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Varshoon - an Illithid NPC


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#21 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 12:25 AM

Oh, yes - that's final version. I was hesitating about writing ToB banters, because I don't feel the project as I did year ago (that's also reason why it won't be further developped)... however, since they are written, it would be great to see it translated!

:hug:

Edited by Lava Del'Vortel, 03 April 2011 - 12:26 AM.


#22 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 08:47 AM

3.1 - just fixed epilogue

:cheers:

#23 -Al-

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 07:54 PM

Hey Lava, I wanted to ask you if I could get some spoilers on the following:

After I fought my way to the Elder Brain in the Underdark, Varshoon took what he was looking for and left. I was rather taken by surprise by that twist, but I guessed that later he'd reappear - however, I've already completed my way through the Underdark and he's still nowhere to be seen, so where can I or will I find him again, if he's coing back at all?

Thanks in advance. I enjoyed what I was able to play quite a bit, too.

#24 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 10:11 PM

Hi!
Spoiler


#25 -Al-

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 07:33 AM

Hi!

Spoiler


But how are you aware of the influence you have on him? Most of the time I found myself clicking whatever option I thought suited the character best, but I never saw any indication of anything.

Also, this may have been a bug, but at one point very early in the game, he simply stopped having conversations with me. I thought this was something related to the chapter progression (I was in chapter 2 at the time), but even as I advanced through the rest of the game he never interacted again. It's particularly odd because he used to talk to me once every five real-time minutes. Was this also caused by lack of influence?

#26 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 10:12 AM

Every five minutes? That's a bit impossible...
However, it is possible that he dislikes you. He has only 8 timered talks, some (7-8) item-triggered talks, some (another 7-8) area-triggered... frequency of talks depends on the way you play - it depends on the items you pick up and areas you enter.
Varshoon's system of influence is really complex. almost everything you tell him can rise his opinion about you. For example if you compare illithid to githyanki...that's really bad! Those races hat eachother so you get something like -3 influence. But if you omit that reply and use "smarter one" which he would like, then you can get for example +2 influence. Even other answers in the same talk can add or lower it.
If you have really high intelligence, you will get some extra influence, if you are too good you will get influence penalty, if you traveled with Varshoon for a long time, you will also get some extra influence (he gets a bit used to you)...

...as you can see, there are a lot of ways to change influence so I can't be sure why he left you.

#27 -Al-

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 01:30 PM

I'm trying to remember what conversations I had with him. I know there were a couple regarding emotions, and one regarding the ultimate goal in the game... Dunno, there were quite a few of them. I do find it incredibly annoying to have to lose a character that late in the game - by that time most of my characters are in a level far above any other joinable NPC, you've found a certain party balance, and so on. By that point in the game, that spot is virtually irreplaceable, as any character you might add right then will be too weak to handle itself against the generally high-level encounters during the last two chapters. Even worse, for those who are playing the game explicitly for the Varshoon mod (like myself), it's a bummer to realize that you'll have to go through 75% of the game again just to finish said module, if he does not take off once more. Also, he took all of the equipment along with him, which I'm glad that involved no upgradeable items, or otherwise I would've been particularly pissed. Sorry for being somewhat harsh here, it's that I find this mechanism to be incredibly frustrating.

I trust there is no way in the game to check your influence on Varshoon?

#28 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 02:41 PM

Varshoon is a NPC who isn't a puppet - I always believed that's how NPCs should be. Varshoon is a beast after all, a monster who's interested in power. He's not traveling with you to have some fun. He is a challenging character, indeed, but that is the part of the plan. Do you think illithid would adventure with someone who didn't prove he's worth Varshoon's respect? Sorry to be blunt, but that's how illithids are. And I doubt there were bugs, because I know plenty players who finished game with the mod. There is even an article on the mod (it's in Polish, though) as a prove of it.

Influence can be checked.
CLUAConsole:GetGlobal("VxVCounter","GLOBAL")

Here are reactions:

56 and lower - he attacks you
57-65 - he will join and leave you after you defeat the brain
66 and higher (intelligence 16 or lower) - joins and quest follows as in original game
66 and higher (intelligence 17 or higher) - joins and you can leave the lair without killing the brain

#29 -Al-

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 04:22 PM

[quote name='Lava Del'Vortel' date='13 May 2011 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1305326493' post='515035']Varshoon is a NPC who isn't a puppet - I always believed that's how NPCs should be. Varshoon is a beast after all, a monster who's interested in power. He's not traveling with you to have some fun. He is a challenging character, indeed, but that is the part of the plan. Do you think illithid would adventure with someone who didn't prove he's worth Varshoon's respect? Sorry to be blunt, but that's how illithids are. And I doubt there were bugs, because I know plenty players who finished game with the mod. There is even an article on the mod (it's in Polish, though) as a prove of it.[quote]

Well, my most recent game was actually very buggy, I have no idea what made this happen. It would crash whenever you entered the Temple Ruins (any of the areas from that location), the Cult Of The Eyeless layer and, strangely enough, some very particular places within the maps of the lower crypts in the Graveyard District and Firkraag's Lair. There was some mod or another crashing with the rest of the game, and maybe that could've led to some bug or another on this mod as well - I'm just taking a wild guess, though, and I'm no modder or programmer so I have no idea about this either.

As for your NPC philosophy, I agree with your idea in theory, it's nice to have an NPC with a particular attitude and who comes at a risk for the protagonist, but this particular break is, in my mind, going a bit too far. A challenge is gratifying only if there is a way round a particular conflict, which leads us, for example, to trying to defeat some boss twenty times before finally doing so, possibly wasting hours in the process. In this case, your fate is pretty much sealed once you've gone to Spellhold, and from there on it's days of gameplay until you find that out. The challenge in this case is invisible right up to that point, and the reaction it generates from the player (or at least from me) is not "argh, that's tough, let's go back and see how to figure this out", but rather "fuck it, there go two weeks of hard work" (pardon my language). It's even worse when you consider that you're then left with a void that by that point in the game is irreplaceable, unlike a game like, say, Neverwinter Nights 2, in which characters are free to betray you (and in fact do) but the slots can be easily filled again because the NPC's not following your party are still gaining levels as you advance elsewhere - but that's not the important point anyways, because I was playing this to play with Varshoon after all.

Again, sorry if I'm being overly critical, I understand what you wanted to achieve and up to where I was able to play this mod, I was really enjoying it, I think it's a well-written and very well-balanced character, who adds a much-needed diversity to the party you can conjure up in the game. In fact, I wouldn't have spent my time writing this if I had not enjoyed it and if I did not care about seeing how this relationship between my protagonist and the illithid developed. Now that I know what to expect I'll be more careful in my interactions with this character, and hopefully I will not be forced to replay the game for a third time. ;)

[quote]Influence can be checked.
CLUAConsole:GetGlobal("VxVCounter","GLOBAL")

Here are reactions:

56 and lower - he attacks you
57-65 - he will join and leave you after you defeat the brain
66 and higher (intelligence 16 or lower) - joins and quest follows as in original game
66 and higher (intelligence 17 or higher) - joins and you can leave the lair without killing the brain
[/quote]

Thanks for this!

#30 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 11:30 PM

I understand your frustration, but in a mod like this I always consider reality of the character more important than other stuff - I mean that in this situation being an illithid is more important than giving players a puppet. The thing is that I won't change it, and not only because I am stubborn, but because I am fed up with Varshoon :P I spent a lot of time working on it. Even writing the ToB part was already annoying.

Still, if you don't agree with me, feel free to mess with my coding a bit. Just use
CLUAConsole:SetGlobal("VxVCounter","GLOBAL",70)

And use save before entering the lair.

#31 ilot

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 08:03 AM

Hi Lava,
Just to say that your "Illithid" Posted Image is translated in italian language and within 3/4 days I send you the italians file.tra.

Edited by ilot, 14 May 2011 - 08:04 AM.

Italian mods tanslator!!!!


#32 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 08:38 AM

Ok, thanks! :) :cheers:

#33 -Al-

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 05:16 PM

I understand your frustration, but in a mod like this I always consider reality of the character more important than other stuff - I mean that in this situation being an illithid is more important than giving players a puppet. The thing is that I won't change it, and not only because I am stubborn, but because I am fed up with Varshoon :P I spent a lot of time working on it. Even writing the ToB part was already annoying.

Still, if you don't agree with me, feel free to mess with my coding a bit. Just use

CLUAConsole:SetGlobal("VxVCounter","GLOBAL",70)

And use save before entering the lair.


I'll do that if I need to, but I'll try to avoid that if I can. :)

Don't worry, I know what you mean and I'm not asking you to alter anything, I was just voicing my opinion. I'm glad we have talented people like you working to expand upon this great game. Thanks for all the help and effort placed on this mod (and others)!

#34 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 01:35 AM

It's ok and it's nice to know that people still play the mod. That makes me want write more mods.

Cheers!

#35 TDouglas

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 11:59 AM

Varshoon is one of my favorite NPCs :cheers:

Thanks for the hard work!

#36 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 12:33 PM

Thank you! :blush:

#37 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 05:30 AM

Mod got an update! Now Varshoon is available in Italian language thanks to Ilot. There are also 2 additional bam files by Daulmakan. Thanks, guys! :cheers:
There is still one bug, but I have no idea how to solve it. When you kick out him the kick out dialogue doesn't appear. Instead of it there's custom kick out dialogue. If you know how to solve it, contact me.

#38 ilot

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:07 PM

Mod got an update! Now Varshoon is available in Italian language thanks to Ilot. There are also 2 additional bam files by Daulmakan. Thanks, guys! Posted Image


Thank you Lava about Varshoon in italian language Posted Image

Italian mods tanslator!!!!


#39 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 11:58 AM

I believe *I* am the one who should thank *you* :P :cheers:

#40 Lava Del'Vortel

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 06:53 AM

Small update - HLA fix thanks to lynx.
BTW, if you're using GemRB, Varshoon's race will display on character screen.