwimike

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 04:33 AM

They all sound like good ideas to me too.
A friendship track with a male PC that could become more romantic in time would be interesting, a guy's allowed to change his mind after all. Allthough, who could resist romancing Fade from the start?
Like others I think a relationship between Fade and Valygar would probably have to be unrequited.
It would be nice to see a female PC have someone they could really talk too as well.
As another possibility it would be good to see Fade develop a strong friendship with someone else in the party - maybe Imoen - who she can joke around with and confide in.

However, if I was being selfish I'd say that I'd rather see more content for the romance (especially ToB) as I can't imagine having her in the party and not romancing her.

Whatever you decide to do, given the quality we've seen so far, I know It'll be brilliant.

#10 Thanatos.

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 06:40 AM

I can't imagine having her in the party and not romancing her.

Whatever you decide to do, given the quality we've seen so far, I know It'll be brilliant.


I second that.

#11 berelinde

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 07:01 AM

Crossmod would be cool. The NPCs on my current install are Amber (which might be fun, since they're both tieflings), Hubelpot, Kivan, *cough*Haldamir*cough*, Angelo, Ajantis (BG2), and a Valen beta (another tiefling!).

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#12 Pandæmonium

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 08:12 AM

The "unrequited" bit sounds very interesting, and it's not something I've ever seen before in an IE romance. I'd probably rebuff Fade's advances in SoA just to see where that path leads. Definite thumbs up for that.

As for Valygar - I never take him in my party so I doubt I'd see it, but it sounds interesting.
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#13 --Hide and Seek--

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 12:56 PM

I figured, however, that just because you don't want to romance Fade, she wiil automatically not find you attractive - so I figured for non-romancing males, I might write an 'unrequited love' subplot, with a possible chance to requite it in ToB (if the player so wishes). She won't try to steal you away from your current love interest per se, but unless you are absolutely foul to her (and even then, she can't deny her heart completely), she will still initiate dialogues that might be mildly flirtatious in nature - I thought this might also give the current romance (Bioware ones only initially) a good chance to show some reaction / get jealous / be a bit insecure themselves. You know, just like in real life... :P Good idea? Bad idea? Indifferent idea?

I like this idea.
It would certainly be a different experience with a NPC that doesn't give up on you in a heartbeat and keeps silent about it from that moment on. Subtle flirting is just as fun in real life.

And I like moments of tension in the group. You can only have 'that' many fights against Dragons before it's becoming an everyday event.

As always, looking forward to Fade. Best of wishes.
I'm definitely going to play friendship through SoA just to get it all. :cheers: